UFO Conjecture(s)

Thursday, August 06, 2009

The Roswell Flaw


If a flying saucer actually crashed near Roswell in 1947, leaving alien bodies among the debris, wouldn’t attendant visitors (‘colleagues” as it were) of the aliens who piloted the crashed saucer try to recover their compatriots or some of the debris that allegedly lay in the New Mexico desert for days before Mac Brazel (and the Army) took possession of it?

We know, from Kenneth Arnold’s “authentic” sighting, that UFOs or flying saucers often traveled in formation/groups, and since his sighting took place in the same time-frame as the Roswell incident, the extraterrestrial visitors were, possibly, aware (or should have been) of the Roswell crash.


Are the supposed advanced alien travelers so unemotional or callous (other possibilities we admit) that they’d leave their disabled and dying fellow-travelers to the desert or human society, without trying to retrieve them?

One can’t presume to know the operational parameters of an extraterrestrial race, but since many of the so-called Roswell witnesses, especially those who said they saw bodies among the debris and crashed saucer, ascribed sentience of a human kind to the beings captured or taken by the military, one can suggest that the Roswell beings were not so alien as to eliminate survival tactics from their other-world arsenal.

If the Roswell “saucer” was not that far removed, in design and operational format, from human aircraft, and the described beings not so alien in physiognomy from human beings, one can assume that the visitors would very likely act in a similar way to human beings when a disaster occurred; that is, members of the “race’ visiting the Earth, didn’t come alone, in one flying saucer, but were accompanied by others, in a bevy of saucers, as Arnold saw, and others reported at the same time as the Roswell crash, and would have acted much as we humans would have acted: the crashed craft and its occupants would have been sought out and helped (or retrieved), or an attempt to do so would have taken place.


(No other UFOs were seen in or near Roswell during the July period that encompasses the infamous episode.)

And if that alien race did come to Earth, from outer space, another dimension, or even as time-travelers, they wouldn’t, if even moderately sensible, ignore members of their race who were in distress.

If the loss of a concomitant craft and its beings were dispensable, for whatever reasons one can conjure, then an alien retrieval of the Roswell saucer may be acceptable to rationality, but that opens a whole new aspect to the extraterrestrial modus.

Or the Roswell incident is bogus, as an extraterrestrial visitation and accident, which is what many in the UFO community are coming to believe.


  • I think it would be fruitless to fathom what motivates these creatures. They would be, by definition, alien. We can scarcely understand our own species.

    Look at how many times in military campaigns winning or losing was based upon how it was assumed the other side would fight. And time and again, one side has been thrown a curveball: Female Celtic warriors; Native American guerilla tactics; Japanese suicide pilots; Women and children suicide bombers in recent terrorist activities.

    While there were no other Roswell-specific sightings, there were MANY sightings in the region for that month alone, often describing fast moving objects. Maybe they were there and gone in a speedy fashion? Who knows?

    But if these creatures' thoughts and motivations are so different from our own, we can't risk anthropomorphizing them. And to synthesize all eye-witness accounts into a working behavior model is equally fruitless. We simply don't know who is telling the truth.

    Until further hard data becomes available, I don't think it will do us much good to speculate on occupant motivation or if they have emotions, etc...

    Those are my two cents. :-D

    By Blogger Cullan Hudson, at Thursday, August 06, 2009  

  • And a good two-cents also, Cullan.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, August 06, 2009  

  • Cullan has good points, but I can bring up several situations where caring humans would do the same thing.

    Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong very nearly died on the moon when their Lunar Ascent Craft had trouble. We did not send a "fleet" of crafts along with them on the visit to an extraterrestrial body. And had they died, it would have been months before we could have responded. If it didn't kill the program completely.

    So not only are you giving the aliens human emotions, specifically Anglo-European emotional reaction to such a crash, you're presupposing the entire logistical and technological footprint of such a culture. There is no data to support your false dichotomy.

    By Blogger Michael Malone, at Thursday, August 06, 2009  

  • MM:

    One can assume that extraterrestrials have similar motivations to humans, even of the Anglo-American kind, or European kind, as their visitation(s) have the nature of the explorers who circumnavigated this globe, as the UFO sighting data suggests.

    Moreover, if aliens and their crafts are dispensable, that is an interesting matter to be considered as we opine in the post above.

    Positing motivation(s) for the so-called alien visitors should not be precluded when one hypothesizes about the UFO phenomenon or that which may be piloting the things.

    To limit or censor ideas about the alien presence (or lack thereof) is not conducive to thoughtful rumination, is it?

    Conjecture, of all sorts, is what science does, and the UFO mystery is ideal for conjecture, since the enigma remains intact as a mystery.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, August 06, 2009  

  • Cullan Hudson and Michael Malone, we placed caveats in our post, caveats that take into account the things you both are quibbling with.

    You fellows do know how to read, right?

