The UFO Iconoclast(s)

Sunday, May 16, 2010

THE "OTHER" ROSWELL CRASH: The Secret of the Plains Revealed by Anthony Bragalia

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Evidence now suggests that when we think of the "Roswell UFO crash" that we should not just think of crash sites that were located within relatively close proximity to one another. We should also consider a possibly related site located much farther away - within West Central New Mexico. It is a highly significant site for it is there where it was reported that the corpses of interplanetary pilots were found.

A boost has now been given to the credibilty of the famous but contentious "Barney Barnett" story of a UFO crash in New Mexico's "Plains of San Augustin" region. Fresh evidence supporting this event comes from:

- A recent interview with a decorated Colonel about his talk with witness Barney Barnett
- A possible confirmaton of Barney Barnett's encounter by Intelligence Agent and Roswell witness Jesse Marcel Sr.
- Telling information about another crash site with bodies, provided by Jesse Marcel's Sr.'s daughter-in-law to this author
- The stunning discovery of a Harvard University document about archaeologists at the scene of the reported crash. The document exposes the archaeologist who is now found to have lied to researchers that he was not there and that he had seen nothing.

Considered together, this information points to another crash event that may have in some way been associated with the Roswell incident. But this site may be of equal or greater interest and importance than the ones commonly discussed. This is because at this site a strange metallic disk was rested, cracked on a flat desert floor. Aside it and inside it were strewn the smallish bodies of the unearthly.

BRINGING BACK BARNEY

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Barney Barnett

Grady L. "Barney" Barnett was highly-regarded as an official of long standing with the US Soil Conservation Service in New Mexico. His story was first related in the first book on Roswell, "The Roswell Incident" published in 1980 and authored by William Moore and Charles Berlitz, with the assistance of Stanton Friedman. Today the Barnett story remains largely ignored, forgotten or discredited as it does not neatly "fit" into the Roswell story and locations as told today.

Barnett had related to some friends that while out working on projects around the Plains of San Augustin (also spelled San Agustin) he had encountered a disk-shaped spaceship the color of dirty stainless steel, about twenty or thirty feet in diameter. While examining the disk, a small group of university research archaeologists on a dig had arrived and had also encountered the crash and corpses.

The bodies were entirely unlike anything that Barnett and his companions had ever seen. They had huge hairless heads and were outfitted in one-piece grayish suits with no belts or zippers. According to information provided by Barnett's friends and associates (who spoke publicly about the event after his death) soldiers then soon arrived. A cordon was put in place around the crash site and the civilians were admonished that it was their duty to country not to say anything to anyone of what they had seen.

Although the time frame of Barnett's encounter was similar to Roswell's, Barnett had placed his sighting of the downed craft and pilots over 200 miles from Roswell- in the "Plains of San Augustin" region of New Mexico. The machine was split open upon explosion or impact. Barnett got close enough to see what the creature pilots looked like, but he did not touch them. He said that there were like humans but not humans, small by our standards. They seemed to be males, and their were a number of them. The eyes were oddly spaced. Barnett told his friends that then military officers drove up to the scene and told the assembled to leave. They were escorted off of the site and were told to say nothing ever of what they had witnessed.

Barnett's story first came to light through researcher Stanton Friedman. After a talk Friedman had given at Bemidji State College in October, 1978 (before all of the Roswell books) he was approached by Vern Maltais and his wife Jean. The Maltais couple related to Friedman a story that they were told many years prior by one Grady "Barney" Barnett: A flying saucer had fallen and their friend confessed that he saw it.

BARNEY'S BELIEVABILITY & SUPPORT FOR HIS STORY

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Barnett's Neighbor, Vern Maltais

Many people have spoken very well of Grady "Barney" Barnett, who died in 1969:

VERN & JEAN MALTAIS

Vern Maltais and his wife Jean say that in February of 1950, Barney told them a story about an incredible UFO crash event that had happened just "a few years prior" in the New Mexico desert. He provided to them details about his encounter, including viewing bodies that were not human. He said to Maltais that the bodies were very thin, three and a half to four feet tall and that there were four of them. Maltais also said that Barney spoke of arriving archaeologists to the crash scene.

