The UFO Iconoclast(s)

Monday, May 11, 2009

THE NAZI UFO LIE by Anthony Bragalia

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A very disturbing theme recurs from time to time in the UFO literature. Some maintain that Nazi scientists had perfected advanced aerial craft including "flying saucers" - both in Germany during WWII and as captured "Paperclip" scientists in the US. This supposed Nazi technology is seen by these "researchers" as the genesis of early man-made UFOs. Even now it is seen by some as the reason for today's state-of-the-art "Dreamland" flying machines- or even as the true cause of the Roswell crash!

This lie has been repeated in many books and magazines from the very beginning of the UFO phenomena. It continues even now with the publication of material from authors such as Martin Cannon, Nick Redfern, Nick Cook, William Lyne, Michael Heiser, Mark Ian Birdsall, Joseph Farrell and David Hatcher Childress.

The belief that secret Nazi UFO technologies existed during WWII -and that the US took these technologies to develop further- is as unsettling as it is untrue. "Nazi UFOs" have been proposed by some on numerous websites and in such books as "The Facade," "Pentagon Space Aliens," "The Hunt for Zero Point," "Man-Made UFOs" and "Hitler's Flying Saucers." They elevate Nazi scientific know-how to a level that it does not deserve.

DISCOVERED- THE FIRST MENTION OF "NAZI UFOS"

I believe that I have found the "original impetus" for such nonsense...

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Incredibly, in 1947 (the very year of the beginning of the modern UFO era) a fictional book entitled Rocket Ship Galileo authored by German-American Robert A. Heinlein, unquestionably "set the stage" for all future books and theories about Nazi saucers.

In this sci-fi novel, three teenagers work with their uncle, a "Dr. Cargraves," to construct a spaceship to go to the moon. The boys land on the Moon only to discover that the Nazis have already arrived! When the teens locate a secret Nazi lunar base, they discover wonderous technology. The boys and their uncle somehow overcome the Nazis and pilot the Nazi spaceship (which was of course was more advanced than the one developed by the American teens and their uncle) back to Earth. Every element of Nazi and Operation Paperclip saucer myth is set forth in this book. The idea that the Nazis had perfected advanced craft -and that we retrieved this technology- is a featured theme in the novel. It is one that is repeated to this very day.

The first known mention of the Nazi-UFO connection presented as non-fiction appeared in a March 30, 1950 article in the German tabloid, Der Spiegel. It continued with a series of 1950s "Police Gazette" neo-Nazi stories. In the 1960s strange books by authors such as Renato Vesco and "Michael X. Barton" -with titles like "The German Saucer Story" - made their way on book shelves.The idea that somewhere, someone is continuing the line of secret black projects the Nazis had initiated- is at the crux of these books and theories. Some of these theories are frightening in that they point to the supposed "reality" of a surviving "Third Power" of former Nazis.

Frauds such as "contactee" George Adamski put forth the concept of aliens of distinctly "Aryan" stock. Idealized as tall, blonde and blue-eyed, these aliens were human and possessed advanced technological wonders. The obvious connection between the idea of German-like superiority and Flying Saucers was again emblazoned upon the public psyche. In his book Messengers of Deception, author Jacques Vallee noted the connections between early contactees (such as George Hunt Williamson) and American Nazism. Such "German influence" is seen even today with reports of interactions with "Nordic" aliens.

Less troubling (but finding its origin from the same cesspool) is the notion that captured German scientists collaborated with US scientists to test-fly advanced or novel "gliders" and "balloon craft" at our bases in New Mexico. It is said that such aerial black experiments -designed by Germans and using captured Japanese or even deformed children- accounts for the crash at Roswell. Books such as Nick Redfern's "Body Snatchers in the Desert" promote this idea.

World War II is an historical period that has received more attention than any other. The focus of what happened has always been on the German's- their reprehensible experiments and their inhumane ways. But the history of Nazi Saucers just does not exist in mainstream history. Rather, such ideas rely on claims without proof, extreme right-wingers and on the profit motives of unscrupulous writers and publishers of the sensational.

From the beginning people speculated about the origin of the unidentified objects flying in our skies. In 1950, it perhaps made sense to consider that the technological achievements of the Nazis may have included the development of such saucers- but it makes no sense in 2009.

