UFO Conjectures

Thursday, November 17, 2011

Images and the UFO Reality

Copyright 2011, InterAmerica, Inc.

Tristan Eldritch provided a link in a comment to our piece, below, about images that prefigured UFO sightings.

Tristan’s image-find was this:


And he proposes that the image influenced how ufologists and Roswellian witnesses depicted the 1947 event from 1980 onward.

Tristan’s suggestion is not without merit.

While the entity and crashed saucer were not archetypal in 1957 when the magazine cover appeared, the images of both (entity and saucer) have become archetypal, as you discover by getting or reading this book:


Man and His Symbols was the last piece of work compiled by Carl Jung, before he died I n1961.

It is supplemented with essays by noted Jungians: Franz, Jacobi, Jaffé, and Henderson.

I imagine that the first host of UFO writers and researchers (ufologists thereafter) were science fiction addicts, who indulged in sci-fi imagery on book and magazine covers, which influenced their thinking and conclusions.

Jung writes:

"…cultural symbols…retain much of their original numinosity or “spell.” One is aware that they can evoke a deep emotional response in some individuals, and this psychic charge makes them function in much the same was as prejudices." [Man and His Symobols, Page 83]

Since, as Roswell skeptics have noted, witnesses didn’t get on board the Roswell mythos until the late 1970s, after books appeared, spurred by Stanton Friedman’s chance encounter with Jesse Marcel Sr., it was the pictorial overlay of ufologists (those sci-fi addicts) that created the Roswell scenario and images that prevail, and which Tristan’s sci-fi cover portrays.

Has such imagery entered the category called the “collective unconscious” that Jung thought was endemic to mankind’s mental make-up?

Jung’s thesis calls for such archetypal imagery to be part of the human mental genetic after a hundred years of prominence.

But the Roswell incident, because it resonated dynamically in the context of the Cold War anxieties and mankind’s possible extinction, one can suggest that the collective unconscious is incorporating images (archetypal symbols) faster than the evolutionary time-frame that Jung indicated.

This allows such images as that which Tristan found to be part of the human mental fabric sooner than the time-frame of Jung’s collective unconscious.

This conjecture fits with the mythic contention that some Roswell skeptics use to explain the incident and its aftermath; that is, skeptics say that Roswell is a self-generating myth, and they have a case.

Of course, for a myth to be promulgated, something has to generate the myth; a “seed” of some kind is necessary for a myth to germinate.

Roswell’s reported “flying disc crash” was that seed.

And the myth is “watered” by science-fiction addled writers and “researchers” – the so-called ufologists who keep the myth alive, much as the disciples of Homer’s Iliad has kept that myth alive.



  • I am not certain that I could ever buy into the notion that an obscure pulp cover basically defined the appearance of the crashed Roswell saucer's occupants. This being as a result of the specifically impressioned collective unconscious. However, I am also not certain that an "alien saucer" ever crashed in Roswell to begin with.
    There is just way too much timing going on with respect for project paperclip and it's more so esoteric offshoots. It's that damn human factor again coming home to roost.
    For years and years I idolized and really held up Stanton Friedman as the ufologist we all need to aim to aspire to in terms of integrity and qualifications. Then, last year I heard him state something in an interview that basically resulted in my lower jaw shattering into a million pieces as it fell off my face and hit the floor in utter astonishment. After a caller asked Stanton if he thought that many of the current UFO sightings may be due to secret, or black project technology. Emphatically, he denied as much stating that we are at most a year or two outside of public awareness with respect to these types of technological developments. What!? That's one of the most insanely ridiculous things I have ever heard in my life!
    Then it hit me like a ton of bricks right between the old peepers. This man COULD (note how I am very uncertain about what I am about to contend) be the most successfully planted UFO disinformation agent yet. Could he be specifically engaged in the basic propigation of subterfuge? Subterfuge that would allow the UFO matter to be attributed to aliens when in reality it represented a new and unrefined technology gleaned from the spoils of war by the USA?
    One pivotal move in such a direction could offset the true nature of UFO investigation to the effect the riddle could be made "unsolvable" because of a falsely substantiated trail of alien responsibility.
    So, in response to your excellent post, IMO, no on Tristan's supposition, but a holy amen on the Jung tie in. I believe that the Roswell affair has been used to manipulate public perception as to the origin and potential of UFOs. (Jung's symbolism and imagery being incredibly furthered by the seeming legitimacy of Friedman's public stance on the matter in the public eyes of those already sporting their Jungian impressions)

    Please remember that I am not making a claim that S. Friedman is anything other than who he states he is. It's just utterly odd that he would do his best to dismiss the human element as a result of totally bogus information, and frankly, he would make a PERFECT plant for just such a cause.

    By Blogger Jeff Davis, at Thursday, November 17, 2011  

  • This is a provocative post. One of many. I just posted a sort piece on developing parallel live dats streams
    to determine the metrics of this phenomenon using existing sources that simply require coordination and analysis. This is a phenomenon that exhibits several layers that are dependent on their congruity in order to manifest. Your post is a piece of this puzzle. I might be completely wrong of course, but I think unless we begin to measure what this phenomenon represents, without the bias of labels, we will be forever reinforcing our own biases. Sigh.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Thursday, November 17, 2011  

  • Jeff...

