The UFO Iconoclast(s)

Wednesday, May 23, 2007

Are UFOs Inter-Dimensional or Time Travelers? Nope!

timetravel.jpg

Michio Kaku, in his book, Parallel Worlds [Doubleday, NY, 2005, Page 20] writes that civilizations trillions [sic] of years ahead of us could possibly find ways to leave their dying universe, via worm holes or black holes – time warps, and travel to other younger or warmer universes.

kaku.jpg

(Kaku’s context is our dying Universe, which is a bit in the future: trillions upon trillions of years from now.)

If civilizations require many trillions of years to develop the methods that allow the kind of travel Kaku postulates, the UFOs seen by humankind for thousands of years don’t fit an evolutionary time-line that trillions of years represents.

That is, UFOs observed and photographed (real UFOs, and there are some) do not portray advanced designs, as we’ve noted elsewhere here.

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Interstellar cultures or civilizations from other universes that have evolved – and Darwin’s theory applies, as he noted himself – to the point where they can maneuver between universes or galactic distances consisting of incalculable light-years would certainly have vehicles much more refined than what UFO observers have witnessed: chariots of fire, cigar-shaped craft, dirigible-like airships, crude flying saucers, delta-wings, et cetera.

chariotufo.jpg

So one can rule out the Kaku beings as the progenitors or occupants of UFOs.

But what about time-travelers, from our not-too-distant future or antedeluvial past?

The designs sported by the elusive UFOs do not provide evidence or encouragement that they come from Earth’s future.

They (the designs) are too prosaic and time-oriented to Earth’s historical time-lines, meaning that UFOs are steeped in aerodynamics that mimic pretty much what the aerodynamics of the time when they’ve appeared; that is, UFOs looked like balloon ships during a time when airships were under design or prominent by standards of the day, or UFOs looked like rocketships and circular craft when both were being considered by aircraft designers extant.

airship.jpg

Even if Vimanas (from the Hindu books of faith) were real, they didn’t present a vision from Earth’s far future, but what if they indicated something from Earth’s pre-geologic past?

vimana.jpg

That’s a possibility; a remote one, but a possibility nonetheless.

However, the occupants of those aircrafts from an original creation on this Earth, which somehow disappeared, don’t fit the evolutionary patterns or fossil records that exist.

UFOs from the past would have had to be designed by peoples who had reason to seek out time-travel, because the Earth was about to regenerate or they had a curiosity that belies the evolutionary time period that would allow such advanced thinking.

(Evolution from the Earth’s creation to life forming doesn’t allow a previous advanced civilization to arise before it would have been destroyed by a cataclysmic event that began the evolution we’re part of.)

For some reason or another, UFOs from other universes or parallel worlds (dimensions) doesn’t work, if Michio Kaku’s estimations are correct.

UFOs from intergalactic worlds is also problematic, but workable as an hypothesis if black holes or worm holes are considered. But the advanced design conundrum remains.

blackhole.jpg

UFOs from time – future or past – also do not resonate for the reasons cited.

So what are we left with? The continuing mystery of the phenomenon, which isn’t being seriously addressed by anyone in the so-called UFO community, despite protestations to the contrary.

15 Comments:

  • Hi
    I could'nt agree with you more unless I had written this exposition myself.
    On my blog there is a detail from a painting that is not subject to a variety of guesses as to what it may be. It is a very old painting.
    The opposite is true of the UFO community which creates a frustration with the fact that no one looking at the big picture and everyone is mired in their pet swamp of distracted, minute details.
    Although my view is focused more on the philosophic and metaphysical aspects ( which have been ignored) I dont believe for a second that this paints a complete picture. It does help, at least I hope so, to prompt some to get out of their narrow world views which is a part of the problem.
    As always,
    Best Regards

    Bruce D

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Thursday, May 24, 2007  

  • Bruce:

    We (you and us) are of like minds about most things UFO related (and cosmological (see our RRRGroup blog).

    UFO Paradigm Probe (linked here), your blog, makes erudite points that every UFO aficionado should read.

    Your expositions about the UFO phenomenon are not only astute but much more thorough than almost all others, including our own.