Though an incredible story, they believed Barney. That is because they knew Barnett to be a believable man. And he was. He was a WW I Army Vet, later employed by the US Government in a responsible position performing inspection and field engineering services for many years. A church-going Presbyterian and Board Member of the Socorro Electric Co-op, he was highly regarded by those in his community. Lee Garner, a former Mayor of Socorro, speaks of Barney as a truthful and trustworthy man.

JAMES & BETH DANLEY

Barney's boss during the 1940s and 1950s was James "Fleck" Danley. Danley was on the Water Conservation Board in Magdalena, NM. Danley and Danley's wife Beth recall Barney fondly and favorably as well. But they go one step further and recall the time when Barney quietly told about the UFO crash, corroborating the Maltais couple's claim. Fleck explained in an interview in 1979 (again, before all of the Roswell books) that Barney had mentioned to him his witnessing of a crashed flying saucer. Some years later Fleck described Barney "one of the most honest men I ever knew. I never knew Barney to lie. Not about anything."

HOWARD BACA

Barney's neighbor and close friend Harold Baca also indicates that he too was privately related this crash story by Barney. Barney brought it up in connection with the cancer that he was battling in 1967. Barney told Baca about the crash from decades prior. He had expressed to Bace a concern: by bending over the debris and bodies, Barney was fearful that he may have inhaled something toxic while leaning over the crash site. He felt that it may have been related to the respiratory cancer he was currently suffering. Baca once asked Barney's wife about the crash site: "Was Barney hallucinating or what?" Ruth replied: "Oh no! It really happened there out on the Plains twenty years ago! But we just do not talk about it much anymore" Baca explains, "We had other things to do at that time. We were raising a family of four and I just didn't discuss it anymore with them. It wasn't until later on that I grasped what the man had seen. He died and I regretted not getting more information."

ALICE KNIGHT

Barney's niece, Alice Knight, is more specific about when the crash happened. She indicated that she has known of the crash that involved Barney for many, many decades. She states that she and her new husband John Braxton had visited Socorro and Uncle Barney on Thanksgiving in 1947. She said that the event had happened "only several months before" (likely the summer of that year) and that her Uncle was "still nervous" about the possibility of "military showing up." She thought he was "on a road near the Plains of San Augustin." She said that Barney had mentioned encountering "some folks on a dig" while at the crash site. We will soon see just who was there "on a dig" later in this article. Barney's niece also mentioned that her Aunt (Barney's wife Ruth) once confided to her about Barney: "After that thing in '47, Barney was not quite himself."

We are presented with Barney's boss, a close relative, a neighbor, and a friend who all independently tell the story of Barney's alien ordeal. Researcher Art Campbell wonders: "What factors but Barney's honesty and sincerity would compel Barney's friends and relatives to tell the same lifelong story without variance amid much inconvenience, with nothing to gain?"

Though Barney's wife Ruth maintained a diary, it does not mention this crash event, but it does confirm that Barney was out on the Plains on July 2 of 1947. Why this crash revelation was not mentioned in the diary is understandable. It is not something that you want to commit to print. It would be too incrimiminating. Putting it on paper would be risky. Alice Knight said that Barney and Ruth agreed to never write anything down about the event. Just like those at Roswell with no known diaries describing the crash event, the Barnett encounter would not be found in any diary. But some who were entrusted would be imparted this information. It was told to only a very few - to those who would only relate what they knew when Barney himself was dead.

A COLONEL'S CONFIRMATION: BARNEY TOLD THE TRUTH

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A Young William Leed

William Leed retired as a Colonel of the U.S. Army and has a very interesting tale to tell about Barney Barnett. Highly decorated, Leed served at Ft. Hood and other locations and was in the Signal Corps. He left active duty in 1995. Leed's story about Barnett's UFO crash experience adds to the information provided by the Maltais couple, the Danley couple, Barney's neighbor and Barney's niece. Some years ago, Leed contacted researcher Stanton Friedman after becoming aware of Friedman's research on Barney Barnett and the Plains UFO crash. Leed indicated that he had actually met Barney Barnett back in the 1960s. Leed is consistent in his story, and recounts accurately to me what he told Stanton Friedman two decades ago.

With assistance from researcher Art Campbell (who provided several of the photos for this article) this author interviewed Leed a few months ago by telephone at Leed's upstate New York home. What Leed has to say supports the veracity of Barney Barnett and the likely truth of the story he told.