When carefully examined, we find that "Nazi UFOs" simply never existed. Every photograph presented on websites and books of such craft are faked with models, photoshops or artistic renderings. Others are misidentified, prosaic objects. And in every case where a German "saucer scientist" is identified- we find that the "scientist" did not exist- or was a false claimant.

REASONS FOR NAZI UFO BELIEFS

When we look at the people who promote such theories- we find that their beliefs are rooted in one of two reasons:

1) Anti-semitism or pro-Nazi sympathies; or just the opposite-
2) A continued hatred and fear of the evil experiments conducted by Nazis in remote locations

Those who are motivated by the first reason promote fantasies such as an "escaped Hitler" residing in Antartica and building Flying Saucers- or even that ET itself teamed with the Reich on how to construct such craft. Other, more occult fantasies (relating often to the "Thule Society" or the "Black Sun" group) associate Nazis with rituals and rites that led them to contact with mysterious "dark powers" that directed them on how to construct advanced aerials.

Those motivated by the second reason promote the fantasies of continued flight experiments on US soil by captured Nazi scientists of unusual or advanced aircraft using unwitting or unwilling passengers. In both cases though, there is a certain "elevation" of Nazi achievement over our own capabilities. But it is an advantage that simply never existed. Fake photos, fraudulent science, and lying or misguided witnesses and authors are at the heart of such beliefs:

FAKE PHOTOS

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Famous rendition of a Nazi UFO is the "Schauberger" UFO. It is in reality a Water Turbine.

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"The Bell" or "Die Glocke" is promoted by British aviation writer Nick Cook as a test rig for Nazi anti-gravity saucers. It is actually the frame for a Cooling Tower! Wider shot photos reveal a conventional power plant nearby.

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One example of several (usually blurry) "artistic renderings" or photoshops depicting supposed Nazi saucers

FRAUDULENT SCIENCE

German scientists who engineered such Nazi saucer craft (with names like Meithe, Schauberger, Schriever and Habermohl) fail utterly to check out. They either never existed or they were not the engineering technologists that they claimed to be, but simply theorist "wannabes."

Others who were real engineers, such as the German "Horten Brothers," are implicated by some as having developed strange "flying wings." In actuality, the US had possessed at the time far superior designs than the Hortens for all-wing, wingless, delta-wing and wedge-craft aerial vehicles.

One of the brothers wrote to the president of Northrop Aircraft in the late 1940s asking if he could come to work for them. He was rebuffed because Horten had nothing to offer that we didn't already have. Historical documents show that both Northrop and the US military thought the Hortons "odd" and off-base when it came to things that fly. Even Russia ignored them.

ROSWELL AND THE NAZI-TERRESTRIAL CONNECTION MYTH

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Author Nick Redfern carries this myth-torch today. Initially Mr. Redfern's thesis seems compelling- it even did to me. Closer examination though reveals huge flaws. In his book Body Snatchers in the Desert (and on his blogs) Mr. Redfern perpetuates the idea that German scientists (captured by us after WWII during Operation Paperclip) continued their heinous human experiments. This time though, it is in the form of sickening, secret test flights under the direction of US government personnel at New Mexico bases and national labs. Mr. Redfern maintains that this is the likely cause of the Roswell crash.

In Mr. Redfern's world, even after the war -and on US soil- the evil Nazis continued to toil on strange craft and to conduct heinous human experimentation in remote locations. The "fear of Nazis" meme is continued- even after the Reich was conquered and the war criminals were captured. And this meme sounds suspiciously like others that tell of "continued Nazi activity," but instead in other remote locations like Antartica.

Mr. Redfern's book's subtitle is very telling- "The Horrible Truth at the Heart of the Roswell Story." It reflects the continuing fear that our government experiments with its citizens. Of course, our government had indeed conducted -and now admitted to- horrible radiation tests, tests using LSD, tests on the retarded and worse. But Mr. Redfern goes one further by adding a "captured Nazi engineers" twist. He cobbles together a speculative scenario that attempts to show an unholy collusion between Paperclip scientists and US scientists.