    Max (for the RRRGroup)

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, August 06, 2009  

  • Roswell flaw?
    Yes it is a possible flaw, but I can think of far better ones.

    But when all is said and done, there is no absolute 100% proof that ETs did not crash at Roswell.

    By Blogger cda, at Thursday, August 06, 2009  

  • CDA:

    Don't you mean there is NO 100% proof that ET's did crash in Roswell?


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, August 06, 2009  

  • Who is to say that there were not others? Perhaps when they saw what the US military was doing with their dead and wounded, they chose NOT to make their presence known.

    By Blogger FredMars, at Thursday, August 06, 2009  

  • Fred:

    There was a time lapse between the sightings of UFOs near Roswell and the crash, before Brazel and the military got involved.

    Any advanced civilization, able to get here from somewhere, would surely know when one of their fleet was down or missing in action.

    That the supposed crashed saucer near Roswell (along with another near Corona) was not reconnoitered by accompanying "visitors" is interesting to some of us...and suggests that the Roswell incident isn't what it claims to be: a crashed saucer from esewhere "manned" by aliens from elsewhere.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, August 06, 2009  

  • I think this article is a phenomenal waste of space, for many of the reasons already addressed.
    1)There are already so many flaws in the established facts, why bother entering a realm of almost pure speculation?
    2)Examples of wild speculation in the piece include the argument that Kenneth Arnold's sighting was genuine, that it was extraterrestial, and that it was connected to the Roswell crash. This is three huge leaps in one.
    3)Attack Roswell on the grounds that there is no evidence of extraterrestial involvment if you like, but once you allow for the possibility, there are a variety of things that just can't be speculated on, eg alien's motivations, emotional characteristics, physical resources at the time of the incident, ect.
    There are so many ways this could be explained, eg deliberate staged crash, damage limitation, lack of resources, emotional coldness (isn't this characteristic stressed in countless close-encounter accounts?), possibility, also widely theorised, that the pilots are some kind of automaton, ect.

    By Blogger Tristan Eldritch, at Friday, August 07, 2009  

  • Tristan:

    Your points are well-taken, and somewhat answered in a few of the comments here.

    I also suggest you look at Tony Bragalia's "Civilized Alien" post above.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, August 07, 2009  

  • These were not meant as antagonistic remarks. I hope they were not construed as such. I simply meant to offer a counter-point to the author's position. I have - and shall continue - to hold this blog and its posters in the highest regard for challenging our assumptions of the UFO phenomenon and pushing its dicourse into uncharted territories.

    By Blogger Cullan Hudson, at Friday, August 07, 2009  

  • Cullan:

    You never have to be excused for comments here.

    Your views are superb and always pertinent.

    I value anything and everything you have to say, even as my cranky colleagues pretend they don't.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, August 07, 2009  

  • Others have already raised the relevant issues.

    This is an absolutely pointless question IMO.

    There's a thousand variables that we aren't aware of. But I think the most logical answer is that the materials were not of value to "them".

    There is absolutely no way that such a premise can be used to argue against the non-human interpretation of the alleged Roswell event.

    By Blogger Gareth, at Friday, August 07, 2009  

  • This is a great blog and this is a great topic. Just for the sake of argument, I'd offer than maybe these aliens are not EBEs but androids put here to monitor our activities. This ties into the Igigi concept from Sitchin. So these flying saucers don't actually come from space or they are based within the solar system and belong to another race who control them via remote control, perhaps using neutrino beams. What could have happened is that this machine was knocked out by the lightning strike or missile and whatever homing beacon was fried. The debris was scattered and no one looking for it would necessarily recognize it from high altitude. And perhaps these androids don't have the kind of abstract perception that would allow them to locate a craft whose homing circuits were destroyed.

    Just some blue sky for you.

    By Blogger Christopher Knowles, at Sunday, August 09, 2009  

  • Christopher:

    You are not alone in the android scenario, but the so-called Roswell witnesses, who claimed to have seen the saucer bodies, dead and alive, indicate sentient, mortal creatures -- one with an apprehensive demeanor.

    That's what we posit as a key factor in our conjecture -- and it is just a conjecture on our part, to stir discussion.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, August 10, 2009  

  • Roswell Flaw? I don't think so.

    Often I wonder if anybody "really" thinks the entire scenario through. I highly doubt any beings from elsewhere (hyper-dimensional or otherwise) have "Prime Directives" to not interfere with a primitive species such as ourselves. In fact, in order to lead, direct, coerse, or entice a population to move into a direction of control; you must first peak their interest by dropping some bait. Considering what Brazel found in the middle of the desert; I believe "they" have accomplished a great deal more than most (if anyone) suspect. Most amateur Ufologists seem giddy at the opportunity to prove themselves correct when iterfacing a debunker. With that last statement in mind shall we consider what we have done technologically over the past 150 years? For some, the obvious truth could be considered an epiphany...

    By Blogger Chip, at Thursday, August 20, 2009  

  • I do not mean to demean the original post, but it is very easy to compare this incident with one of a conventional earthly situation.

