UFO Conjecture(s)

Thursday, March 08, 2012

The Roswell Denouement?

So Kevin Randle’s so-called Dream Team “proves” that an extraterrestrial craft crashed near Roswell in 1947 and the United States Army (and government) covered-up the event.

Then what?

Where does the Dream Team and ET ufologists go after the exposé?

Yes, many ufgologists, such as Randle, Rudiak, et al. will crow, “We told you so!” --but then what?

What information does humanity get from a military confession?

Yes, other civilizations, off-Earth, exist.

But do we now have access to that civilization and its societal accoutrements?

After sixty-five years, has the public or military been the recipient of anything useful from the alleged crash remnants or immaterial elements such as information culled from the alleged living entity or entities recovered by the military and squirreled away at a secret facility?

Proving the Roswell ET flying disk crash is an accomplishment, but one without practical benefits for the public at large.

The military admittance takes us nowhere.

Dream Teamers will push for access to what the military hid for sixty-five years and what they determined by research upon the supposed artifacts and bodies, forcing an exhibition of what was recovered and/or discovered.

Then what?

Battelle scientists have already examined the “debris” from Roswell, Anthony Bragalia tells us, and has circumstantial evidence that this is so.

Others have determined that the military has been covert about what was found near Roswell; Rudiak, Randle, and others have circumstantial evidence this is so.


What is opened, for some, is a dialogue about how such a confession by the Air Force, Navy, or military stresses Earth’s political structures, economics, religious organizations, and many other human constructs, philosophies, and even human existence itself.

But such a dialogue is ongoing in some quarters already and has been for some time.

My point is that a “proven” extraterrestrial crash, near Roswell, in 1947, doesn’t take us anywhere but into realms of discourse that have already been happening from time immemorial.

The Air Force coming clean about Roswell doesn’t help us with life. It clears up a mystery; life goes on, and the admittance affects nothing, but sustenances a “told you so” aftermath by the Roswell believers.

The military “confession” is a shoe horn to further foolish ruminations by those who have no existential underpinnings, and use the extraterrestrial scenario to appease their need for something beyond their meager lives and philosophies.



  • You just don't understand.

    We have reaped huge benefits from the Roswell crash - the discovery of transistors was a direct result of the material recovered from the crash, and the memory metal nitinol also. Stan Friedman and Tony Bragalia have proved these beyond dispute.

    A military admission would create a tremendous surge in public acceptance of future military pronouncements on other subjects, a boost for the US economy, a big rise in USAF recruitment (needed more than ever now with the looming war with Iran), and naturally a huge rise in space research/exploration budgets and the public interest in space science.

    It would be the best news since sliced bread. For all we know, the ETs slice bread quite differently from us anyway.

    By Blogger cda, at Thursday, March 08, 2012  

  • Hahahahahaha...

    CDA you crack me up.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, March 08, 2012  

  • Well you are right Rich...

    When it is proven to everyone's satisfaction that we have indeed had crashed visitors from other worlds (and that day is coming)- what does it mean to us as individuals and as humanity? Without Open Contact- how does it impact us?

    For me, it is assurance that We are Not Alone and that we never have been. When I it is my time to leave this planet, I will have knowledge that there are others on other planets. They have mastered the dimensions. They speak to the possibility of eternity and of 'survival' on some level in some form.


    By Blogger Anthony Bragalia, at Thursday, March 08, 2012  

  • Yes, I know your position, Anthony, and it's a "nice' personal position.

    But I'm looking at the broader picture for humanity, now, not then.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, March 08, 2012  

  • "Mastered the dimensions".

    That's a new one. Do our hypothetical visitors need to have "mastered" dimensions beyond those we already know, i.e. 3 of space and one of time?

    How many dimensions are you posturing about, Tony? Hyperplanes, hyperspheres or something else entirely?