Like similar authors before him, Redfern has yet to produce even a single official document or genuine photo to make such a direct connection. Instead -like similar authors before him- he props his thesis with information from discredited researchers like Timothy Cooper, faked film like the Alien Autopsy and anonymous testimony from people that he did not discover, but who approached him- people like "Mr. Levine, "The Colonel" and "The Black Widow."

He identifies by name only a couple of (third-hand) sources, William "Bill" Slater of the US Psychology Strategy Board in the early 1950s, and Alan "Al" Barker, formerly with the US Army Psychological Warfare Center, also during the early 1950s. We have yet to be offered proof of their existence and military station. Even years since the book's publication- they have curiously failed to come forward (or, to my knowledge- to be talked to by anyone at all other than Mr. Redfern.) This itself is damning to his theory. Whenever I discover a potentially valuable "witness" to Roswell or the UFO phenomena, I most always contact another researcher so that he or she can confirm my reporting.

Mr. Redfern believes that small, diseased or deformed Japanese from the notorius Unit 731 were brought to America by the US military to continue biological and flight experimentation on them. As an insightful Amazon reviewer wrote of Redfern's tome, Nick "reveals his confusion regarding the differences between Japanese people and alien bodies. Surely after five years of fighting the Japanese, any witness would know the difference between a physically handicapped Japanese person and an extraterrestrial."

Mr. Redfern does not seem to understand the history of flight. Well-conditioned, normal-sized adult men were used to test flight extremes. Using diseased or deformed midgets or those with otherwise compromised constitutions makes no sense- and would provide meaningless data. These are simply not the types of people that would be used because the results of their flights would not provide the kind of information relevant to healthy, real-world pilots or passengers.

Recently on his blog Mr. Redfern has been reduced to citing the writings of one "Kathy Kasten" to support his thesis. Ms. Kasten maintains that she was literally "guided by voices in her head" to find proof that Roswell was a secret terrestrial experiment. Kathy also believes that she was "irradiated" by the CIA and her by own father. Though her writings today on the subject are less delusional, she continues to relate false histories on the subject in publications such as the appropriately named Paranoia magazine, which Mr. Redfern recommends reading.

Mr. Redfern's deformed version of the Paperclip program ignores that the operation's noble aim was to grab the best German researchers -like Werner Von Braun- to use for what the Germans were really good at- Rocketry. This led to the Apollo programs and moon landings. These misleading "revisionist" assertations on aeronautics find their roots in good ole' rockets!

THE TRUTH

The Roswell crash -and the UFO phenomena- have nothing whatsoever to do with German innovation or experimentation. Instead, they represent a technology designed not by Nazis -or even by Mankind. The truth is that they speak to a science so advanced that it is altogether Unearthly.

15 Comments:

  • Your view is supported by the diligent research of Keith Chester in his book STRANGE COMPANY
    Military Encounters with UFOs in World War II.
    http://www.anomalistbooks.com/chester.html

    By Blogger Patrick, at Monday, May 11, 2009  

  • Tony:

    Interesting post. I will comment with respect to those areas that relate to my Body Snatchers in the Desert book.

    You state: "Redfern has yet to produce even a single official document or genuine photo to make such a direct connection."

    That's true. But, in the same vein, not a "single official document or genuine photo" has ever surfaced that confirms aliens crashed at Roswell.

    So, if this issue is problematic re the data related to me, it has to be considered problematic re the ET angle too - and also for Mogul, the crash test dummies, and everything else.

    Yes, it's quite true (and I have never denied) that the people I spoke with approached me, rather than the other way around.

    I can't say for certain that they have "never" come forward (before or since my book was published) to speak with anyone aside from me.

    However, I can say for certain that aspects of the story in my book were told to other researchers and publications before me, or before my book was published.

    Indeed, if there had *never* been an occasion when aspects of the story had surfaced before, I would have been highly suspicious. But aspects of the story *have* surfaced before.

    As I'm sure you know, Popular Mechanics magazine stated it was told in 1997 of a then-forthcoming release of documents that would tell of the Japanese angle for Roswell.

    Could PM's info have come from anyone I spoke with? Yes, certainly it could have.

    Keith Basterfield (a now-retired Australian researcher) openly told me that he had been given the same story as me - but around 6 months BEFORE Body Snatchers was even published (which would have put the account told to him in around December 2004).

