The UFO Iconoclast(s)

Thursday, August 23, 2012

Another egg-shaped UFO incident (or a medical condition?)

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Spanish researcher Jose Caravaca provides (at his blog with us) a 1976 incident that is either a bona fide UFO sighting or is, like the Taylor incident in Scotland in 1979, the result of an epileptic event or a stroke.

Click HERE for Senor Caravaca's account of the encounter.

8 Comments:

  • I tend to rule out an aura preceding a seizure, the description doesn't quite fit.

    What's missing from the story is what sort of curative treatment did he received from the locals? Herbal remedies have been know to induce hallucinatory episodes.

    Combine the above with the regional cultural beliefs then something might be explained to some satisfaction.

    I do like Jose's discoveries.

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Thursday, August 23, 2012  

  • Tim:

    Jose sent me some images to flesh out, once again, the 1979 Taylor/Scotland account, which we may revisit.

    The beam of light for the Russian doctor event and his partial paralysis allowed me to invoke a neurological suggestion.

    What came to mind, as I just told Jose, was Jean s'Arc's similar experiences, as well as other saints.

    The visions are induced by a neurological malfunction of some kind.

    Perhaps Oliver Sacks October 2012 book, Hallucinations (mentioned by Bruce Duensing to us the other day) will provide some insights.

    There are epileptic-like tics that simulate what Jose's doctor experienced, as you know from the literature on epilepsy.

    That is more viable, for me, than a UFO visitation -- in this instance.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, August 23, 2012  

  • Assuming that this is a type of seizure, it would still be somewhat unusual, but there is an aura (vivid visual, lack of auditory function) the blinding light beam then post ictal state.

    Variation of a complex partial seizure or petite mal?

    Reminds me of Paul's vision on the road to Damascus moment since you mentioned Joan of Arc and the saints.

    The restoration of Dr. V's state of health is interesting.

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Thursday, August 23, 2012  

  • Paul's "hallucination" is exactly an example that slipped my mind, Tim.

    The "miracle visions" (and subsequent miracle cures of and by saints) may fall into a category of mental events that pertain to some UFO sightings.

    Jose's doctor has some peripheral aspects that I find interesting and conducive to a neurological or psychological explanation: the over-indulging mother, a search for mystical curatives. the silence during the event, et cetera.

    The skimpy evidence doesn't help with a real explanation but what we have is suggestive.

    By the way, I'm not offering epilepsy as an explanation but a quasi-epileptic event or pseudo epilepsy.

    (I'll have to find the exact medical symptomatics and/or etiology.)

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, August 23, 2012  

  • "or is, like the Taylor incident in Scotland in 1979, the result of an epileptic event or a stroke."

    Poppycock. It's just as much a stretch to accept the epileptic event or a stroke notion as explanation as it is to accept Taylor's described event at face value. When all the facts of the Taylor case are on the table, the proposed stroke explanation just does not add up. It is completely true that hallucinations do in fact occur without known provocation in the sane. However, they do not happen with any specific orientation. This is to state that such sane hallucination episodes are incredibly rare to begin with, and just as broadly diverse in content as they are potentially rare. When you lump as many humanoid, ufo, and contact cases together and describe them as the result of an extremely rare, possibly hypothetical status of mind, it becomes practically ridiculous to feel confident concerning this explanation. I am aware of no type of epileptic seizure that results in complex, fleeting, lucid, ictal hallucinations that consist of no other physical or mental irregularity or dysfunction. I am also unaware of epilepsy coming and going within patients that had zero former history of diagnosed epilepsy, or an onset diagnosed development thereof.

    The entirety of this proposed stroke and seizure explanation for ufo (and related) events is extremely weak. All of the sane hallucinatory "evidence" is built of "accepted" empirical popular consensus and not of proved fact. As long as this is the case I will accept credible witness testimony as it is described rather than the summing of pseudo explanations that would seem to bolster neurologically induced confabulations in the witnesses mind of one sort or another. I am not against alternate explanations, especially those humanly induced. Nor am I an extraterrestrial elitist screaming that we ARE being visited, as some are. I just find this premise an extremely awkward exercise in the realm of probability.

    By Blogger Jeff Davis, at Friday, August 24, 2012  

  • Jeff...

    If you were familiar with the literature, you'd be less inclined to dismiss a unique neurological event.