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, May 24, 2007  

  • When it comes to the UFO phenomena you really cannot dismiss any scenario since we have nothing substantial to go on except speculation.
    UFOs have an annoying habit of being very chameleon-like and never showing a true face. Five hundred years ago when someone saw a UFO or a strange being associated with that UFO, it was a fairy or a demon or an angel. The being would even verbally confirm it and take the witness to an underground fairy kingdom, or heaven or hell.
    Today, we are treated to little gray aliens who claim to be from a nearby star system. Five hundred years from now will we be experiencing the same phenomenon that has taken on a new role to fit with the times?
    The UFO phenomenon is real. It just refuses to be easily pigeon-holed.

    Thanks!
    Tim S.

    By Blogger Tim, at Thursday, May 24, 2007  

  • Tim:

    You are exactly correct.

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, May 24, 2007  

  • Certainly this article touches an important subject. Unfortunately, the author relies on popular books - such as that by Michi Kaku - which is not where laymen should learn about physics and the universe. It is impossible to know what is really going on without talking to many top scientists and participating in their conferences and their "fights" over these interesting topics.

    Since my husband is one of the world's leading experts on hyperdimensional physics (but not an author of a popular book), I have asked him to assist me in analyzing the main statements in this article with the results that follow.

    The UFO Iconoclast(s) write:
    Michio Kaku, in his book, Parallel Worlds [Doubleday, NY, 2005, Page 20] writes that civilizations trillions [sic] of years ahead of us could possibly find ways to leave their dying universe, via worm holes or black holes – time warps, and travel to other younger or warmer universes.

    [Comment: Michio Kaku is just one of thousands of theoretical physicists. Some of these physicists would agree on some points, some other strongly disagree. Some of these physicists propose theories that explains facts that current paradigm can not explain. Some consider special and general relativity as wrong. Therefore quoting Kaku as an authority in a controversial subject is a mistake]

    The UFO Iconoclast(s) write: If civilizations require many trillions of years to develop the methods that allow the kind of travel Kaku postulates, the UFOs seen by humankind for thousands of years don’t fit an evolutionary time-line that trillions of years represents.

    [Comment: The sentence starts with an “if”. And what if NOT? And even if “if” holds, then the conclusion is non sequitur. Why? Because we do not know what will be the evolutionary time-line in the next hundreds of years. What about trillions? The rate of evolution may itself evolve. Faster in one area, slower in another area. Progress in certain respect, and evolve into something totally unpredictable in another.]

    The UFO Iconoclast(s) write: That is, UFOs observed and photographed (real UFOs, and there are some) do not portray advanced designs, as we’ve noted elsewhere here.

    [Comment: UFOs observed and photographed may well be “projections” from hyperdimensional realms - not the “real things”. Thus another argument fails.]

    The UFO Iconoclast(s) write: Interstellar cultures or civilizations from other universes that have evolved – and Darwin’s theory applies, as he noted himself – to the point where they can maneuver between universes or galactic distances consisting of incalculable light-years would certainly have vehicles much more refined than what UFO observers have witnessed: chariots of fire, cigar-shaped craft, dirigible-like airships, crude flying saucers, delta-wings, et cetera.

    [Comment: again “ and Darwin’s theory applies, as he noted himself” - as if Kaku was an authoritative expert in the domain of evolution. He isn’t. See above.]

    The UFO Iconoclast(s) write: So one can rule out the Kaku beings as the progenitors or occupants of UFOs.

    [Comment: In fact, nothing has been ruled out in reality. It has been ruled out only in the mind of the author of this article]

    The UFO Iconoclast(s) write: But what about time-travelers, from our not-too-distant future or antedeluvial past?

    The designs sported by the elusive UFOs do not provide evidence or encouragement that they come from Earth’s future.

    [Comment: The author suggests by the above that he himself is a time-traveller. How else can he know anything about “our not-too-distant-future? When a revolution, a change in a paradigm, comes, many of our concepts change dramatically. Once upon a time people believed that the earth was flat and supported by turtles upon turtles. Once upon a time people believed that the Earth is at the center of the universe. What if the next dramatic revolution will come in the next five years?]

    The UFO Iconoclast(s) write: They (the designs) are too prosaic and time-oriented to Earth’s historical time-lines, meaning that UFOs are steeped in aerodynamics that mimic pretty much what the aerodynamics of the time when they’ve appeared; that is, UFOs looked like balloon ships during a time when airships were under design or prominent by standards of the day, or UFOs looked like rocketships and circular craft when both were being considered by aircraft designers extant.