    By Blogger cda, at Thursday, March 08, 2012  

  • Like the search for the Higgs-Boson (which is wasting, oops I mean costing trillions all tolled), there is no useful application for this knowledge. Even if something ET crashed at Roswell, really, so what? It's even more irrelevant if that Roswell object was just a random one-of. Woohoo. Aliens exist and one of their lost spacecraft had engine trouble and sputtered out over New Mexico almost 70 years ago. Is that gonna make the price of gas go down?

    All that "borrowed or stolen" alien technology bull is just that. It could only be believed seriously by misanthropes who have litle or no respect for their fellow humans. It is condescending in the extreme to all the researchers and scientists who worked their butts off for years to develop these technologies.

    Roswell as an event persists because people can keep making money off of it. If the next three or four Roswell books didn't sell a single copy or if Roswell advocates couldn't get any more paid or expense-paid gigs, it would completely disappear from popular culture and would remain only in the minds of a handful of fanatics.

    By Blogger purrlgurrl, at Thursday, March 08, 2012  

  • CDA-

    If they have visited us- they are by nature at once inter-dimensional and extraterrestrial.

    "ET" means both extraterrestrial and extratemporal (beyond time.)

    In order that they traverse the cosmos to get here, they must change state and they must manipulate space-time.

    Surely you do not believe that they are constructed like an Apollo pop can using propellant?

    They then return to their original material state when the arrive in our frequency of existence, our 'dimension.'


    By Blogger Anthony Bragalia, at Thursday, March 08, 2012  

  • Purrl-

    I think you will be surprised how much that you and I agree.

    I do believe that Roswell was a "one-off."

    I do believe that the pieces sit somewhere hidden over the decades like so many dusty museum pieces, but not even publicly displayed.

    And -save for the concept of shape recovery, derived from the materials of construction- I do not believe that much usable technology has been derived from the crash. I do not believe in anything like "Corso" revisionism.

    Where you are wrong is this: No one is making any real money off of Roswell. That is insulting. I have never received a dime from anyone ever. I give freely to the public everything I discover. If anything- this Roswell research has cost Kevin, Don, Tom, myself and others more money and time than you can ever imagine!


    By Blogger Anthony Bragalia, at Thursday, March 08, 2012  

  • Purrl gurrl:

    The Higgs boson has not cost "trillions", although I expect the Hadron collider has cost billions, but is also used for other things like 'disproving' Einstein (!)

    Actually if these neutrinos really can travel faster than light, we can thank the Roswell crash for putting us on the path to all these physics discoveries. It is the 'reverse engineering' that is the important concept. Alas, too much for mere mortals like myself, and maybe yourself, to comprehend. The inter-dimensionality of our visitors also plays an important part.

    And the 'Dream Team'? Some of them are already in N-dimensional space, aren't they?

    By Blogger cda, at Thursday, March 08, 2012  

  • "The Air Force coming clean about Roswell...clears up a mystery; life goes on, and the admittance affects nothing..."

    I'm not sure about this at all. Sixty years of official denial and lying (even to Congress) and the threatening and intimidation of witnesses. The most significant government hoax and deception of all time...and you assert that the admittance affects nothing! Trust and good information are the very foundations of democracy and democratic institutions. Those would be severely shaken (Watergate, a minor set of fibs, had important institutional ramifications) by any such UFO reality admittance...whatever the rationale.

    By Blogger Dominick, at Thursday, March 08, 2012  

  • Dominick...

    We -- the public, media, et al. -- would not be surprised that the military or government lied and covered-up anything to do with Roswell.

    Roswell has, since its resurrection, been seen as a fount of covered-up information.

    And the common trope since Watergate -- national security --"requires" cover-ups.

    Come on...would you be shaken by a cover-up disclosure?

    Would my dear old mother?

    I think not.

