posted by RRRGroup at
Tuesday, June 07, 2011
The disclosure would more likely come from an international scientific committee, after a lot of soul searching and analysis of the data. Such a disclosure need not involve governments or the military at all.I agree with Nick's points in general. All this blah about official cover-up & conspiracy started with our old friend Donald Keyhoe, and continues to this day.
By cda, at Tuesday, June 07, 2011
CDA says:"I agree with Nick's points in general."Holy shit, CDA agrees with me??!! I MUST be doing something wrong! LOL.
By Nick Redfern, at Tuesday, June 07, 2011
I think the definition of 'UFO disclosure' is as slippery as a bar of soap being fought over by a team of Turkish wrestlers...If it's by 'international scientists,' it's been done already.By which I mean that international scientists have made numerous statements and released papers and books confirming 'UFO reality.' Then again, 'international scientists' have also disputed the conclusions.In the spirit of adventurous analogies, 'UFO reality' is the ugly kid at the 'scientific community's' party that nobody wants to admit knowing. Who can blame them? 'UFO Reality' has a habit of hanging out with a nutty crowd. :)I can think of three obvious outcomes for disclosure...1 - Nothing to disclose2 - Forced to disclose by circumstance3 - The subjects of disclosure make the speculation redundant
By Kandinsky, at Tuesday, June 07, 2011
By 'disclosure' I meant possessing actual hardware, bodies or unimpeachable documentation which proves the ET nature of UFOs. No scientific committees have ever come close to disclosing anything of this nature. It would take many months of analysis and repeated appraisal of the evidence before agreement was reached on this, before disclosing anything. Both the Magonia and Kevin Randle's blogs have devoted space to the 'disclosure' matter in recent weeks, but only in the form of official governmental disclosure. As I said, it need not come about in this way (assuming it ever occurs at all, of course).
I think most people in Ufology who want, hope for, or yearn for disclosure do so because they fear the alternative: spending a life-time pursuing the UFO answers and going to the grave before they get them. So, they lazily hope the government will help them out with the answers.Which is why I have plenty of non-UFO, non-Fortean interests. If I get the answers, great! If I don't, well there's plenty more do do with life. That is, unless the person is a sad, virginal, mommy's basement-dwelling, UFO-obsessed dick with nothing else going for them; in which case no disclosure - EVER - will surely be a nightmare after decades of chasing the Grays with no definitive results.
CDA:If it happens, I'll be amazed. If it doesn't, I'll feel very smug that I was right.
I doubt disclosure will happen any time soon. After thousands, if not millions of UFO reports, this topic is still ridiculed in the media. The Cometa Report is as close as we will come for the time being. Even after high ranking military personnel, astronauts, police, government officials, pilots and engineers have reported seeing strange objects in the sky and sometimes tracked them using radar at speeds beyond man's capability, president Obama still made a joke about Donald Trump wanting to find out about Roswell in an attempt at making him look bad. Disclosure date? Who knows? I wont hold my breath.
By Adam, at Tuesday, June 07, 2011
Disclosure is the adapted poster child of Roswell, which, in turn, was another illegitimate child of the Cold War, that became an irrelevant political movement on the fringe of the fringe, that accomplishes one of the most elaborate end runs around evidence by inference alone.What the disclosure movement is really about are the side dishes and backwaters of larger issues of democracy, that are not relevant to a scientific discovery process regarding these anomalies.When Jefferson and Adams and others drew the plan for this legal entity in name, they lived in a agrarian world. They did not foresee what Eisenhower warned of, which fueled the fire for this straw dog of disclosure.Think of the signs and portents claimed with the Roman empires corruptions and power, if you study these things."Wonders In The Sky" has some wonderful examples of other cultural contexts.Again, it is not what this phenomenon brings to us on a platter, it is what it draws from us, the disclosure movement is one of many such effects.
