The UFO Iconoclast(s)

Tuesday, December 27, 2011

The Roswell “Dream Team” is off to a bad start!


Kevin Randle’s blog, the epicenter of the new attempt by some Roswellian “experts” to get at the heart of the Roswell incident, decluttering it, we suppose, of all the erroneous and biased accretions the episode has acquired since about 1980, is immersed in another round of hyperactive back-and-forths of the old kind.

Skeptics Lance Moody, Christopher Allen, and Gilles Fernandez are contending with David Rudiak, the latest ufologist to join the sobriqueted Roswell Dream Team. Even open-minded Nick Redfern has been drawn into the fray, defending broadsides from Roswell neophytes.

Unfortunately the comments have descended into the same arguments that suffused Mr. Randle’s blog previously, several times actually, in the past few years.

If Mr. Randle and his gang of dreamers are to make a new mark – some inroads to the Roswell story that bespeak new information and new approaches – he (Mr. Randle) has to jettison the regurgitated arguments that David Rudiak has puked up again, to counter the skeptical effluvia that always drowns the Roswell event with biases as ugly as those fostered by Roswell ET fanatics.

The slate started out clean, but has now been muddied by the same old, same old stuff that all of us are so damned tried of hearing, ad infinitum, ad nauseum, ad eternum.

Mr. Randle has got to shut his portal until such as time as he and his team can provide something completely new about the 1947 matter.

If he doesn’t do that, he will scuttle an opportunity to garner a thoughtful and intelligent new appraisal of Roswell, one that isn’t beclouded by the detritus that Rudiak, Sorcerer, CDA, Moody, et al, keep shoveling on to the plate of intellectual research and rediscovery.

RR

43 Comments:

  • We'll see what they can come up with. At this point, as I've written before, I think the back end is more likely to prove fruitful than the front end, but you never know.

    By Blogger Frank Stalter, at Tuesday, December 27, 2011  

  • And here I thought he was just trying to make some shekels putting out another Roswell book with a rotating cast of chapter authors (the "Dream Team") re-covering the already over-plowed Roswell ground (go ahead, call me cynical). But, apparently, the Dream Team would much rather tear into each other's flesh than play nice long enough to get to the royalties part.

    By Blogger purrlgurrl, at Tuesday, December 27, 2011  

  • To be fair, none of the "Dream Team" seems to fighting with each other.

    It does appear that their starting point is to stipulate that anything previously written by any of them is sacrosanct and will not be questioned.

    I brought up a few nagging problems and Kevin quickly dismissed them.

    Let me give you an example:

    One of the problems is an imaginary diary entry of some Roswell nuns (purportedly describing a UFO near the time of the supposed crash). I noticed that Randle/Schmidt inexplicably paraphrased that entry in their book instead of directly quoting it. I smelled a rat right then and asked (way back in the 1990's) Kevin (through the late Pat Packard) what the actual text was.

    I never got an answer.

    And there is no answer because even though the Kevin/Schmidt book cited the diary entry as though it actually existed, Kevin now admits that he never actually saw the entry and simply took Don Schmidt's word that it existed.

    It has still never turned up and very well may be an...embellishment, to put it gently .

    This was before Schmidt's spectacular implosion. Now apparently everyone has forgotten just why Schmidt was laughed out of the field.

    This little fact isn't really important EXCEPT to demonstrate that one person's dream team may be another's collection of hacks.

    I think Kevin wanted to honorably try something new. It seems he and his team do not have the will to consider the possibility that they might have been wrong about anything.

    For instance, Kevin has already said that Mogul is PROVEN to not be a possibility. Only in the UFO field would someone have the gall to emphatically that they know exactly where a balloon might or might not have drifted 50 years after the event!

    In the end, the Dream Team result is pre-determined. Sort of like believers complain that the Condon study was structured (even while many surely don't see the irony of this current situation).

    Best,

    Love Ya,

    Lance

    By Blogger Lance, at Wednesday, December 28, 2011  

  • Lance, buddy...

    Your observations about Kevin and the statements made (or not) at his blog are efficacious, surely.

    But you, and others, keep feeding the monster, and thus encourage or abet the ramblings of rabid Roswell fanatics, like Rudiak.