When Leed was a First Lieutenant in the mid-1960s, the subject of UFOs arose amongst Leed and a few officers. Leed told me that a superior officer then approached him to tell him a little more about the subject. Leed says that the officer then confidentially took Leed aside and told him that if he wanted to know that truth about UFOs, he should track down a a person named Mr. Barney Barnett of Socorro, New Mexico. Barnett, he was told, "was a man who had touched one."

In the summer of 1967, Leed began a quest to research Barnett's whereabouts and to meet with him. Leed had located Barney's address and began a vacation-adventure throughout the Southwest that would include a stop to Barney's house. Pulling up to Barney's modest house in a non air-conditioned car, Leed recalls, he was a bit shy and nervous about actually approaching Barney at his home. Mustering the courage, he was greeted kindly by Barnett, by then very thin and frail, who invited him in. Leed cautiously began to introduce himself. Leed was asked by Barney to show some ID- and Leed showed him his military ID, but said that his interest was strictly personal. He then began to inquire about what he had heard- that Barney saw a crashed UFO many years ago. He was there for less than 15 minutes and took up more time with "tourist talk" and less than five minutes on the crashed UFO subject. Leed said to me that Barney confirmed that a disc-type aircraft had crashed and that he came across it unexpectedly. Barney confirmed to Leed - without ambiguity - that he believed it to have been the crash of a flying saucer, not something from Earth. Barney appeared somewhat nervous and indicated to Leed that he had been visited before by military about the event.

Leed (who in my interview of him seemed very frank and articulate) explained to me that he believed that Barney was telling the absolute truth as he remembered it. Leed said that he knew this because of Barney's anxious but sincere look and demeanor. Leed sensed that Barney may have feared that he was being interrogated or intimidated by military visits (something it is said that did happen to Barney in intervening years). Leed told me that it was not his objective to obtain "every little detail" about Barney's experience, but rather what Leed wanted to do most was to get a sense of his basic honesty. Leed said: "I am satisfied that Barney was telling the truth. That's all I wanted to know, and I left."

AN ARCHAEOLOGIST COVERS UP

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Dr. Herbert Dick

The presence of archaeologists at the scene of a UFO crash site is a recurring theme when studying the Roswell incident. Barney Barnett had also reported the presence of archaeologists. Researchers such Kevin Randle, Tom Carey and Don Schmitt began to comb through dig records and university archives to contact any archaeologists who may have been working in New Mexico in early July of 1947, the time period associated with the crashed saucer. They wanted to reach them to see if any of them had ever seen any such crash sites in NM during that time period. They were able to interview many of those who were still living.

While considering various archaeologists, researchers uncovered Harvard-trained Dr Herbert Dick. Dick was a noted archaeologist who passed away in 1992. Some years before his death however, he was located and questioned. Dick categorically denied that he had ever worked around the Plains of San Augustin region in July of 1947. Dick had told researchers he had not been there, telling one of them, "If I knew anything I would have told you." One of his dig party, Jeff Morris, also denied it. These denials were reported in early 1990's issues of the publication IUR - International UFO Reporter and elsewhere.

It turns out though that Dick had lied to these researchers when he was interviewed by them. In 2006 a revealing letter was uncovered by researcher Art Campbell. Campbell has been active in the UFO field for decades, including with NICAP. He is the author of "UFO Crash at San Augustin" and maintains the UFO Crash Book website. The documents that he discovered confirm that Dick had not told the truth. Dick was in fact at the Plains at the very time that he said that he was not.

Campbell recently shared with me the correspondence that Dick had sent to his graduate advisor at Harvard at the time. By working with the Peabody Museum of Harvard University (from which Dick graduated with his PhD) copies of these letters were obtained. A December, 1947 letter confirms that Dick had indeed conducted site investigations there in the Plains specifically during the weeks of July 1-14, 1947. In the letter - and in direct contradiction to what he had repeatedly told researchers - Dick clearly states that: "Our party proceeded to the Plains of San Augustin on July 1, 1947...we spent two weeks carefully contouring, mapping and trenching."

And Dick must have remembered this time period well. This is because in other letters that he authored that were discovered, we learn that he had vied for that very dig trip and time frame against a competing student. He even wrote his graduate advisor on why he should be selected over his competitor to go to New Mexico. If Dick could clinch permission from Harvard Administration for this dig on the Plains during early July, he knew that it would propel him above his competing colleagues at Harvard. In fact, it did. That very work set the course for a very notable professional career.

