UFO Conjecture(s)

Monday, October 17, 2011

The 1974 Arrubal UFO Symbols (from Jose Antonio Caravaca)

Copyright 2011, InterAmerica, Inc.

We think that symbols, insigniae, and/or letters and writing seen on UFOs are important clues -- perhaps leading to the source of UFOs or something else vital to an explanation of the UFO phenomenon, provided the sighting is bona fide and actual, not a hoax.

Spanish researcher Jose Caravaca provides material from his UFO blog that intrigues:


In Logroño November 29, 1974 an interesting UFO episode occurred.

It happened in the town of Arrubal, about 20 Kilometros from Bilbao, when in a field near the school, a group of 10 schoolchildren, ages between 6 and 12 years were playing football.

About 6 pm, Oscar Sagasti, looked up at the sky and saw a silver, metal-like object with elongated bright orange lights.It moved in a strange way, from one side in a zig-zag motion. Suddenly, in complete silence, it stopped short before the watchful eyes of children. One of the children threw a stone at the object and despite repeated attempts, missed the object as it was too far above them.

It was about four feet long, compared to the size of a vehicle.

But what surprised them most was the existence of letters and symbols on the object.


After a few minutes of watching, the UFO rose slowly until it was lost behind a curtain of clouds.They also saw a red cloud that could belong to another object or perhaps the same from another angle.

The teacher was sure the children were telling the truth, all interviewed separately. They did not contradict their statements.

Then children drew what they saw on the whiteboard in class; some being like a letter, "M", "X" and "L".

"La Gaceta del Norte" sent an editor to cover the story, and readers know the details of the case under the headline: "El OVNI DE LOGROÑO".


This is part of his interview with the students:

It was six o'clock. We had left school. We were playing in the field together. Oscar saw it first.

We looked up in to the sky and saw it. It was quiet. It went from one place to another.

In zig zag?

Yeah, And it also stood still, not moving,[for] like half a minute.

What shape was it?, Was it round?

No, elongated and down. So ...

One of the students, close to the blackboard, drew an ellipse reversed. It was cigar-shaped.

Was it big or small?

Large. More or less like a car. It was high, high, high. Higher than the height of a house.

Did it have lights?

Si. And it had letters.

Lyrics [letters]?

Yes, yes.

And you saw?

A “M”, an “X” and who knows what else...(another student interjected, a ”D” reversed).

One of the students drew, on the blackboard, the mysterious letters, with a sure hand, followed closely by his peers. The boys drew, one by one, all the signs vertically, as seen on the UFO.

Everyone agreed: "The letters were pure (sic) and very large."

At that time, Ana Mari, the Arrubal teacher, told us:

"They also repeated what they saw next day, one by one, separately and without contradictions"

The metal plate, was it shining?

Shining with silver and orange lights. Similar to an airplane.

But it was a plane?

No, no, and not a helicopter. We already know what they are. What we saw did not make any noise.

Did you see anyone?


And the lyrics [letters],were they black?

No, the color of the dish (sic). You could see that some letters were a lot (sic) big and bright. They were like little lights.

Were you scared?

No, no. We told the gentlemen [the object] to come down (then we started throwing stones.)

In total how long did you see it? Five minutes?

Not less.

How did it disappear?

It was slowly getting through the clouds, slowly to Logroño. After that we did not see it. And then,in the clouds, came a red thing. As a light.

As if there was another flying saucer?

All red.

In 1997 "UFO Group" managed to locate some of the protagonists of the story who re-affirmed, point by point, what happened during that football game. UFO Group members, themselves, were able to speak personally with several of the former students who perfectly remembered the event of their childhood.

Joseba Orraca Cardaso interviewed Jose Antonio Ascaciba:


"It was a very long, silent, the witness recalled, like a big cigar with bright reds, above our heads. I remember seeing signs or letters ... X M L ....is all I can remember. We started throwing stones throw at it and soon disappeared."



Nota Bene -- Another UFO event happened in the same time-frame:

Curiously, the press of the time offered the testimony of a 18 year-old on 28 December, flowing through the N-111, between Viana and Logroño, near the intersection of Oyón, about 18:30 pm. The 18 year-old spotted a metal object in the sky and his vehicle was stopped in an inexplicable way. This is his narration:

"... the UFO released a kind of light rays into the engine of the car, as if to explore that part of the vehicle. Moments later, the flying object in the sky was lost The youth could not, implement without major difficulties, the car engine."

Courtesy of Jose Antonio Caravaca, edited by Rich Reynolds (from the submission)


  • A couple of comments..
    The best posts are ones that inject some doubts into personal bias that make one more open minded while remaining critically minded. This post struck me as one that might be a facade of perception regarding the theory that there is a parallel, long term experimental and developmental program regarding avionics and plasma physics. This sounds ridiculous to me, yet my own research has found the remarkable coincidence that most of the scientists who worked for Von Braun had this background and were given major areas of responsibility at NASA that had nothing in their background in having expertise in plasma physics. Did they just "switch" their talents off to do operational work? Or was this a cover? It seemed to me a unusual use of their talents. Another is the disappearance of two other very recognized plasma physics scientists in England shortly after the war. As far as I know, the mystery surrounding their vanishing has never been solved.
    These are rather nagging questions that I have always wished Nick R would look into as a basis for a new book. I have equal doubts. Kecksburg I suspect if any of this is true, falls into a similar pattern to an unintended systemic failure of a avionics platform.
    A collaboration between Nick Cook and Nick R on this would make for a great read if only for purely selfish reasons.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Wednesday, October 19, 2011  

  • And the Arrubal symbols have something to do with plasma physics, Bruce?