    And the scenario was the same: high-altitude balloon flights, handicapped people etc.

    Also: as you may know, I have never denied (and you can find my posts on the following in the archive sections at UFO Updates) I could have been deceived and blatantly lied to.

    I don't *think* I was lied to. But can I ever deny that as a possibility. Nope, not at all.

    For example, in one of the UFO Updates posts, I cited one incident where I was able to see the credit card (on a restaurant table) of one of the interviewees.

    I said (and today still say) this could either be evidence that his name was real, or that it was a fake, but placed on the table in a deliberate position where it was easy for me to see it.

    You also state: "Whenever I discover a potentially valuable 'witness' to Roswell or the UFO phenomena, I most always contact another researcher so that he or she can confirm my reporting."

    And there's nothing wrong with that. But all it means really is that you and me follow a different approach of research.

    Bear in mind that the nature of the interviews (again, much of the following is highly abbreviated but can be found at UFO Updates) was very much cloak-and-dagger, in restaurants, and under their terms and specifications - not mine.

    Plus, given the controversial nature of the accounts they were relating, my view was that putting the data out there (or sharing it) before I felt I had gone just about as far as a I could with it, would be premature.

    I think it's incorrect to say I have been "reduced" to citing Kathy Kasten's writings.

    The reality is that I have a blog that details the latest data that may be relevant to my book.

    In her latest writing, Kathy dug deep into the history of the New Mexico-based Fort Stanton, and which she discusses re the "bodies" angle.

    So, rather than being "reduced" to referring to Kathy's writings, I cited it because it had relevance to the book.

    Indeed, when I have posted this comment, I will be doing a post at my Body Snatchers blog on your post right here - because it's relevant to the book.

    So, if *anyone* posts anything that is relevant to the book, I will (providing I see it, of course) post it at my blog, via a link.

    But I don't interpret that as being "reduced" to posting things from whoever. Rather, I'm just covering all the commentaries/info.

    There is also the new data that is published in my chapter on "post-Body Snatchers" in the new volume (3) of Greg Taylor's "Darklore.

    The "Darklore" chapter includes FOIA files I have uncovered on the death of a young boy in Lincoln County, NM (home to the Foster Ranch, of course).

    The boy was bitten by a rat, and taken to nearby Fort Stanton (where, interestingly Japanese people were held in WW2).

    His condition deteriorated and he died. A large file on the case was opened by the FBI that was titled "Plague."

    The file on the boy's death was shared with none other than (a) the Director of Naval Intelligence; (b) the Air Force’s Director of Special Investigations; (c) the Director of the CIA; and (d) the Acting Director of the Division of Security of the Atomic Energy Commission.

    Additional, early-to-mid 1950s FBI documentation declassified at an official level reveals retrospective suspicions that the outbreak in the late 40s in Lincoln County (and the boy's death) may have been due to the Hantavirus, which was first recognised by Western medicine during the Korean War in the early 1950s.

    More notable is the fact that a discussion took place in 1950 between elements of the FBI and biological warfare experts at Camp Detrick [renamed Fort Detrick in 1956], Maryland to determine if, during the Second World War, none other than Japan’s Unit 731 was working on biological warfare programmes that could have been "delivered by balloon" in…yes, you guessed it right…Lincoln County, New Mexico, and which could have led to the "plague" that killed the boy.

    I don't claim to have all the answers; but for official FOIA documents to surface 4 years after my book was published, and that posit a link between Unit 731 and activity at "Roswell Central" (namely Lincoln County) suggests to me that somewhere within the murky mess known as Roswell there is some form of Japanese connection - and a somewhat dark connection, too.

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Monday, May 11, 2009  

  • Like similar authors before him, Redfern has yet to produce even a single official document or genuine photo to make such a direct connection.I could - and would - say the same about you and the myriad Roswell-as-ET mythmakers. As the commericial used to say, "where's the beef". In other words, where is the proof?