    The "debate" at Kevin's blog is unseemly and certainly not academic in nature; it's merely an ongoing rehash of the same stuff, over and over again.

    Nick Redfern knows and has remarked how senseless it is to keep reworking the same old material, yet even he has succumbed to the need to answer people, like Synergy, who seems to be a ufological newbie.

    And intelligent persons, like you and Kevin (and CDA, Gilles) continue to engage in the same non-productive arguments that filled his blog comments last year, and the year before that.

    It's annoying. That's my point.

    Intelligent fellows wasting their time and that of visitors to Kevin's blog who seek something new regarding Roswell.

    Say what you will about Anthony Bragalia but he, at least, continues to seek out new sources of information and information itself; information that hasn't been dirtied by the fanatic ramblings of Roswell enthusiasts of which you, me, and others are part.

    Kevin's attempted new approach has lost any cachet it initially sparked by dredging up the same sh*t that has filled his blog comments for a few years now.

    Rudiak's anti-Mogul stance is rabid and cockeyed but his enthusiasm for his views can be applauded, if one wants to think that the Mogul part of the Roswell story is important.

    It isn't.

    Roswell's event is muffled by Rudiak's obsession with Mogul and hoary details from the media at the time.

    Sorcerer (Don) is also consumed by the media accounts of 1947.

    That's a wasted effort as thee media accounts then are just as flawed -- maybe more so -- that they are now.

    (And I know something about media.)

    Kevin's team was supposed to bypass that old stuff, not endorse it or bring it back to the table.

    However, Kevin's blog remains the Pandora's box of Roswell nonsense by ET proponents and skeptics alike.

    It may be too late to correct the situation and rekindle the idea of a CSI cold case examination of Roswell, by a (ill-named) Dream Team.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, December 28, 2011  

  • But you, and others, keep feeding the monster

    Oh, the irony...

    By Blogger Paul Kimball, at Wednesday, December 28, 2011  

  • I think Kevin maybe wanted to honorably try something new too...

    But as Lance pointed above (at least I readed him like that), it is becoming step by step like a sort of an Ecumenical Council as there existed in the History.
    A strict Assembly between the ones who have written the past 2 decades Roswell narratives (ETH craft and bodies version I mean) and reciting their partitions ad nauseam :(
    And this despite the 1995 "schism" between Kevin and Don Schmitt: pouf pouf "forgotten".

    I expected a sort of a "white paper" + eventualy new informations. There is not it seems what it is processing.

    And now with David Rudiak recent join, I think Kevin's wishful thinking if he have one as I believe is already becomed an utopia. Dommage.

    Regards,

    Gilles Fernandez

    By Blogger Gilles. F., at Wednesday, December 28, 2011  

  • You need to sit back and enjoy the fun, the debate. In fact you could instigate a little debate yourself, in 3 parts:

    1. How long will it be before the 'dream team' breaks up in acrimony?

    2. Who will be the first to drop out?

    3. Will anything new and substantive be discovered by the 'dream team'?

    By Blogger cda, at Wednesday, December 28, 2011  

  • Paul,

    You're not implying that I (or we) also keep the Roswell thing alive, are you?

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, December 28, 2011  

  • Rich:

    If people specifically bring up my book in relation to a Roswell debate (or in this case, a Dream Team debate), I do feel the need to comment, specifically if people ask questions that impact on my views/book on Roswell.

    But, you're right: endlessly analyzing every small aspect of the case (timelines, debris field sizes etc) is pointless, as I note in my replies to CDA in the Dream Team thread.

    The reality is that Roswell has reached stalemate position, and can only move forward with proof. More witness testimony does not equal proof - as many Roswell researchers seem to think. Testimony is just that - testimony.

    Unless the Dream Team finds proof, Roswell will not advance beyond the "I think this, she thinks that, they think this etc etc."

    The Dream Team should be focusing on finding a way to get the hard evidence - if such exists. More words from old men achievs nothing, other than it's more words.

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Wednesday, December 28, 2011  

  • Nick:

    I understand that you want the record to be correct.

    The problem lies not with you but with Mr. Randle who allows newbies and asses to make comments that are so incorrect and mischievous that someone like you has to answer them; you have to set the record straight.