    [Comment: Again the author neglects the facts that a higher civilization (whatever it means) may need to use a disguise and/or projection in order to “communicate” or to “experiment” with a lower civilization. There may be many possible reasons for such a disguise. Their safety, our safety, “their interests” or “our interests”.]


    The UFO Iconoclast(s) write: Even if Vimanas (from the Hindu books of faith) were real, they didn’t present a vision from Earth’s far future, but what if they indicated something from Earth’s pre-geologic past?

    [Comment: Is that all that the author is able to imagine? What if Vimanas were projections adapted to the level of Hindus?]

    The UFO Iconoclast(s) write: That’s a possibility; a remote one, but a possibility nonetheless.

    However, the occupants of those aircrafts from an original creation on this Earth, which somehow disappeared, don’t fit the evolutionary patterns or fossil records that exist.

    [Comments: Here the author assumes that there were “occupants”. What is this assumption based on? The “occupants” may have been specially designed robots. There are other possibilities as well.]

    The UFO Iconoclast(s) write: UFOs from the past would have had to be designed by peoples who had reason to seek out time-travel, because the Earth was about to regenerate or they had a curiosity that belies the evolutionary time period that would allow such advanced thinking.

    [Comment: Again the author pretends that he knows something for sure about “peoples from the past.” What do we know for sure about Atlantis and its inhabitants?]

    The UFO Iconoclast(s) write: (Evolution from the Earth’s creation to life forming doesn’t allow a previous advanced civilization to arise before it would have been destroyed by a cataclysmic event that began the evolution we’re part of.)

    [Comments: Here the author assumes that he knows all about the prehistory of Mars, Moon, Venus and possibly other, now non-existing planets of our system.]

    The UFO Iconoclast(s) write: For some reason or another, UFOs from other universes or parallel worlds (dimensions) doesn’t work, if Michio Kaku’s estimations are correct.

    [Comments: Michio Kaku is simply not able to estimate any such thing with any proven reliability. He may also be making working hypotheses with unknown probabilities of being correct.]

    The UFO Iconoclast(s) write: UFOs from intergalactic worlds is also problematic, but workable as an hypothesis if black holes or worm holes are considered. But the advanced design conundrum remains.

    [Comment: Even without black holes and worm holes intergalactic travel can be possible with velocities faster than light (tachyons etc.). There may be other ways, for instance using quantum jumps.]

    The UFO Iconoclast(s) write: UFOs from time – future or past – also do not resonate for the reasons cited.

    [Comment: To say “do not resonate” in an article that claims a certain scientific bent is surprising. What does not resonate for one person may resonate perfectly for another person.]

    The UFO Iconoclast(s) write: So what are we left with? The continuing mystery of the phenomenon, which isn’t being seriously addressed by anyone in the so-called UFO community, despite protestations to the contrary.

    [Comment: Assigning someone to “the so-called UFO community” is purely subjective. Is Jacques Valee ( www.nidsci.org/pdf/vallee_davis.pdf ) in the UFO community?

    The real problem with UFOs is not that we are not able to propose theories able to explain the available data but that there are not enough of reliable hard data for eliminating all but one such a theory.]

    [For more information about hyperdimensional realities, you may enjoy listening an interview on the subject on BBC Radio. The subject is my book "The Secret History of the World" which covers this subject in depth. It is my opinion after 35 years of research that the hyperdimensional explanation is "The Most Dangerous Idea in the World.]

    Finally, we very much admire the open-minded and yet skeptical approach of this website, and would welcome further communication.

    By Blogger Laura Knight Jadczyk, at Saturday, May 26, 2007  

  • LKJ:

    Thanks for your brilliant counter to our rumination(s).

    Yes, the lines of communication are open, and we'll apply some responses (maybe even agreements) to your erudite rejoinder upcoming.

    Thanks for the thoughtful and civilized comments

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Saturday, May 26, 2007  

  • It's nice to bring some actual science to the table. Speaking of, Dolan's tome, UFOs and the National Security State, is a very objective work on the phenomenon. He covers, in details, sightings and the governments response from 1941-1973.

    I never liked Kaku for the reasons LJK pointed out, he assumes too much - what indeed do we know?

    Verrrrry interesting stuff.

    By Blogger cyregray, at Sunday, May 27, 2007  

  • Thanks cyregray,

    You might take a look at our other blog -- http://rrrgroup.blogspot.com

    We'd be interested in your take on it.