    Nothing is affected by a Roswell expose....nothing.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, March 08, 2012  

  • I think that you are being naive about "disclosure changes nothing." Assuming that there is a cover-up, certainly one of the reasons (perhaps the only important one) is the belief that disclosure would, in fact, change everything. Else, why not "disclose" 45 years ago...or yesterday? Whoever controls the cover-up must fear that disclosure would result in a dramatic shift in political and religious power..with totally unpredictable outcomes. Could they be that wrong? The implication to be drawn here, by the way, is that the disclosure would contain far more complex and shocking information than we can even reasonably speculate about. The average man in the street unaffected? Depends on the substance of the disclosure and the institutional responses that occur as a consequence of that substance. As an example, the Christianity "disclosures" (life after death, etc.)--whether true of false--had extreme institutional ramifications that have continued for thousands of years and still influence public policy today. The societal ramifications of Intelligent Extraterristrial Life in both the short and long run would be far more dramatic in my view. (And that's why there will be no "voluntary" disclosure).

    By Blogger Dominick, at Thursday, March 08, 2012  

  • Dominick:

    People, the masses, the rabble, dumb as they may be, are a little more sophisticated than they were in 1947, or even the 1980s.

    We humans, have grown up and caught on.

    Nothing shocks us any more.

    If you think a Roswell ET atmittance would shock or upset society's applecart, you are living in the past I'm afraid.

    But I'll give you this: the UFO ET believers will hoop and holler, that's for sure.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, March 08, 2012  

  • "And -save for the concept of shape recovery, derived from the materials of construction- I do not believe that much usable technology has been derived from the crash. I do not believe in anything like "Corso" revisionism."

    There is technology and there is concept. You begin to see a lot of changes in aircraft design in the post WWII era, the swept wing in particular really takes hold in high-end design. Coincidence? Maybe not entirely. Just knowing that something will work can move things forward even if you can't exactly duplicate the advancement. Avionics and propulsion? Not right away. Design? Yes absolutely. Structural metal used for the frame and skin? If the base alloy is available on your planet and has the highest strength to weight ratio of any metal there, you're going to look into it.

    By Blogger Frank Stalter, at Thursday, March 08, 2012  

  • I meant to write delta wing and not swept wing. :O(

    By Blogger Frank Stalter, at Thursday, March 08, 2012  

  • Tony B. - you may not have made a dime from Roswell, but others have. I won't list their names here because we all know who they are since some are high profile. It may not have been their day jobs, but they picked up some walking around money. Yes, some are in it as a pristine avocation, but some are looking to pick up some extra cash or at least finance some UFO junkets.

    It's funny how anytime I suggest a crass motive for some UFO research, people I wasn't even thinking about take it personally. Let me assure you were the farthest from my mind.

    By Blogger purrlgurrl, at Friday, March 09, 2012  

  • Thanks Purrl.

    I do not do this for cash or 'fame.' My image appears nowhere on the Net, I do not speak at conferences, etc. (though I have been asked) or done SyFy or History Channel (though I have been asked) and my voice has never been heard publicly. My UFO research is an avocation that has actually detracted from my management consulting vocation.

    That said, as you point out, there are those who try to make cash off of such things as a primary motive.

    Now, I do not disparage folks who need to recoup expenses and take some fees, but those who just shovel out sh_t for money are all to numerous.

    I'll name a few: Robert Collins, Linda Moulton Howe, Robert O. Dean, Steven Greer, Richard Hoagland, Jamie Maussen and Michale Salla. For starters.


    By Blogger Anthony Bragalia, at Friday, March 09, 2012  

  • Frank-

    You are correct to make the distinction between "concept" and actualized "technology."

    There are likely many "concepts" that have been derived from the crash elements and components. But whether these are yet fully developed and "workable" concepts -given today's limitations in considering things from eons in our future- in the way Corso suggested/lied is doubtful.


    By Blogger Anthony Bragalia, at Friday, March 09, 2012  

  • Of course if an ET spacecraft crashed at Roswell, it would be earth-shattering in its implications - scientific, philosophical and theological! Come on Rich! But there wasn't an ET crash at Roswell, so *shrug*.