    As for the Nazis, you pooh-pooh the American government's involvement with former war criminals far too easily. Von Braun is just one example - who do you think provided the labour at Peenemunde, and do you think that Van Braun was unaware of what was going on? Google the name "Reinhard Gehlen" and see what you find. The Gehlen Organization employed hundreds of ex-Nazis, among them Alois Brunner, who was responsible for the Drancy internment camp near Paris, and was responsible for the death of 140,000 Jews. The CIA turned a blind eye, and indeed actively participated in some cases, because of the exigencies of the Cold War. According to Robert Wolfe, historian at the US National Archives, "US army intelligence accepted Reinhard Gehlen's offer to furnish alleged expertise on the Red Army — and was bilked by the many mass murderers he hired."

    This is the primary problem with UFO "researchers" - they have no idea of what was really going on, or the context of the times in which the events they discuss need to be placed.

    PK

    By Blogger Paul Kimball, at Monday, May 11, 2009  

  • I agree with Tony Bragalia that the Nazi UFO 'connection' is garbage. As to Nick Redfern's 'Japanese connection' with Roswell, the absence of any official documentation after 6 decades ought to be enough to discount this idea. We seem to forget that in 1995 the GAO did conduct a search for all documents relating to the Roswell 'crash' and turned up precisely nothing. This search was intended to cover anything and everything relevant to the 'crash'. I contend that the same arguments used against the ET thesis (total lack of paper trail, hardware & bodies even after 6 decades) can be used to discount the Japanese connection, at least in respect of the paper trail.

    There comes a time when we as interested individuals have to use plain commonsense and rational thinking regarding these far out claims. But I realise that this does not go down well with everyone, especially those who want to perpetrate mysteries or have extremist views. And having said my 'words of wisdom', and not having read either of Nick's (Cook or Redfern) books, I decline to comment further.

    By Blogger cda, at Monday, May 11, 2009  

  • There is one other aspect of my "Body Snatchers" book that is worth commenting on re the whole "Nazi Saucer" angle - namely, that although my sources asserted that such craft existed, they were nothing like the type of things depicted in a lot of other "Nazi UFO" books.

    For example, in my book, I state the following concerning the testimony of Al Barker:

    "In mid-1947, according to Barker, White Sands test flew three unusual-looking aircraft: one of these was of an almost classic flying saucer design that was recovered in a semi-constructed state from a German weapons factory in 1945; and two were prototype vehicles built in the United States that Barker, too, perceptively, describes as “half-moon” in shape or “like a shoe heel bent out of shape,” and that were based upon the designs of the Horten brothers of Germany."

    I then quote Barker stating the following:

    "Now, if you hear that we were flying fantastic machines at speeds of thousands of miles an hour that the Nazis had designed, you’re wrong. That’s not true at all. These were saucer-like but more like an ellipse and they certainly did not fly around the States at thousands of miles an hour. Hell, you think we would be building bombers and missiles if we had that technology? But, sure, we had a few tests of these aircraft and several crashes, aborted take-offs, failed landings. We just could not get these things stable."

    In other words, Barker states that there were a couple of tests of German craft, but all were pretty much useless and unstable.

    And (also as per the above-quote) Barker openly derides the idea that the US had acquired Nazi Saucer teshnology that could fly at fantastic speeds etc.

    Unlike nearly all Nazi saucer books in print, my sources actually suggest the Nazi legends were massively distorted - and the vehicles were pretty much useless.

    Another source states re the Japanese experimentation angle:

    "You have got to realize this is early days – nearly sixty years ago – and a lot of this was people not really knowing what the hell they were doing and just coming up with dip-shit ideas and hoping for the best."

    Once again, this is not evidence of some high-tech op, but of experiments that ultimately were shown to be of little worth at all.

    Indeed, everyone I spoke with was unanimous that the Japanese experiments were of no scientific worth (again stressing the "dipshit" angle), and everything was destroyed.

    So, in conclusion, none of this is indicative of some sort of op to suggesting the existence of some super-advanced Nazi Saucer superiority.

    Rather, the scenario given to me is of a series of pretty sordid failures: hardly what the pro-Nazi Saucer champions want to hear and spread.