Dick curiously mentions the "Bat Cave" during his expedition there. Smaller caves near the "Bat Cave" are rumored to have held some of the crash debris reportedly hidden by a rancher, Dan Richards.

A thorough search of records finds that no other group of archaeologists were working on the Plains in early July of 1947 except Herbert Dick and party - and Dick lied that he was even there. Lies are used to cover up the truth by those who wish to evade it. To have ever spoken of the event, Dick may have felt that he could have risked a security breach, his own professional advancement, future professional credibility, award of grant monies or - later in life - damage to his impressive professional legacy.

Dick's unqualified denials cannot be chalked up to the possibility that Dick had somehow "forgotten" or "confused" the dates. Dick's denial was instead intentional. It was meant to deceive. This was his very first major archaeological expedition. It was one that he coveted and for which he had competed- and the one which careened his career. And Dick was an historical thinker. By his nature - and as an archaeologist - he was the type who gave careful attention to dates and details. But his accuracy did not extend to his recounting of the crash event on the Plains.

Here is part of this revealing letter that confirms Dick's presence on the Plains:

Peabody Document

Herbert Dick Letter

Of course the site closer to Roswell also claims its own involved archaeologist, Dr. Curry Holden. Holden was implicated in the discovery of a UFO crash site associated directly with the Roswell event. But Holden was in a different region of New Mexico when he made his discovery. Is it possible that the crash at that time involved very far-flung materials within the State? Could two different dig parties have located two separate (or maybe related) crashed UFO debris sites? Perhaps so. For who else but people like archaeologists and paleontologists or rock hunters and ranchers roam the remote New Mexican deserts to find such things?

DID MARCEL KNOW ABOUT BARNEY?

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Jesse Marcel

In an email to this author, Roswell Major Jesse Marcel's daughter-in-law (Linda Marcel) confirmed that at the end of his life Jesse has spoken of another crash site with bodies. And a careful re-reading of a transcript by this author of one of the very first recorded interviews of Intelligence Officer Marcel is revealing. Marcel makes a cryptic mention of another, similar site that was found much farther away and to the west of the site that he had investigated. He said that a "surveyor" there had also come across UFO crash debris! Marcel may well have been alluding to surveyor Barney Barnett.

Jesse Marcel Sr. (who testified that he had witnessed and handled ET debris near Roswell) told his family that there was more than one "Roswell" related crash site. He also confirmed that - through an entrusted source - he had learned there were in fact recovered bodies at another site.

This revelation was made to me in an email dated September 02, 2007 from Linda Marcel. Linda was Jesse Marcel Sr's daughter-in-law and wife to Jesse's son, Jesse Jr. She wrote to me in part: "As far as we know, Jesse Sr. never saw any bodies. I asked him and he told me no. He said that he was at the 'first' crash site and that there were no bodies. He said though that he did know someone who did see the bodies. He said that it was someone he trusts. He never said who."

We learn more about this - and its potential tie to Barnett - in one of the first interviews that Marcel ever granted on the Roswell subject. The late reporter and UFO researcher Bob Pratt conducted a recorded interview with Jesse Marcel, Sr. on December 8, 1978. Pratt found Marcel to be "a very impressive man and quite believable."

Buried within a transcript of this interview of Marcel were some very revealing statements that were found by this author. In a response to a question, a little more than half-way into the interview, Marcel states that well west from the site that he himself had encountered, that there was another similar site that was located. Marcel said: "And I learned later that, farther west, towards Carrizozo they found something like that too...80 miles west of there..."

Pratt then asks Marcel about just who it was that "saw something similar out there?" Marcel replied: "I think that it was discovered by some surveyor out there."

Well, of course Barney's crash event was located "farther west" to Marcel's when Barney saw "something similar" to what was found near Roswell. But most tellingly, Barney Barnett was a surveyor for the US Soil Conservation Service! When Marcel mentioned a surveyor, did he mean Barney?

What is not well known is that the primary duty of Barney's job for the US Government was to perform land surveying. In fact most of his time was designated to such surveying activity. He delineated and established property lines, outlined the parameters of civil and land projects and he created markers for towns in the region. Barney could often be seen at the County Surveyor office consulting survey records. Barney also performed civil projects inspections.