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, October 19, 2011  

  • It's a probability game. The first assumption is to take the premise as if true in order to take it apart.
    1. Witnesses in several cases may have been inaccurate in specifics, but may have retained the general geometric arrangement of individual characters while interpreting incorrectly through memory their relationship as a whole.
    2.The scant amount of time to correctly identify accurately what was seen is compounded by the disorientation of the event to the witness. If I scared the bejesus out of you while flashing a complex symbol in your line of sight, think of this probability of general accuracy while missing the specifics.
    3.. Signs such as an upward > make up in composite, M, which the common characteristic is the arrow arranged as N etc, or for that matter the arrangement of > in the other incident.
    What is interesting is the short span of time this arrangement was seen never to be seen again, which may ( using probability) signify a specific device that had a strictly contingent, short life in experimentation rather than a full fledged reusable craft. It may have been a failure. Another has to do with my reading up at work at Los Alamos ( that is known) on energy devices.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Wednesday, October 19, 2011  

  • BTW..if you launch an experimental craft as a dynamic test, think for a moment why do common aircraft have markings? If you see XYZ this is a covertly developed experimental craft. If a anomalous report comes in, it's ours. If you see it in an official capacity although not in the loop as to specifics as to it's purpose, either A. do not report it B. report it only to personnel 1, 2, or 3. Compartmentalize reports.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Wednesday, October 19, 2011  

  • Bruce:

    The transient nature of the "craft" is acceptable to me; it was either a prototypical device/craft or something else with a limited "life-span" as you note.

    However, the mental faculties (or memory) of the students is, unlike that in older folks, not amenable to the usual quirks that beset adults, generally.

    The remembrance(s) of the students was captured almost immediately after the event, and their retention would have been ameliorated by the "scare factor."

    Yet the students appear not to have been terrified by the object or the event; they threw stones at it.

    The symbols seem to have been reproduced as they were seen, unadulterated by the usual contingencies of memory or psychical displacement.

    I think the symbols or letters have meaning, but in what context is yet to be determined.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, October 19, 2011  

  • One last comment..Think of the FAA and other agencies responsible for air safety in relation to X craft, and registry symbols. Do they leave the FAA in the dark while launching atmospheric experiments. Do they use public domain registry markings that can be traced? Another shot in the dark, look at the FAA's silence on the subject of UFO in relation to air safety..can they be candid on X craft tied to national security interests? Oh yes AXF 319 is an experimental weapons platform. Leslie K has been pushing this issue..these craft may be under a security blanket that requires they have limited identifiably that is very compartmentalized..hence "mystery markings"

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Wednesday, October 19, 2011  

  • ..The remembrance(s) of the students was captured almost immediately after the event, and their retention would have been ameliorated by the "scare factor."

    A game of probabilities. One set of circumstances may not reflect one size fits all in several events that may be related. Another is studies of witness identification in relation to accuracy which is been demonstrated in other applications to be poor. The issue is 100% accuracy. The arrangement of "if" A is B etc, is always an interesting game.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Wednesday, October 19, 2011  

  • Perhaps we need to build a replica, place it at the same location, the same number of witnesses, the same relational distance to the object. Gather them without telling them specifics about the experiment. Have them masked. Replicate the exposure time of the witnesses to a similar complex arrangement of markings. Mask them when time is up.
    Ask each after a equivalent to the lapsed time the original witnesses had to replicate the symbol.
    What would we find? Perhaps this could be done on the cheap.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Wednesday, October 19, 2011  

  • An interesting suggestion Bruce, and a possible "research" effort.

    Maybe Jose Caravaca's "Grupo UFO" in Spain will take it up.

    However, since the episode was so long ago -- 1974 -- I don't know what such an effort would produce that pertains to UFOs today, since UFOs don't, as I keep noting here, show up with symbols or act in the same ways that they did before in the years before 1974.

    We are dealing with a different phenomenon perhaps, or one that is acting in ways that have evolved or devolved, or just changed for some unknown reason.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, October 19, 2011  

  • Bruce:

    Re your comment mentioning me: I have actually given much thought in the last year to writing about other things beynd just Forteana.

    I wouldn't mind doing something like a political conspiracy, a true-life murder, or a historical mystery.

    But, I've also given much thought about doing something totally different next year - not even connected to writing.

    We'll see...

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Wednesday, October 19, 2011  

  • "We are dealing with a different phenomenon perhaps, or one that is acting in ways that have evolved or devolved, or just changed for some unknown reason."
    I agree, however it might clear up ( to some extent), if you will, some persistent, old baggage. I was thinking that the Lonnie Zamora sighting might be easier to test.

    Whatever you chose ( if it is in the public domain) I'm sure it will prove as interesting as always.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Wednesday, October 19, 2011  

  • Another aspect of this event is that there were multiple eyewitnesses, multiple perceptions and memories of the same event. If interviewed for a crime scene, each would have / should have been interviewed separately, and their recollections compared. However, since they were questioned as a group, I'd suggest that each witness helped fill in the gaps of the others, as they discussed the memory as a group, reinforcing the truth of the event. Sounds like the basis for another social psychology experiment. Can an unusual group experience be better recalled as individually interviewed, with results merged, or as group interviewed, with mutually reinforcing recollections?
    Wayne Haufler

    By Blogger WAHAUF, at Wednesday, October 19, 2011  

  • Wayne:

    You make a valid point and raise a legitimate caveat; that is, group interviews allow a reinforcement of information, information that may be in error.

    Witnesses should be interviewed separately to prevent a corruption of what actually occurred.

    But in this case, one can get a general idea of what the students saw, even if they have provided support information.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, October 20, 2011  

Post a Comment

<< Home