    This same thing happens here.

    We've been getting comments about items by Anthony Bragalia, Jose Caravaca, and even me -- comments that stray from the point or are meant to evoke response or non-relevant argumentation. We do NOT allow their comments to appear.

    We ignore them or delete them altogether.

    One guy continues to try and drag me back into a old complaint of his, which is why we "moderate" comments in the first place.

    We'd like to leave comments open and without a need to moderate, which is time-consuming and irritating, but because the UFO topic attracts malcontents and psychotics, we have to be vigilant.

    Kevin Randle allows his cohorts and friends to run a monopoly on comments, while he sometimes, as he's done with me, deletes responses that prick those he counts as supporters or friends, no matter how stupid those friends of his are.

    So, again, I know that you (and others) want to keep the record clear and your Roswell stance unsullied by misinterpretation by ignorant persons.

    I like Tony Bragalia's position: he doesn't get embroiled in such back-and-forths, as his time and intelligence are more mportant than hobnobbing with quidnuncs who comment just to be noticed.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, December 28, 2011  

  • Whether Roswell occurred according to A or B or a variation of C, I think most agree that this has been the major impetus to stilt, suppress and stereotype the phenomenon, playing right into the hands of those who originally manipulated it, thus this is a central factor why the whole topic has become redundant, cliched and purposeless. Navigating dry canals.

    Full of sound and fury signifying nothing outside of biased opinions in search of justifying themselves. The Dream Team as a self ingratiating moniker is a confederacy of a one note symphony who are as clueless as the rest of us.

    Their ongoing self promotion as a rich source of insight is an insight into their pathologies...like the OCD patient who repetitively brushes their teeth. Once was sufficient.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Wednesday, December 28, 2011  

  • Bruce, as usual, you are spot on!

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, December 28, 2011  

  • All -

    The discussions over on my blog have little to do with the direction of our team. We are not fighting among ourselves and are pursuing our research.

    Since Lance said that David's work had been refuted, I believe that David has the right to argue the point and while those arguments are all drawn on older information, it has nothing to do with the direction the team is going today.

    There are ongoing investigations in which there are some delicate negotiations. I've had more than one opportunity spoiled by a premature disclosure of information so I'm not going to respond to certain claims and allegations until all the information has been acquired and then the team will make sure that it all is disclosed.

    Finally, I have said before and I'll say it again, contrary to the myth, Project Mogul was not highly classified. The equipment was off the shelf, the Mogul engineers briefed the soldiers in Roswell requesting their help, and pictures of Mogul appeared in the newspapers on July 10, 1947. Yes, the ultimate purpose was classified, but not the stuff going on in New Mexico.

    By Blogger KRandle, at Wednesday, December 28, 2011  

  • No, rich, not implying it at all. I'm stating it outright. You feed the beast as much as anyone. Hence the irony.

    PK

    By Blogger Paul Kimball, at Wednesday, December 28, 2011  

  • Paul...

    I do think you are off the mark a bit.

    Our Roswell posts, mine particularly, try to take a unique or unusual view of Roswell.

    Bragalia's posts deal with memory metal or something equally oblique, not part of the regurgitated dreck that infuses Kevin's blog comments, for instance.

    Roswell is, for me, a legitimate incident for continuing perusal; that's why I support Kevin's Dream Team.

    But if the same bromides and same arguments continue, unabated, without a new slant, I find that tiresome.

    I would expect you, of all persons, to be more discerning, noticing that we do try to take a vantage point about Roswell that is different than what has been the case previously, by others.

    I don't like to be tarred by a broadbrush that isn't exactly right.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, December 28, 2011  

  • Kevin:

    I think many people agree that Mogul has to be deeply questioned re providing an adequate explanation for Roswell.

    But, in my view, for us to continue to pore over every aspect of Mogul (17 years after the USAF came out with its Mogul report) is pointless.

    It's the same with my "words from old men" comment. While testimony from old-timers who may know something is certainly valuable, and those that have pursued it are to be applauded, but it has never led us to the Holy Grail, so to speak, which is the hard evidence of what happened at Roswell.

    That suggests to me, decades after Roswell research began in earnest, a new approach is needed that goes beyond just collecting and analyzing new data, and addressing every aspect of Mogul balloons, the Fort Worth photos etc.