    I am amused at Bragalia constantly knocking the old guys in ufology as pale imitations of what they once were, as has-beens and even out to lunch, and yet his 'true believer' status on Roswell is a kind of self-parody of the unfunny joke that is US ufology. His latest post (on the Roswell 'kids' Dee and Vernon) was um interesting. Appreciate the info on those two (sincerely), but your take on it is ridiculous Anthony. Apparently dying (Dee Proctor) at 66 is young, btw. If an American dies at the tragic young age of.. 66! and obese to boot, it can be traced back to the haunted childhood memory of dismembered aliens, well maybe.

    As far as Vern's tragic life is concerned, hmm let's see - a young troubled and depressed drifter commits suicide before thirty. If it weren't for the crash landed aliens, Vernon would have lived a productive and long life, without any emotional problems. Well just maybe!

    I knew two people fairly well who fitted that profile, and committed suicide before thirty (I'm not counting depressed people I have known who attempted suicide but failed). The one guy was 19. Maybe the aliens that crash landed in their parents' backyards catalyzed the whole thing! And no I am not making fun of the tragedy of suicide and depression, I am making a point about Bragalia's leaps of speculative 'logic'.

    Purr you misunderstand the appeal of Roswell, it is psychological, sociological and religious. We need new gods, we no longer believe in the old ones. We call this the Age of Unbelief for a reason, but men and women ache for gods and always will (and I don't pour scorn on that at all. I more than understand that). Aliens in our day and age fill that gap. One can only appreciate the mythology of Roswell in the context of the space age, the cultural background of science fiction, human psychology and the religious impulse. In hindsight we should have seen this coming.. There is a literature on this re the sociology and mythology of Roswell, so I'm not going to add to it here.

    It's both amusing and depressing to read the ufology literature from thirty years ago and how the more serious researchers and writers then were complaining about how lame and silly the whole ufology scene was (ruled excessively by the ET hypothesis). Compared to where we are now, ufology circa 1980 was a golden age of reason, thoughtfulness and scholarship.

    btw Purr I left a comment over at the 'Magonia pelican book review' blog after yours, re the Clive Prince review of the latest Hancock and Bauval effort.

    cda you are right to stop commenting at Bragalia's blog. Never mind the reason you gave. I mean it's always kinda fun to argue with true Roswell believers, but after a while the fun dissipates and it's just tiresome. I mean unless you are real curious about the dynamics of cognitive dissonance in the Roswell believers camp.

    By Blogger Lawrence, at Saturday, March 10, 2012  

  • Come on, Lawrence...

    A crashed alien spacecraft in Roswell 65 years ago and finally acknowleged would be earth-shattering?

    We've been through a lot since, and no earth-shattering...the JFK assassination, 9/11, Justin Bieber.

    No one cares. A UFO crash, as PG reminds us, doesn't lower gas prices, or put food on the table, or help us lose weight.

    A crash doesn't provide and hasn't provided a practical solution to anything in life.

    It's interesting for some, but for the rabble, the great unwashed, nada....


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Saturday, March 10, 2012  

  • Roswell?
    Give over, folks. It is Aztec we should be focussing on now.
    Get to it!

    By Blogger cda, at Saturday, March 10, 2012  

  • Lawrence-

    Your eight long paragraphs left here belies your statement that you find what I say "tiresome"!

    That neither of the very first witnesses on the scene ever said anything publicly about the crash is telling. You do not address this. And you do not address what Kevin learned from Dee directly. And you ignore what Loretta his said about Dee taking her to a second location and the Dee "a certain little brat" had hid material.

    And by "declaration" you state that what crashed was not extraterrestrial, yet you fail to say what it was that did and how you know that.

    Spend decades researching this event as I have and then say something constructive.