It is of significance too that Marcel said to Pratt that he had heard that they had found something similar at the other site. Marcel uses the plural "they," but then he specifically mentions a surveyor. Of course Barney Barnett was a surveyor that found a site that others did. Marcel somehow knew that this surveyor was not alone, but was part of a group (perhaps of archaeologists or military) when the other site was located.

So here we have Marcel himself confirming that there was another site. And he indicates that - like Barney's discovery - it was located many miles away and much further west from the site that Marcel himself had investigated. Marcel told his daughter-in-law that (like at the Barnett location) there were bodies found at that site. He said that the other crash event was similar to what had happened closer to Roswell. And most remarkably, Marcel said that the "other site" was found by people including someone that he had specifically described as "a surveyor." (Was Jesse referring to Barney?)

We may never know conclusively. In what may have been his last recorded interview before he died, Marcel admitted to researcher Linda Corley: "There is a hell of a lot that I haven't said for the sake of my country."

SITE SPECIFICS

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Is there a way to reconcile all of the different sites into one authentic account of the events at Roswell and in New Mexico in the Summer of 1947? The Foster Ranch site is confirmed, another more interesting site is hinted at - and now there is the likelihood of even another site, much farther away. The sometimes vehement disagreement between noted UFO researchers on the "Barney Barnett" issue only impedes the search for answers.

We must all agree that the specific number of crash sites - and the precise location of each - may never be conclusively resolved. We must remain open to various scenarios. As rancher Loretta Proctor (who saw some of the debris that rancher Mac Brazel took to her) told me, the craft may have "skipped" or "leaked" several times and that there was more than one location. She says that she doesn't have "all of the answers" but she allows that "maybe there were even two separate UFOs that crashed during roughly the same time."

Perhaps the crash event near Roswell and the one at the Plains were the result of two distinctly different UFOs that had fallen not precisely at the same time, but very close to the same time. Or maybe they were more intimately related. Possibly they were crashes from the same "skipping" or "shedding" saucer. This would have involved a highly-energetic craft with multiple "compartments" that fell in stages and pieces far and wide in New Mexico. But whatever the exact scenario - Barney Barnett likely fits into the equation...somehow.

16 Comments:

  • Marcel sr was interviewed by Pratt on December 8, 1979 (not 1978). A transcript of this interview appears in Karl Pflock's book "Roswell, Inconvenient Facts...", p.230. It was also published in "The National Enquirer".

    Marcel had heard the Barnett crashed saucer story from earlier interviews given by Moore & Stan Friedman during 1979. Hence his answer to Pratt's question.

    By Blogger cda, at Sunday, May 16, 2010  

  • Re Herbert Dick, I refer Mr Bragalia to the CUFOS/FUFOR document "The Plains of San Augustin Controversy, July 1947", p.16, where Kevin Randle quotes from his interview with Dick on June 23, 1991. Randle writes: "The first thing Dick said was 'If I knew anything, I'd tell you'".

    There is no mention that Dick ever lied about being present on the Plains of San Augustin in July '47. Randle specifically says "The first thing Dick said...".

    So my question is: Who did Herbert Dick lie to? Not Randle, Schmitt or Carey (judging from the article above). Tony Bragalia tells us that Dick lied to certain "researchers". Which ones, and when?

    By Blogger cda, at Sunday, May 16, 2010  

  • CDA:

    My typo stands corrected. It was 1979, not 78.

    However, there is a problem with you believing that Marcel is merely repeating what he had heard from Friedman in the months before.

    1) Friedman himself set up the interview between Marcel and Pratt! Marcel would not have been so oblique with Pratt as to just say that he "learned later" about another site and a surveyor. He would have said that "Stan told me that there was a surveyor..." Or, "that's what Stan said" or "Stan told me that."

    2) And read in the context of the rest of the interview, Marcel's statements about a farther west location and a surveyor come immediately after Marcel is recounting his crash site involvement at that time. He then continues by describing what he heard later in that time frame - not decades later.

    3) Linda Marcel indicates that the knowledge that Marcel had of another site she took to mean near the time of the actual event, not decades later.

    4) In researching Barney Barnett in 1978-79, Stan was not mentioning the town of Carrizozo or "about 80 miles west of Carrizozo" as Marcel did.

    Rather, Stan was at the time mentioning place like "the Plains" "San Augustin" "Magdalena" and "Corona" - not at all how Marcel had described the crash area west of him.