    There are some visitors here who will succumb to your Stanton Friedman allegation.

    But Stan is essentially right: the UFO sightings have been around too long to be accounted for by prototypical/black op technology but some current sightings are surely misperceptions of advanced aircraft by the U.S. and maybe a few other countries.

    Mr. Friedman has become the ogre of ufology because he's the primary face of the pseudo-science.

    But Stan is no Evil disinformation agent.

    He's a guy whose been baffled by UFOs longer tham some reading this have been alive.

    He's been screwy about some things -- MJ-12 for instance, and his Roswell/Corona suppositions have been curdled by him accepting some testimony as gospel.

    Then there's his Betty Hill acceptance, without caveats; his "research" rather shallow.

    Stan may be many things,some good, some bad, but he's no disinformation agent.

    I can hear him gagging at the insinuation.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, November 17, 2011  

  • And Bruce, the method of measurement would be....?


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, November 17, 2011  

  • Bruce informs me that the measurement methodogy is included in his posting at his blog:



    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, November 17, 2011  

  • Rich,
    Do you think it's possible that Stan could be *that* unaware that he would state as much about the CURRENT public revelation of classified technology as he did recently? Seems incredibly odd, uninformed, and even a tad arrogant.

    I agree with your point about UFOs being around too long to be solely accredited to human technological developments, even though that was not Stan's point that I brought up here, but I for one would bet serious money that at very least 50% of the currently reported UFOs are privately funded, human based, technology.

    As I said, I have looked up to Stan for so many years and have most all his books. It's good to learn of your own convictions concerning such a figurehead in the UFO community. It just blew my mind to hear as much coming from him when I know that he must assuredly know better. It does seem that many from the good ol' mainstream science theater seem to tout the moniker "if I don't know about it, it doesn't exist" So typical.

    By Blogger Jeff Davis, at Thursday, November 17, 2011  

  • @Bruce
    Been reading your "open letter" and doing my level best to comprehend. As usual, just over the top fascinating.

    Man, I wish you the VERY BEST. Godspeed in your recovery Sir.

    By Blogger Jeff Davis, at Thursday, November 17, 2011  

  • Jeff...

    Stan is old -- ancient even.

    You know my thoughts on senility.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, November 17, 2011  

  • Could it be that the phenomenon itself is so poorly perceived by the limited range of our imperfect inborn sensing equipment that we're left to describe and define it with only collective myths, images, and archetypes because we have no other context to explain it?

    As for Rosewell, it's already passed into the mists of Camelot. The legend is far more seductive than the truth could ever be.

    By Blogger purrlgurrl, at Thursday, November 17, 2011  

  • PG:

    Two good points.

    The Roswell [sic] story (or mythos) has become greater than the incident that spawned it, arguably.

    (Some would dispute that, of course.)

    And we don't have the faculties to deal with UFOs; they seem to be larger than life or our imaginative renderings.

    But, like the Universe or the concept of God, we are obligated to come to grips with such conundrums.

    Otherwise, our existence is more meaningless than it appears to be.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, November 17, 2011  

  • @Purrlgurrl

    On point one: Absofrickenlutely! (IMO) At very least some of the time because we do as much with MANY other applications of awareness within our environment.

    On point two: Yeah, hype has a way of doing that. The Roswell event has become like a feature movie wherein the previews so exceed that actual movie content that most can't help but walk away disappointed.

    The sad truth (IMO) purrlgurrl is that certain high profile forums have the same precise effect on the human psyche, only in reverse. They give us so much garbage upfront that you walk away wondering why you wasted so much time even considering the UFO phenomena. They poison the Fortean well with their circus extraordinaire ultra pseudo shenanigans,giving the whole thing the immensely devalued taste of stale cotton candy and popcorn.

    By Blogger Jeff Davis, at Friday, November 18, 2011  

  • Geez, Jeff...

    I glad we're not one of those "high profile forums" you're excoriating.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, November 18, 2011  

  • No Sir. I may be wrong in my definitions, but I view this as a blog I participate in rather than a forum. To be clearer and more concise, I am most predominantly referring to ATS which I loathe. No, I have never been kicked off, ever. It just turns my stomach.

    By Blogger Jeff Davis, at Friday, November 18, 2011  

  • The ads on ATS, Jeff, are hard to take.

    And sometimes ATS "borrows" postings of ours.

    It was, once, a super site, and good source for UFO info.

    That seems to have changed.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, November 18, 2011  

  • I've been a member on ATS for years and have posted some good, and not so good, threads. Mostly they've been focused on academic history and UFOs. For example, a recent thread sought to explain the Rosmead UFO as Venus and ball lightning whilst another had fun with the Beaufort Farm case.

    Sites like ATS can only be as good as the content people post; this means that a good core of members raise the bar and another core of members insist on posting flat-out garbage and deliberate hoaxes/lies. I'm part of a recognisable, informal group who take the time to dispute these guys using critical thinking and references.

    Whereas this blog is populated with thoughtful, intelligent adults, ATS has a membership that includes 13 year olds and upwards. To me, this means that a lot of the nonsense is generated by people who honestly don't yet know any better. This is where, and why, 'thoughtful, intelligent' adults can be helpful.

    By Blogger Kandinsky, at Saturday, November 19, 2011  

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