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, May 27, 2007  

  • I read Laura's comments in regard to her husbands views with great interest.May I ask who he is? This positioning of this perspective from the viewpoint of theoretical physics while certainly important one reminds me of a variant of the blind men and the elephant. By the way I am also one of these blind men. A physicist will see through the color of physics, the metaphysician sees it through metaphysics, engineers see engineering. What we are looking at is a clear liquid akin to truth, the vessel it is contained within colors it. I suspect none of us are correct and I look forward to being surprised.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Sunday, May 27, 2007  

  • Maybe, Bruce, Laura will tell us more about her husband, but we think she can hold her own.

    Some of her comments fascinate.

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, May 27, 2007  

  • I agree on all counts. It was difficult to discern what her own theory or perspective is. I am interested in the fact that if he is a leading scientist and has an interest or open minded approach to the topic, it certainly would be interesting to know more. I did not mean to infer she was incapable of holding her own. I apologise for that slip of the keyboard. Sometimes telegraphing thoughts by internet leads to inept communication. I plead guilty. Hopefully she will return and flesh this out. As far as refuting your editorial views, I was more impressed by her open mindedness toward the possibilities in this situation. I do not know enough about her views to have an opinion one way or another. I am naturally wary of folks who have a book to sell but thats my own admitted bias that comes from my own largely negative experiences in that dynamic.

    I was just on the UFO Media Matters site and the video shot by the police car camera is equally fascinating. In a word, impressive.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Sunday, May 27, 2007  

  • Bruce,

    Some of us heading right over to Bob's Media Matters blog....we have to see that police video!

    Laura's rejoinder(s) intrigue but we also wonder why Kaku is dismissed....he seems open to mystical elements of reality and the Universe.

    We like his approach, and writing.

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, May 28, 2007  

  • "Michio Kaku is just one of thousands of theoretical physicists. Some of these physicists would agree on some points, some other strongly disagree. Some of these physicists propose theories that explains facts that current paradigm can not explain. Some consider special and general relativity as wrong. Therefore quoting Kaku as an authority in a controversial subject is a mistake."

    Perhaps she was referring to the lack of a consensus, but who is an authority and who is not when no one knows the answer? How do you define authority..authorisation from whom for what? Frankly, it all boils down to a form of existential subjectivity in interesting versus uninteresting opinion in the eye of the beholder who deems or denies it any value. Perhaps there is a general theory of relativity when it comes to opinion on the paranormal. As far as I am concerned no one is an exclusive authority on UFOs unless they certify themselves, which is silly..Personally I find him to be a humane intelligent person with an interesting point of view. Then again..I am not an authority on Kaku. I enjoy his books.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Monday, May 28, 2007  

  • I was curious about Lauras views as she mentioned on my blog that she has one of her own.She was going to respond there instead of here.
    As of this morning, she has'nt responded.
    I decided to "google" her full name.
    In some quarters, she is considered a very controversial person.
    She is known as having "channeled" grey aliens in a trance.
    I also looked up her husband, "one of the worlds leading experts on hyperdimension physics."
    Very interesting stuff. I was rather surprised.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Wednesday, May 30, 2007  

  • YOU PEOPLE MAY NOT UNDERSTAND ME BUT WE ARE THE SO CALLED ALIENS ITS US IN THE FUTURE WE ARE THE TIME TRAVELERS

    HAVENT YOU NOTICED HOW EVERY TIME YOU SEE A VIDEO OF A UFO THEY ALWAYS SEEM TO LEAVE SO FAST ITS BECAUSE IF THE ALIENS(US) WERE TO COMMUNICATE WITH US WE WOULD BE ALTERING TIME

    HUMANS WILL BE ABLE TO TIME TRAVEL IT HAS BEEN SAID THAT IF WE TRAVEL AT A SPEED FASTER THEN LIGHT WE COULD TAKE A TRIP IN TIME
    HOWEVER I DONT THINK WE COULD TRAVEL BACK IN TIME BUT I AM SURE WE CAN TRAVEL INTO THE FUTURE

    WE WERE MENT FOR MUCH MORE THEN JUST REPRODUCTION

    IF YOU DONT BEALIVE ME TAKE A LOOK YOUR SELF JUST LOOK AT VIDEOS OF UFO'S
    AND THINK ABOUT HOW FAST OUR TECHNOLOGY IS INCREASING IN POWER AND SMARTS

    By Blogger scroopy, at Saturday, April 19, 2008  

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