    By Blogger Anthony Bragalia, at Saturday, March 10, 2012  

  • Anthony your 100% predictable response is what I mean by tiresome. You moan that I write eight long paragraphs, but if I wrote 500, your mind would not budge an inch re Roswell, so what would be the point? If I wrote just 2 paragraphs would I have changed your mind at all re Roswell? No of course not, so your point is what exactly? No don't answer it Anthony, that's because you can't answer it coherently at all.

    What do I think crashed? Are you serious in asking me that question? Mogul balloons like DUH. What do you think I'm going to say, Santa and his new team of reindeer he was breaking in on a test run? Give credence to Redfern's latest or Annie Jacobson's harebrained nuttery?

    You've spent decades studying a myth that has no literal reality, I know that Bragalia. And there are people who have spent decades chasing after Nessie and Bigfoot. So? Nothing I write here is going to change your mind, a whole set of encyclopedias effectively debunking Roswell wouldn't change your mind. When the 'dream team' turns up nothing, you will still go on believing no matter what. That's because you are a true believer and that is that. You have your 'memory metal' - it's somewhere, hidden away or lost! Uh no not really. I'm not going to knock my head against a brick wall for crying out loud, go on believing Anthony! You can only do so.

    Rich, this is academic because of course no alien craft crashed at Roswell. If we discovered an ET crashed spaceship, wherever, it could be in the Amazon or Africa or Antarctica and it could be from a thousand years ago or ten million or a hundred million years ago; it would be a very big deal.

    BECAUSE IT WOULD MEAN ET EXISTS, HAS AN ADVANCED CIVILIZATION AND HAS REACHED EARTH! That is a big deal, just ask most all professional philosophers, theologians and scientists, especially astronomers and biologists. No such a discovery wouldn't help pay the rent, wow I guess then the definitive evidence for an advanced ET civilization is no biggie because you know it's not going to get us out of the recession or some-such. And maybe that's how we should judge scientific breakthroughs & discoveries across the board and great works of art, music and literature - how does it help you out personally with your bank account and your health and sex life, and if it doesn't well just discard it as whatever. Lame. Oh wait you are being facetious right Rich? Is that your out?

    There is not a single ufologist and I am talking the serious ones here, few and far between as they may be, whatever their personal ideas on this front - from Vallee to the Magonia crew in the UK to Moseley and Rutkowksi and others from around the world - who wouldn't think it a big deal. Just ask them. Even the archskeptic Randibot types would consider it a big deal. Same goes for the general public as a whole.

    Comparing 9-11 to a discovery of an alien ship?! It's chalk and cheese or chalk and kryptonite. Oh wait you were being facetious? Right?

    By Blogger Lawrence, at Sunday, March 11, 2012  

  • No, Lawrence, I'm not being facetious.

    The Roswell incident is bent history.

    No one cares, generally.

    Oh sure, I agree that the UFO crowd would go loopy, but they're loopy already, hoping on a wing and a prayer that their dedication to UFOs will pay off, and a Roswell disclosure would brighten their pathetic lives.

    But the great, beer-drinking unwashed? They couldn't care less.

    Lawrence, you have really got to mix with the hoi polloi, who know nothing about art, music, literature, or anything else from the cultural milieu.

    You think they give a good goddam about Roswell or extraterrestrial civilizations.

    They don't.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, March 11, 2012  

  • AJB:

    "That neither of the very first witnesses on the scene ever said anything publicly about the crash is telling".

    How right you are! The reason neither of them said anything publicly about it is that there was NOTHING to say about it. It was an entirely trivial event and involved nothing extraterrestrial.

    But you cannot seem to accept this. You continue to insist Dee Proctor was at the event when the press reports show she was not. You insist that their deaths when 'young' (one of them was 66!) were connected in some mysterious way with the events of '47 and not to other, more obvious but earthly, causes. You accept the decades old fading memories of a 90-year old person who was not there at all but who purports to know about the 'dark secrets'.

    In fact, as Lawrence says, you are an incorrigible ETH fanatic when it comes to Roswell.