    If two fighter planes, each with the capacity to hold two humans are on a mission, and one crashes -- what are the two pilots in the other craft going to do?

    Land in the crash zone? Probably not, unless it happened to be near an airport where it could safely land. Your post assumes that the location and conditions would have allowed a companion 'saucer' to land.

    Even if the other fighter craft was able to land, and the two pilots from the downed craft were alive --- how would four of them fit into the remaining plane that can only hold two people?

    What would have likely occurred, is that the surviving plane would have called for a rescue party to recover the two surviving pilots -- and that could take days or longer even by earthly standards. How long does it take for aliens to send a rescue party to a downed saucer on earth?

    Even if we were able to recover the live pilots -- would earthly rescue teams also take the wreckage?

    And don’t forget Steve Fosset -- the incredible effort to find his plane led to finding many other downed planes, some lost for decades, but not his. His plane was found by someone not even looking for it—more than a year later. For all we know, the aliens are still looking for the downed 'saucer.'

    By Blogger rob, at Wednesday, September 02, 2009  

  • Rob:

    YOu overlook several points...

    Flying saucers were in the vicinity of the Roswell crash, in the time-frame of that incident.

    Aliens didn't have to come from afar.

    Also, the flying saucers of the time had a hovering quality, so they wouldn't have to land in the way an airplane would.

    Our hypothesis makes an analogous connection to how we humans would react to a crashed aircraft, but one can't extrapolate that to an alien culture, so we merely presented a hypothetical conjecture, that's all.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, September 02, 2009  

  • "Flying saucers were in the vicinity of the Roswell crash, in the time-frame of that incident."

    Ok, assume your statement is fact. My analogy of the fighter plane also had a second craft in the vicinity. And the craft was manned by people friendly to the manned craft.

    How do you know the other craft were friends? Perhaps they were analogous to the Russians, and shot down the Roswell Craft.

    "Aliens didn't have to come from afar."

    Ok, let's assume this is fact. The thousand of people who looked for Fosset did not have to come from afar either. Never found him.

    So you know that all aliens are from the same group? Is it possible that they are from different planets and do not care much for each other. Perhaps one, not so wealthy, planet could only afford to send one saucer -- and not a very good one at that. They were not good pilots and did not hover well, as you assume all of them can - and they crashed.

    Are you sure that the other aliens would help them out -- even if they had some extra seats in their saucer? I pass hitch-hikers all the time and I would not pick them up, even if they were aliens.

    By Blogger rob, at Wednesday, September 02, 2009  

  • Rob:

    You're creating a SciFI scenario that would allow for a lengthy discussion, and some interesting conjecture.

    Unfortunately, no one here has the time, at the moment, to engage in a colloquy about alien mind-sets and a gamut of saucer entities.

    If you'd like to present a counter-post to our Roswell Flaw post, we'd be glad to put it online, intact, verbatim.

    Send it to us at rrrgroup@gmail.com if you wish.

    Rich Reynolds

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, September 02, 2009  

  • Reading about Roswell right now. Only on Chap 3 and I knew nothing about Roswell before starting book except some alien drama involving govt happened long time ago in Arizona or Mexico but I never caerd enough to find out.

    I'm just starting to read all this stuff, who saw what the first days, their descriptions of the alien bodies firsthand, threats, etc.

    My point: One question leads to 5 new questions. My head is going crazy right now with the scope and exploding curiosities and questions I personally have. Questions that aren't begging for answers, but questions any active brain cannot help.

    Speculation is going crazy with chaos inside my head as I read about Roswell and think about real aliens schmoozing with us--I'm convinced govt high-ups are "BFFs" with these little dudes and have been for long long time.

    Since we are not scientists or UFO specialists being paid to think scientifically and logically and come to scientific conclusions.....we theorize, guess, hypothesize, and SPECULATE like crazy.

    Who wouldn't? I suppose there are folks who still deny alien contact or their existence because to be convinced this is true, could cause them to go nuts with fear and panic.

    This stuff is so far beyond our messy human-ness, our tangled emotions, our limited mental evolution and abilities......that it is almost impossible to accept if you think/analyze this for too long.

    We can't handle the truth. We as a race are too "dirty" with our emotions. Our emotions are what is separating us, besides the technology, from these creatures.

    By Anonymous eyelash123, at Friday, August 27, 2010  

  • They were shot down with concentrated EMP. They could have destroyed us all in the process, it is foolish to think that they did not care. They left it because their universal code prevented them from interfering with our evolution any further. Remember that these beings are smarter than us in every way. The ones who shot them were foolish, rich thieves who gambled this planet to profit from advanced technology (NASA) and with it were able to reverse engineer everything including their free energy systems. You will notice that all photos of the inside were destroyed to keep the money protected that they had stolen.

    By Blogger heroesgrantorino, at Saturday, March 05, 2016  

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