By Bruce Duensing, at Wednesday, June 08, 2011
Addendum:For me these issues are the litmus test of our culture's emotional maturity, as well as our reliance on institutional structures that cannot reformulate themselves due to the vested interests they create.Disclosure movements are all around us, yet Ufologists fail to realize this context, of how the prosaic informs the paranormal.Adams and Jefferson lived in a simple agrarian based culture on the cusp of discovering the eventual technologies, that gave birth to capitalism. Capitalism versus democracy was not on their plate. Jefferson wisely said a revolution would have to be undertaken periodically to amend their own shortcomings in seeing how this played out after their passing.The Catholic edict upon male sexuality was a stab at feminism, following the evolution of a philosophy to an institution. The one female disciple was wrongfully tagged a whore which took centuries to undo. Again, a ongoing disclosure movement....The institutional control of sexuality is going to lead right to perversions, and this institution to me is the epitome of the same process of the pathological vesting of institutional power.In effect I think we have legislated political perversions that were an outcome of historical processes. Same for disclosure.
There's another point too:If tomorrow, say, there was disclosure, let's say it goes like this. The President says:"We have decided to come clean. Roswell did occur, but it was nothing alien. It was the result of a failed military experiment. I can also tell you we have undertaken Top Secret studies of the abduction mystery, and have concluded that it's a psychological issue rather than a flesh and blood one. So, there's nothing to worry about. Good night."The fact is, those pushing for Disclosure would say: "This is NOT disclosure. This is another layer of the cover-up."This is the biggest problem I have with the disclosure people - they will only accept the statement of disclosure if it supports the idea that aliens exist, and that they had the bad luck to crash at Roswell.Few people give much thought to the idea that if Disclosure comes it may not vindicate the UFO community. Instead, it may reveal we've been duped via a subject (Ufology) that has been exploited to hide the testing of classified aircraft, exotic weaponry etc.But, it's sad indeed that (I guarantee) the disclosure movement will only accept an ET-themed disclosure. If we push for disclosure, we should at least be open-minded and prepared for the possibility that disclosure may be very different to that which some might be anticipating...
By Nick Redfern, at Wednesday, June 08, 2011
With Nicks point about the uncertainty of vindication of a methodology that shoots first and asks questions later in the context of politicking anomalies...is very well taken. Another is Richard Dolan's consistent "observer effect" of mixing his models of our being in a erstwhile Republic, fueled by the corruption of capitalism's patrimony, which paralleled his investigations of federal documents, as a hybridized empirical inference as a statement of fact. A erstwhile moralist that also serves as an intellectual apologist for predicting outcomes, as in his latest tome. The Fall of The New Roman Empire V2.3 What does this have to do with the investigation of the unknown? Such moralizing becomes a quasi-empirical turn about by a sleight of hand, unintentional or otherwise. One word comes to mind..muddled.
Another thought occurred to Nick's well taken observations is a pattern..that is from a psychological point of view what is clearly evident as a generality of this phenomenon is that it is not something we control, yet, I venture if we look deeply, this disclosure meme accomplishes a domestication or anthropomorphic face, thus providing a force of nature, with a human structure. Square pegs become round ones by magical thinking.
'Disclosure' is a catch-word used by ETHers. It is a special case of the wider conspiracy theory, i.e. the idea that a few top people exist who hold the truth about the great world events. Our elected representatives of course never hear these secret truths. If perchance one of them does, he or she is sworn to secrecy and joins the select set. And so on.The sceret Bilderberg Commission allegedy decide how we are all governed, but we the public don't realise this. Likewise there were secret Jewish meetings of over a century ago where the jews planned to take over the world (Protocols of Zion).In more recent times Islamists have their secret plans to vanquish the western world (but only a select few are privy to this). Other small secret groups exist, who 'know' whatever truth is being suppressed from us, the people.The Disclosure group represents only a small portion of the conspiracists who exist among us and, as Nick says, are in it for one thing and one thing only: to get ET presence revealed to the world by the wicked officials in leading western (never eastern or middle-eastern) governments who have denied us this truth for six decades.
By cda, at Wednesday, June 08, 2011
Courtesy of Robert Anton Wilson:"For instance, to return to our starting point, whatever your idea of the "normal" UFO -- whether you consider it a spaceship, a secret US government weapon, a hoax, or a hallucination etc. -- such a general idea will render you incapable of forming a truly objective view of the next UFO that comes along. The only way to cancel such pre-judgement lies in patapsychology (and in general semantics). You must remember the difference between the individual and unpredictible event that gets called a UFO and your past generalizations about "the UFO" or the "normal" UFO."
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