    Sometime, please let us have your views on Aztec. Notice, by the way, that the Aztec craft landed intact, not in bits and pieces, and witnesses (so we are led to believe) peered inside it. Once again those wicked guys in the USAF spirited it all away. I hope they did not confuse the stuff and stash it away with the Roswell debris. It is essential for science, and for the future of our civilisation, that the two are kept entirely separate!

    One other thing: are you positive the memory metal came from the Roswell crash or could it have come from the Aztec one?

    By Blogger cda, at Sunday, March 11, 2012  

  • Am I to understand, Rich, that you really believe that we should judge whether something is "earth shattering" by the responses of the "great, beer-drinking unwashed..."? Let's just take one fairly recent example: The discovery of atomic energy and the making of an atomic bomb. Now, does that qualify as "earth shattering" (and if not, what, pray tell, would?)? Yet I'm sure that the great, beer-drinking unwashed never gave that discovery much, if any, consideration. (Can you see your golf buddies on the 19th hole wondering about the implications of some atom spliting? No? Well then, that's your answer.) The point is that we NEVER judge turning points in history (or great institutional changes) by what the great unwashed think; they are far too busy playing golf, having sex and making a living for themselves and their family. The discovery of ET (and the ET cover-up), ignored by the great unwashed or not, would be a major game change far exceeding almost anything "discovered" in history.

    By Blogger Dominick, at Sunday, March 11, 2012  

  • Dominick...

    Yes, the implications for the intelligentsia and intellectually astute would be profound, but things will go on as usual for the bulk of humanity: the Syrian people will continue being slaughtered, Iran will bomb Israel, Kony will live on to use children and mutilate his people, and American Idol will continue to be watched by the masses.

    The profundities of the past went unheeded as the vast horde of humanity went on its evolutionary way....and I use "evolutionary" in a derogatory sense here.

    You will be wowed, and some others here, if Roswell turns out to be an interplanetary visit that went wrong.

    And I'll sit up and take notice too, but it won't adjust my life-style in any significant way.

    I'm Neanderthalian apparently...


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, March 11, 2012  

  • CDA-

    You have proven conclusively to all just now that you have no grasp at all of the subject of Roswell.

    You call "Dee" a "she" - a woman!!!

    Dee was a man!

    So much for your "knowledge" and for your opinions...


    By Blogger Anthony Bragalia, at Sunday, March 11, 2012  

  • Actually, Rich, several of histories discoveries did, indeed, portent great changes in the way ordinary people go about their daily activity; not just the "intellectuals" were concerned of affected. Now the great unwashed may not have been aware of how these changes occured, or why, but they were nonetheless profoundly changed by them. Just 3 examples: the rise of capitalist institutions; electricity and the light bulb; the motor car. These were absolutely massive game changers for the great unwashed....even though they did not (or have not) ever given any serious thought to these matters. My guess is that ET "information" vastly exceeds the information associated with, say, the internal combustion engine, and that the societal effects would be far, far greater.

    By Blogger Dominick, at Sunday, March 11, 2012  

  • Dominick, buddy...

    You make my point.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, March 11, 2012  

  • AJB:

    Yes, I too am getting careless as I age. Instead of erasing the 's', I changed the sex of one of your non-witnesses. So you cannot really accept anything I say. I'll try to be more careful in future, but as the years go by it is going to get difficult.

    Probably time for me to bow out on this; at least until your next non-witness comes along.

    By Blogger cda, at Sunday, March 11, 2012  

  • Mr. Author,

    You are 100% correct. Even if they do, at this point it would be old news to most. If you watch enough History Channel you'll see that there are scientists as well as religious leaders giving interviews essentially agreeing on the central point... Finding ET life would not cause any durastic changes in our everyday life. That is, of course, until some sort of giant mass greeting from "them".


    By Blogger D Windsor, at Thursday, March 15, 2012  

  • DW...

    Thank you for the observation.

    We, you and I, are in agreement.

    RR (The "author")

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, March 15, 2012  

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