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Monday, May 11, 2009  

  • Although no one ever knows the whole truth about what did and what did not happen in the past, I also believe that all things written about secret nazi ufo technology are mystic exaggerations or simply made-up stories by people favouring the idea of a super-powered third reich...
    But I also believe that there is at least SOME truth in all these stories. For example, it is a fact that captured nazi scientists played a big part in the development of the american space program. And with those scientists,
    a lot of their work was brought to america, too (like the "V2"-rocket, for example). Concernig the Horten Brothers, even if they were finally refused to work with, please compare
    Kenneth Arnold's sketch of the flying objects he saw in 1947 with
    pictures of an experimental aircraft called "Horten Ho 229". In my eyes, Arnold's space crafts were
    rather man-made objects....
    nevertheless, I think that stories about nazi saucers are nothing else then mountains made out of molehills.

    By Blogger Jean-Jacques Terreur, at Tuesday, May 12, 2009  

  • Was Von Braun a War criminal? New Documentary film

    Please share my new documentary about Von Braun at this link to Part one

    THE LOST VON BRAUN part one- intro
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxiJJS5W65A&feature=channel_page

    THE LOST VON BRAUN part Two is the most dramatic,
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kxUe64-w_M&feature=channel

    The filmmaker shows a former Nazi Slave an interview with a retired NASA Employee,and ex-Nazi…who claims the slaves “ate well”.

    By Blogger realitysurfer, at Wednesday, May 13, 2009  

  • Personally, I find the Nazi/UFO connection to be as unlikely as you but, with that being said, the subject of unidentified aerial phenomenon can probably still withstand the theory.

    (After following all of this for what is now well over 30 years, I can tell you that the average Joe on the street doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of making sense of it anyway.)

    As it has been since Roswell, interest will be kept alive by those who can read around, if not through the information glut, until someday when whatever it is all about becomes so bloody apparent that we'll start writing books about all those things that it is not.

    By Blogger Mike, at Wednesday, May 27, 2009  

  • I respectfully suggest that Mr. (Brag)alia check further into his own perception and while doing so, investigate a 'synchronistically' written book entitled "The Black Sun - Montauk's Nazi/Tibetan Connection". If this publication becomes added to his list of so-called discernment then we all must acquiesce to he being a supreme all-knowing god of what? I'll expect this to be fully moderated, and NOT included in the discussion. I'll immediately convey such to many benign, effective researchers whom A.B.(and many other prominents) hasn't the foggiest notion about. I speak of researchers I am in synch with who will 'bring up the tail-end' to truth, so to speak, when the timing for ALL TO BE REVEALED is appropriate. So to A.B. and his clique, you'll be one of the last to know what I know. You'll immediately/typically take this as an affront. YOU are responsible for such a common example of typical perception, not myself. When truth is delivered, darkness fades. This comment has already been linked worldwide on the Net even before it appears here so . . . moderate away!

    By Blogger John Webster, at Sunday, June 07, 2009  

  • John Webster is correct.

    This is clearly a disinformation piece by an amatuer 'pen for hire'. So desperate are the 'only aliens drive UFO's' crowd to deny the very real, man made, zero-point energy and anti-gravity devices (all relying I might add on the theory of gravitational harmonics as espoused by Johannes Kepler), that they will publish the most the turgid of pieces to deny the idea that the Nazi's (and others of human origin) actually develeped functional anti-gravity technology.

    Of course, we understand your position is vital to ensuring that when they do reveal the 'alien' presence' the world will fall down appropriatley and worship these beings as superior gods - the raison detre of the NWO agenda. The sheeple non the wiser that they are the victims of a massive shell game designed to create a manufactured, vastly depopulated, future reality.

    You need to lift your game AB, your piece is turgid and easily seen through by anyone with a modicum of intelligence, little that there is on this wwww.

    By Blogger Walpurgisnacht, at Wednesday, July 29, 2009  

  • Recently on his blog Mr. Redfern has been reduced to citing the writings of one "Kathy Kasten" to support his thesis. Ms. Kasten maintains that she was literally "guided by voices in her head" to find proof that Roswell was a secret terrestrial experiment. Kathy also believes that she was "irradiated" by the CIA and her by own father. Though her writings today on the subject are less delusional, she continues to relate false histories on the subject in publications such as the appropriately named Paranoia magazine, which Mr. Redfern recommends reading.
    - - - End of citation - - -
    Wow! I think you have me confused with someone else. All of my articles for Paranoia Magazine were well researched and citations included real documents. It looks to me that you don't have access to really good libraries like UCLA's Biomed Library, or University Research Library, etc. If you did, you could verify that what I am stating in my articles is a fact. The reason I was investigating Roswell was at the request of Donald Schmitt because of my background in archaeology. I really enjoyed and laughed long and hard at your completely made up version of my early life.
    Kathy Kasten

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at Wednesday, May 26, 2010  

  • Hi Ms. Kasten-

    I make nothing up. It is you who is not being truthful. Or perhaps you have forgotten your own words? Everything that I said about you and Roswell is related in an October 11, 1998 rant that you yourself authored! The article is entitled "The Voices in My Head."