    5) Finally and most importantly, Barney was not referred to in the
    literature at the time as a "surveyor." He official title was not "surveyor" - though his much of his duties entailed just that. In all of the literature at that time, Barney was referred to as a "civil engineer" or as a "soil conservation engineer." Never was he referred to as a "surveyor" as Marcel called him. Just "google" it yourself. Barney is always described even today as a "civil engineer" or a "soil conservation engineer." His surveying duties were found by researcher Art Campbell who got a first hand accounting of Barney's job description and day-to-day work responsibilities.

    AJB

    By Anonymous Anthony Bragalia, at Sunday, May 16, 2010  

  • CDA-

    Yes, there is mention of this in past IURs. Check out 1991 Issue 6, 1992 Issue 3 (Friedman) and 1993 Issue 3.

    Also, in 1992, Stan Friedman delivered a paper in which he states that one of the dig party, Jeff Morris (Dick's brother-in-law) denies that he or Dick or at the Plains during that time...

    I am trying to reach researcher Art Campbell to get additional details on all of this to share...

    AJB

    By Anonymous Anthony Bragalia, at Monday, May 17, 2010  

  • To Tony Bragalia:

    Your attempt to link Marcel with Barnett is very weak. The San Augustin 'crash' was never reported anywhere at the time and only came to light when Friedman met the Maltaises in 1978. So unless you can provide a positive link (preferably in a written article or newspaper report c. 1947-48) between Barnett & Marcel, we can safely reject this supposed support for Barnett's tale. How on earth would Marcel have learned of this other crash anyway? From his military colleagues? Hardly; they were all sworn to secrecy, remember? So how did he learn of it? [Answer: from Stan Friedman and/or Bill Moore during 1979].

    You may care to reflect that if you are right and that if Marcel knew the Barnett story from the late 40s, he would have informed Moore & Friedman at once, as supporting evidence for Roswell, during their extensive interviews. Instead it was the other way around!

    Of course Marcel sr did not inform his daughter-in-law of San Augustin in the late 40s. That too would have been a gross violation of his secrecy vows. She has her timescales wrong, pure and simple.

    As to archaeologist Dick, I do not have the IUR issues you quote (not being a subscriber). I have not reread the whole of the San Augustin Conference papers I mentioned before, but the writers do not say that Dick ever lied about being present in the general area in July '47. He merely denied knowing anything about a UFO 'crash'. Various interviewers spoke to him to confirm his presence, so it appears that your 'proof that Dick was a liar' Peabody document from 1947 is redundant, in this respect anyway.

    By Blogger cda, at Monday, May 17, 2010  

  • Very interesting, and great effort on your part, Anthony. You keep chipping away at it and providing more possible clues and correlations...well done.

    Barney, by all accounts provided, sounds like an honest man. And somehow I feel he probably was the "surveyor" Jesse, Sr. referred to.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at Monday, May 17, 2010  

  • "Your attempt to link Marcel with Barnett is very weak. "

    "How on earth would Marcel have learned of this other crash anyway? From his military colleagues? Hardly; they were all sworn to secrecy, remember? So how did he learn of it? [Answer: from Stan Friedman and/or Bill Moore during 1979]."

    CDA I always enjoy reading your comments, but the above quotes to me....says that this is your OPINION.
    Just like the author is stating his....so unless either of you can back up OPINIONS with FACTS(in relation to the subject of the above quotes).... then what we have here is 2 different views/opinions on the matter.

    I don't see your comments as an "attack", I respect your views for the most part, but again, it's YOUR view.
    The Roswell puzzle is missing many pieces...and too many researchers take the few they have and try to see the picture as they see it.....then again, with the never ending Roswell story, this seems to be all we can really go on, is our own interpretations.
    Thanks to the author for a great read and for those who continue to research this story, and CDA, again, I enjoy reading your comments.

    By Blogger Rick, at Monday, May 17, 2010  

  • A very interesting Blog indeed. Very detailed. Most of the witnesses you hear making statements about what they saw at Roswell are telling the truth as they remember it.
    One thing I learned recently, discussed on "From here to Andromeda" by David Sereda is where Boyd Bushman ( Retired Aerospace/Lockheed Engineer)states that the Roswell craft was actually "shot down" by the U.S. Military. Now a statement like that makes it even harder to get everything to fit together, but it also makes sense. I've read newspaper reports claiming that the next "Saucer" will be chased and shot down. Those reports are in the Archives of the Australian newspapers of 1947. Go figure.
    Cheers...G.Simpson. Australian UFO Research Network, Victoria. Australia.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at Tuesday, May 18, 2010  

  • Oh how I wish UFOlogists would focus their time and energy on more recent cases, where the witnesses aren't all dead, nearly so, or suffering from 60+ years of memory decay, and any physical evidence hasn't long since been washed or blown away.