    At best, all that does is tell s there was possibly a cover-up of something that extended beyond weather-balloons and Mogul balloons, but it doesn't - ever - prove what that cover-up was focused on.

    For that reason, I hope the Dream Team will not just focus on tracking down more old people with stories to relate but which ultimately don't provide access to the proof, but instead I hope the Dream Team gets together and tries to find a way to access the proof - physically and literally.

    If proof/artifacts exist, I'll be the first to admit I don't know how we might access it (short of the stupid approach of Gary McKinnon, and look where that got him), but as I see it, proof and artifacts are all that will solve things. More testimony won't and can't. And that goes for endless debating on when crash-test dummies were first used, or what Cavitt knew, what Rickett said etc.

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Wednesday, December 28, 2011  

  • I adopt Nick's position, entirely.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, December 28, 2011  

  • The National Security Act of 1947 was signed by United States President Harry S. Truman on July 26, 1947, extremely close to the date of the alleged Roswell event which completely realigned and reorganized the relationships in domestic and foreign intelligence amongst the U.S. Armed Forces, foreign policy, and Intelligence Community apparatus in the aftermath of World War II.
    However mission creep had been going on for some time in terms of indirectly influencing perceptions with plausible denial involved in foreign political operations against the USSR in Italy and elsewhere. Concurrently, there was a very substantial USSR intelligence operation operating here domestically prior to the advent of Kim Philby, among others being exposed regarding our nuclear technology, and the Roswell sleight of hand fits perfectly into a high stakes scenario of national security, patriotism and secrecy. No one except Nick has looked at the larger context that framed the peripheral events regarding the Roswell hoax. You cannot solve the Roswell mess by simply reading into the minutia of the event itself. This error of myopia is incredibly naive. Misdirection of attention that will draw a focus of effort toward gaining information in order to coral the bad actors is old ploy..works like a charm. Reeling in probation violators by informing them they won a prize that they only need to collect in person is a variation of this ruse, or hoax that still applies.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Wednesday, December 28, 2011  

  • Kevin Randle stated:
    "Finally, I have said before and I'll say it again, contrary to the myth, Project Mogul was not highly classified. [...] Yes, the ultimate purpose was classified, but not the stuff going on in New Mexico."
    TOP SECRET is not a high classification for you, Kevin Randle?
    Maybe an agreement could be reached when examining HISTORIOGRAPHICAL sources?

    For example, in the memo of july 1946, the 8th (8 july 1946), coming from the HQ/AMC, 3 points concerning Mogul are stipulated as classified TOP SECRET :
    a) Precise data as to concerning the exact emplacement of the measuring instruments.
    b) Scientific observations and measurements that have military application.
    c) Detailed methods of measuring resuts.

    So Mogul and TOP SECRET is not a "myth", as Kevin Randle stated. a contrario TOP SECRET and Mogul exist "together".

    Gilles Fernandez

    By Blogger Gilles. F., at Wednesday, December 28, 2011  

  • Bruce:

    I have often thought that Bernard Newman (who had intriguing ties to the world of officialdom) knew something of all this.

    His 1948 novel, The Flying Saucer, is a fascinating tale of faked UFO crashes (including one in New Mexico!), a faked alien autopsy (!), and the manipulation of nations and beliefs.

    A few good articles have been written on Newman's book, including this one at the Magonia site:

    http://magonia.haaan.com/1997/the-mystic-and-the-spy-two-early-british-ufo-writers/

    Somewhere in all this, a non-fiction book on Newman and his UFO knowledge is surely beckoning...