    You recount "hearing voices about the truth about Roswell" in paragraph five of this article.

    Your "Voices in My Head" article can be found archived on both the Konformist and "The Forbidden Knowledge" websites.

    And why not tell everyone the full story about yourself?. You describe yourself as a "TI" or a "Targeted Individual." You believe that you are being mentally raped by bad people who want to "mind control" you. Simply
    google key words "Kathy Kasten" + "Mind Control" to see that I am talking about. I do not believe for a second that you "know" anything about the reality of what happened at Roswell. In fact, I do not believe that you know anything about "reality."

    AJB

    By Anonymous Anthony Bragalia, at Wednesday, May 26, 2010  

  • I think that the Nazi connection is probably disinformation and yet the year 1947 is extremely significant. Not to be a conspiracist, but it was a time when the "winners" of WWII were consolidating their powers in various ways and the "losers" scientists were being mined.

    That being said, I'm a "contactee" from childhood and a denier at the same time. For me Martin Cannon's "The Controllers" makes more sense. When I grew up I got to be one of those people with constant social engineering that lead to an overt period of trauma conditioning type harassment. What a coincidence! (not)

    I think the morons who are involved with these things try to mess with people's beliefs... we could blame the aliens, we could blame another country (where one "agent" once warned me I had a witch's curse on me and went on to describe EH symptoms that I didn't have yet) etc. Then we have a net full of disinformation - the coming NWO (it's the OWO that's behind this), end of times bla bla bla and everything else to misguide a victim of what some call "mind control" but I call "behavior modification," "illegal," and "deserving of the death penalty for the planners and persons willing to carry it out."

    I bet they love all this... take real concerns and turn them into monstrous disinformation. Let people have useless fights on the internet while the people behind this get away with it. How many people's lives have they ruined? I don't think the "Nazis" are behind this, but certainly they are of the mentality that we associate with "Naziism."

    ps I don't call myself a Target since that term is already loaded with disinformation as to what this is about.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at Friday, September 10, 2010  

  • Well done ! I think that this Nazi UFO "theory" should be debunked as you did with maestrio ! I found an interesting article about that, especially the 2 pictures at the bottom where they show how to fake plastic models of UFo to get a blurry black and white Nazi UFO pix :)
    http://nazi-secret.com/en/secret-weapons/75-nazi-ufos

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at Sunday, September 26, 2010  

  • I absolutely agree with you till you have no evidence say no to NAZI UFO’s myths.
    But, if you say as same to those in Czech Republic, Poland which lost their daughters, mothers, sisters , friends in 1945 - shot death as uncomfortable witnesses or buried alive at some tunnels, I guarantee you those primitive Eastern Europeans will first stare at you later likely punch you in face. These relatives are now old ordinary folks which know nothing about physics perhaps just only understand their cow when it has some problem at their farms. Slave labor in occupied land taken by Nazi Military machine. These people were occasionally allowed to come home like once per months and they said all as same: we are working on saucers making various parts in tunnels. Please say this to no one they told us if we talk we die together with all family members.
    OK you say let us see blue prints. Suppose those blue print are all faked just imagination – well then prove it to your self that all is fake. And this is where I like science, because at end if you do not get answer at least you get smarter in physics. But, when you dig in much deeper and see people which saw things and you know they are telling you true, you then make your own true. I was abducted at 13 and taken by Haunebu craft for ride in 1970 and then for first time in 1992 when I saw photo of NAZI craft I almost collapse in shock because my boy hood dream was not dream at all. Naturally if I reside 2 km from underground base where they made all these things, but this means they are coming back - in time.

    By Blogger zachystal, at Tuesday, October 11, 2011  

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