    These antiques, interesting though they might be, are because of their very age, essentially dead ends.

    By Blogger purrlgurrl, at Tuesday, May 18, 2010  

  • PG:

    You are so right!

    But "ufologists" of the old-school can't give up the ghosts of UFOs-past.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Tuesday, May 18, 2010  

  • Any time any one can add something of substance to any of these mysterious goings on is important, no matter how long ago they occurred...IMO that is. :)

    By Blogger Bob Koford, at Wednesday, May 19, 2010  

  • This post reminds me of string fishing wherein one line holds several hooks in order to harvest a sea of information that ultimately leads to historical precedents of similar cases. I have read several very convincing theories as to who "Jack The Ripper was, each one of them full of telling details that seemingly prop up several potential suspects as the likely culprit. In this Ripper case, which has a longer historical thread, we are left with the same enigma that originally befuddled Scotland Yard, which only worsened over time. I have a certain admiration for championing the saint of lost causes, but this one from every aspect simply looks as dead and as dry as a doornail, your fine efforts not withstanding. It has become a sort of default demarcation between the superimposition of theoretical overlays versus the veracity of the evidence. Any homicide detective will tell you, this is one very cold case, without a body. I think these strings you have created in the case are unfortunately entangled in the politic of their utility which has come to naught, long after it was time to fish or cut bait. I look at this case as a black hole that eats belief systems and the truth seems to resemble more of a meme than a traceable causal chain of events. This in of itself may be a clue as to it's truth.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Thursday, May 20, 2010  

  • ETC says

    No written material in any UFO book (check them out ) refers to Barnett as a surveyor. The first one to mention it was I believe researcher Art Campbell about 2002. He had gotten Barnett"s civil service record. Marcel Sr could not have learned it from Friedman. Stan first contacted Marcel in Jan of 1978 he did not know about Barnett until his talk at Bemidji in Oct of 78.

    Marcel said in Pratt interview that "he learned later" about the other crash 60-80 miles west of Carrizozo. Barnett had an area 72 miles wide and 70 miles long starting just west of Socorro. The Plains of San Augustin are there also.......

    ETC

    By Anonymous ETC, at Friday, May 28, 2010  

  • Rick

    Usually Military officers like Marcel do not have to be sworn to secrecy. It is not a formal process. Those that know something usually know what they need to . But from time to time aspects of secrets are discussed with others that know also. This is the way information is evaluated by discussion. Comparing notes with others is part of the game.

    ETC

    By Blogger ETC, at Saturday, May 29, 2010  

  • I agree with Bob Koford. Sometimes it takes a long time for the truth to be revealed. Who can say what might come from future declassified documents?

    By Blogger Frank Stalter, at Wednesday, June 16, 2010  

  • Iam very surprised shocked is more like it Mr Bragalia. I never thought this missing segment of the event on the Planes Of San Augustin would ever be resolved! Now there is this information brought forth by you regarding Dr. Herbert Dick? Is he a big man? Can you find out his stature his height. GERALD ANDERSON SPOKE OF A BIG MAN THAT WORE A PIT HELMET. My gut feeling is that this man fits the profile of the man a young GERALD ANDERSON SAW THAT FATEFULL MORNING. Ask Mr Anderson if the picture of Dr Dick is indeed the man in charge of the group of students from back east? If he is not the missing doctor puzzle piece than the 99% chance of hit or miss fell to the o.5% chance that he DR HERBERT DICK WAS NOT THERE THAT DAY WITH HIS STUDENTS AND THE ANDERSONS AND BARNEY BARNETT AND THE GOVERNMENTS SECRET SPECIAL OPERATIONS ALIEN RECOVERY OPERATIONS DETACHMENTS who arrived on location in short order with a displayed professional technique that defied a very uncommon? application. But it is apparently obvious not to them! Not to this exsperianced apparatus.

    By Blogger Mark Moore, at Friday, February 21, 2014  

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