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Wednesday, December 28, 2011  

  • Nick,
    I am familiar with the Magonia article, and also found it very provocative as it may apply to the role of domestic counter intelligence
    and straw dogs. What is interesting is the now you see it now you don't stagecraft concerning the manipulation of "information" out of Roswell, as I suspect it, which neatly makes for no need to cover or conceal a real asset but the ruse itself, so there is no real world potential losses of any strategic importance, while planting and dangling bait for consumption in terms of ferreting out moles, or other pests.
    It is just as compelling a need to bury the truth as it is in enforcing a lie, to get to the truth as many a civil police or intelligence interrogator knows, in the lie of knowing more than what the suspects know.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Wednesday, December 28, 2011  

  • BTW..After the 1947 National Security Act, James Forrestal was the first Secretary of Defense but he had extremely limited options whereas concurrently James Jesus Angleton was the strange demented genius of the CIA, who interestingly never was the figurehead but served as the chief operations officer under some five Directors which is pretty good evidence, he knew the game more than well. Angleton was the originator of secret detentions related to torture in terms of a major Soviet intelligence asset. Of course Sec Forrestal's later suicide ( the night before his release the following day from the hospital) as investigated by the government commission, found ambiguously the he "died from a fall." I suspect that Angleton took more than a few secrets to his grave, among them, what did or did not occur at Roswell as well as what likely took Forrestal out of the game permanently. He was the master of the house of mirrors, a compellingly strange figure to me, not in a good way.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Wednesday, December 28, 2011  

  • "found ambiguously the he "died from a fall.""

    Nothing ambiguous about it, it was a 14 story drop. The impact was so hard it took his leg off.

    By Blogger Frank Stalter, at Wednesday, December 28, 2011  

  • And he was pushed or thrown out the window.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, December 28, 2011  

  • Haha, I don't believe that for a second. One of these days I'll write up my opinions on Forrestal, my theory is quite different than any others I've seen and is, naturally, the correct interpretation of events. ;O)

    By Blogger Frank Stalter, at Wednesday, December 28, 2011  

  • I suspect the knotted bathrobe belt was a plant, but none of this had anything to do with UFO's, but you have to realize Angleton led a covert organization within the CIA, but back to Roswell..Angleton had a metaphor using orchids..read if you want, this diary entry concerning Angleton's management philosophy concerning them. I strongly suspect Roswell was an orchid.
    http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/diary/angleton.htm

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Wednesday, December 28, 2011  

  • The Roswell myth is the millstone around ufology's neck, it drags anybody who takes it seriously as a crashed UFO craft blabla into a Stygian hell from which there is no escape. And then you complain about not being taken seriously..

    I was shocked to see Chris Rutkowski joining the so-called 'Dream Team', because an otherwise serious scientist and serious ufologist is now tainted with the Roswell circus mess and the very worst of ufology associated with the former. Chris get out while you still can. This is a big big mistake..

    Roswell is of interest solely from the POV of sociology and folklore. The malaise in US ufology could not be worse, look what's going on at MUFON? Look at the journal and how it has deteriorated in quality, almost beyond belief. It's practically at the level of the National Enquirer now. Maybe it's all apropriate - this is the age of the facebook generation.

    The real meat of ufology lies elsewhere, and incorporates everything from cutting-edge physics to comparative religion, parapsychology, consciousness studies, sociology, shamanism, mythology and shock horror occult lore. Never mind the heavy case load of decades worth of evidential cases from around the world within ufology itself that are disgracefully neglected in favour of the Roswell garbage. This is nothing less than scandalous. Talk about playing into the hands of the pseudoskeptics. 'The Dream Team' couldn't do worse if it were a trojan horse planted by the CSI/Skeptical Inquirer. One needs to look beyond the little cages you have built for yourselves.

    Poor J Allen Hynek, must be rolling in his grave..

    By Blogger Lawrence, at Thursday, December 29, 2011  

  • What will be interesting is what happens if the Dream Team does actually make a big breakthrough and finds something (proof-wise) on Roswell.

    If it points in the direction of ET, or something Fortean, that will be seen as a victory.

    But, if it points towards a military experiment of some sort, I wonder how many of the Dream Team might conclude this is another Mogul type cover story.

    In other words, we know some of the Dream Team fully believe that aliens crashed at Roswell, which surely begs the question: if they find something solid (real documents on the affair - not MJ12 leaked type papers) will it only be accepted if it meets those already-in-place ET beliefs of some of the Dream Team?

    I suspect that if something does surface, then we may well see dissent in the Dream team ranks if the revelation is not what some hope or want it to be.

    On this path, I can think of nothing worse than having the Dream Team (hypothetically, of course) finding an old archived file on Roswell that points in the direction of a military balloon (but not Mogul or weather-based), and then have the 17-year Mogul Balloon debate replaced by a 17-year-long "Project X Balloon" debate.