    I, and a neighbor of mine, an oral surgeon, both had, not that long ago, a transient global amnesia bout {TGA].

    It's a one-time event and is not explainable by current medical diagnoses.

    That Taylor or Jose's doctor may have had a unique neurological event can't be ruled out, because you find it unlisted in your readings.

    It's a possibility, that's all.

    You claim not to be "an extraterrestrial elitist screaming that we ARE being visited" but you're coming close.

    The suggestions here, by me and others, are mere conjectures open to discussion, backed up by concrete antitheses -- not just pounding of one's chest and a lot of blather.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, August 24, 2012  

  • My opinion is that one can neither easily conclude, nor summarily dismiss, the legitimacy of face value descriptions from credible witnesses. Meaning that IMO, something or someone external to the witness does seem to interact, or at very least directly influence, the initial descriptive party. That's all I am stating here via basic deductive reasoning.

    I am pointing out that via a carefully reasoned and unemotional consideration, minus any chest beating whatsoever, this conjectured antithesis seems as far a reach as is extraterrestrial visitation, or any other valid consideration with respect for UFO considerations in general. That's all.

    My point is that we do not have a myriad of diverse experiential data to draw from. One that represents a wide vista of neurological dysfunction induced visual hallucination experiences. If we did, this would be a likely candidate as a hypothetical explanation regarding these encounter specific experiences. In other words there should be a vast pool of diverse hallucinated subject matter from which we would find the hallucinated encounter experiences scattered within. Where is this contextually broad body of experiential data apart from the encounter experiences we are focusing on?

    A GREAT example would be your TGA experience. This form of amnesia can strike with there being little recognition of provocation or responsible stimulus, correct? But the thing is, you could be doing anything, with respect to relevant context of the recent memories lost when it happens. You might be driving a car, you might be knitting, you might be having intercourse, just about any context is possible. Yet in terms of measurable neurological dysfunction, it's recognized as clearly the same memory loss pattern in a majority of cases. Thus it's specific amnesia classification. But the thing is, no amnesia of any type is selective in content with respect to the precise contextual nature of memories lost. Just the areas of the brain from where the memories are stored.

    My point is that encounter scenarios are very diverse in detailed make up, but very specific with respect to context. How can any neurological dysfunction select a specific abstract context? The context of the implied hypothetical encounter hallucinations should be as varied and diverse as the memories of those, like yourself, who have suffered one form of amnesia or another.

    By Blogger Jeff Davis, at Friday, August 24, 2012  

  • Jeff...

    What we might consider is what Jose Caravca suggests, and that is the idea of former associations stimulated by something -- he thinks it's an outside agent of some kind (as yet to be defined exactly) -- which creates the scenarios we've presented (his encounters and some I've inserted).

    The associations (see his blog for a raft of those) come to the fore, to the senses of UFO witnesses, I think, by a neurological malfunction.

    I believe Bruce Duensing agrees with this. (He posits an electromagnetic stimulus, whereas I think it's a neural break-down.)

    Some UFO encounters, those highlighted here recently, are not actual encounters but, rather, an "hallucination" sparked by a mental glitch and exacerbated by memories of things from one's past that resonate during the glitch.

    Why those particular memories come forward has not been clarified, by anyone.

    What troubles me about your view is the idea that there could not be any unique neural malfunction, still unknown or understood, which might account for such encounters as noted.

    The literature about such unique neural malfunctions continues to grow and Oliver Sacks is one neurologist who is expanding the list of strange mental quirks that have not been classified up to now.

    A beam of light -- not an aura -- is often associated with stroke-like episodes -- stroke-like!

    Epileptic episodes have elements that mimic some UFO experiences.

    Not epilepsy, per se, but elements that have been minimized in cases of epilepsy, as the over all epileptic fit -- the gestalt of epilepsy -- has taken precedence.

    Caravaca has tied such encounters as those by Taylor, his Russian doctor, and many others together by the "symbolism" within their witness accounts.

    You seem to ignore the connections he finds and I support, exampled by your statement,"encounter scenarios are very diverse in detailed make up."

    They aren't diverse at all.

    I would hope you'd get your hands on the neurological literature or any of Oliver Sacks books to enlighten yourself about what may be possible or even probable when it comes to using neurological malfunctions as an explanation for some -- some! -- UFO events.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, August 24, 2012  

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