    I hope everyone in this project (which, in theory, I actually do think is a good idea) is going to be wholly impartial and willing to accept the evidence - if it surfaces as evidence, not just hearsay, opinion, rumor or testimony.

    Because, if it isn't accepted, it will be a case of yet more arguing and debating on the next revelation. Yawn...

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Thursday, December 29, 2011  

  • Nick:

    I've already gotten a note from Anthony Bragalia, slightly irritated that I've even suggested the "Dream Team" is off to a bad start.

    Tony's not feeling well, so I assume he hasn't read the comments here or those at Keivin's blog.

    If he had, he would see the acrimony that Mr. Rudiak has stirred up and the rabid responses to his comments from the dug-in skeptics.

    There are biases on both sides, and aggravation by some (our pal Paul Kimball) that we've even broached Roswell again, and continue to do so.

    In my defense, and I think you agree, something happened at Roswell, and it wasn't a minor incident.

    For me, the press release about a crashed flying disk doesn't make sense, unless something like a crashed disk actually happened.

    Now I don't mean that an actual ET craft crashed, although one may have.

    I imagine an accident that stirred the military (or Haut) to write that a flying disk was found.

    If that wasn't the case, the "accident" was bizarre enough to cause a flying disk association.

    Also, while I often dismiss witness memory-accounts, I can envision that some of those witnesses did, indeed, experience something that seemed otherworldly to them, after the fact.

    Moreover, Bragalia has accumulated many obtuse references to debris and other shenanigans that indicate a totally weird scenario at Roswell in 1947.

    Unfortunately, Tony, having been chastised for his early pronouncements, is gun shy and won't disclose what he's found until he has crossed every "t" and dotted every "i."

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, December 29, 2011  

  • Rich:

    Well, I think that is actually very good that Tony is holding off until he's sure of what he has etc.

    And I agree with you that something significant happened at Roswell.

    And I think the scenario of a team of people focusing on the case, with a view to getting to the heart of what happened is a good one.

    But (there's always a but!), people being people, and Roswell being a highly emotive case, I wonder how the DT might respond if they find something they don't like or agree with...

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Thursday, December 29, 2011  

  • Nick:

    Although I am quick to critique some of the fellows on the Dream Team, I do think they are honorable men, and will, if need be, accept findings that go against their long-held beliefs.

    The skeptics likewise.

    These guys are only entrenched in their favorite scenarios (the ETH for example) because there is and has been no definitive explanation for the Roswell event.

    The Roswell episode has become a mythos.

    And therefore it evokes "religious-like" feelings.

    Even David Rudiak, I think, will succumb to actual evidence that is the obverse of what he has come to believe and defend.

    Rudiak is not a dumb person by any means, and he has integrity, regardless of what some think.

    I trust he and others will do what is right should the Team uncover anything that denies their biases over the years.

    And the skeptics will do the same.

    After all, CDA, Lance Moody, Gilles Fernadez et al. are decent fellows to the core, as are Rutkowski, Randle, Rudiak, and especially Bragalia.

    I accept them as honorable men, even when they behave unacademically.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, December 29, 2011  

  • Hi Rich,

    "Unfortunately, Tony, having been chastised for his early pronouncements, is gun shy and won't disclose what he's found until he has crossed every "t" and dotted every "i.""

    While I do think Tony has a super ability to find interesting evidence, his ability to dot "t's" and so forth is virtually non-existent.

    In his recent Roswell lie detector piece, he used essentially an Internet Magic 8 ball to evaluate the testimony of Jesse Marcel. This was by far the worst thing I have yet seen Tony present and certainly the silliest.

    In the piece, Tony strongly implies that he had the assistance of the software developers. He didn't.

    It was child's play to show that the software was completely unreliable. Using the same technique Tony used (which, let's face it, was just pasting text into a field and allowing an algorithm to do everything else) we have "confirmed" (to use Tony's breathlessly unsupported rhetoric) that several known Roswell frauds were also actually telling the truth according to Tony's criteria.

    That most non-skeptics let this kind of thing just pass by without comment (or even praising the silly thing) is another shameful example of the absolute intellectual bankruptcy of the whole field.

    Lance

    By Blogger Lance, at Thursday, December 29, 2011  

  • Lance,

    You have to admit that Tony, at least, tries different tacks.

    He isn't absorbed by Mogul (ahem) or the other nonsense that fills Kevin's comment boxes every time Roswell is mentioned.

    While I agree that Tony has a tendency to hype his postings, with capital lettered titles and sensational asides -- he does have a little ego problem -- I like his chutzpah and different approach to his "research."

    His problem lies in his inability to disclose all that he has found; that inability stemming from his caution about giving away information that others would purloin to feather their own ufological credentials.

    Since I'm an advocate of handwriting analysis and did much college work and writings about that castigated endeavor, far be it for me to chastise Tony's use of the "lie detection" method you eschew.

    After all, we're dealing with UFOs here, not cancer research or a solution for hunger or poverty in third-world countries (or even the U.S.).

    It's all fun and games, when it comes right down to it.

    Taking UFOs and ufology seriously is a kind of insanity, is it not?

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, December 29, 2011  

  • "It's all fun and games, when it comes right down to it.

    Taking UFOs and ufology seriously is a kind of insanity, is it not?"


    Point taken :)

    Lance

    By Blogger Lance, at Thursday, December 29, 2011  

  • I assume the 'dream team' are out to take ufology seriously, i.e. they will not pull their punches on Roswell.

    We can, I am positive, take it for granted that Stan Friedman has been excluded for good reason - the most likely is that he still strongly believes there were TWO crashes that day, i.e. the San Augustin one plus the Roswell one (plus the other sites if you want). I don't believe that any of the other team members accept the second crash. One is quite enough for them!

    Despite this, I DO believe there will be friction, and probably sooner rather than later, with the inevitable split-up.

    But we shall have to wait and see. Kevin is very brave, after all this time, to get a team together at all. I will make absolutely no predictions as to who will be the first to drop out and when.

    Will you, Rich?

    By Blogger cda, at Thursday, December 29, 2011  

  • Christopher:

    I think the gang that now makes up the Dream Team will stick it out.

    I know that there are intense back-and-forths between them now and ongoing, with little or no animosity.

    They are bonded by the fact that each of them is getting older and their UFO cachet has slipped away or is slipping away.

    They each want to leave a legacy, even if that legacy is within the goofy human subset known as ufology.

    I wish them the best, so that they have something worthwhile to add to their obits and/or biographies.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, December 29, 2011  

  • A thought:
    Will anyone be brave enough to start an Aztec 'dream team'?

    By Blogger cda, at Thursday, December 29, 2011  

  • CDA...

    Aztec already has a "dream team" unnamed as such however: Scott Ramsey, Frank Warren, and some unknowns (to me).

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, December 29, 2011  

  • The idea of other Dream Teams for other cases is not a bad one (even though I suspect more than a hint of sarcasm in CDA's brief words!).

    A few particularly intriguing ones spring to mind - the Cash-Landrum event of 1980; the Bosco Nedelcovic/Villas Boas affair; and the Kingman 1953 case.

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Thursday, December 29, 2011  

  • Nick:

    As a USA resident now, you may not know, but a guy called Villas Boas is the current manager of Chelsea. (4th in Premier League). Dream team?

    By Blogger cda, at Thursday, December 29, 2011  

  • CDA:
    LOL, yeah I did know that. I have a couple of subscription channels here that play nothing but the football all the time. Actually I will be watching Wolverhampton Wanderers tonight, who I used to go and see back in the 80s.

    I probably watch 2 hours of football every night from around 10 to midnight.

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Thursday, December 29, 2011  

  • As a new member of the "Dream Team," I find the comments interesting. As for me being "tainted" because I agreed to join the group, I guess that just comes with the territory. I thought that having a skeptic join a reopened investigation would be a good thing. My position within the team, as I understand it, is to assess whatever evidence will be produced - as a kind of "devil's advocate." To me, that's what an investigation into any UFO case (not just Roswell) needs.

    By Blogger rutkows, at Wednesday, January 04, 2012  

  • Chris:

    You are the exception to the rule, as far as comments go here.

    No taint in your persona.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, January 04, 2012  

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