UFO Conjecture(s)

Monday, June 17, 2013

UFOs:In the Navy....

Copyright 2013, InterAmerica, Inc.


UFO buffs an “researchers” have always and still continue to place the United States Air Force into the UFO mix, as an integral part of the phenomenon’s mystery, which UFOers see as exacerbated by cover-up(s) and machinations of various kinds to flummox seekers of a UFO explanation.

But I have maintained for a very long time now that it’s the United States Navy which is the keeper of the UFO keys.


The Navy’s Skyhook Projects caused many UFO sightings, especially the Mantell episode, but what was and is Skyhook exactly? Balloons gathering data with their tethered instrument capsules and boxes?

Or was Skyhook and its related code-named operations more than that?

B. D. Gildenberg, in an article for the Skeptical Enquirer, The Cold War’s Classified Skyhook Program: A Participant’s Revelations, Volume 28.3, May / June 2004 presented an overview of the Navy’s balloon projects (and those also of the Air Force, including those that were part of the Roswell incident).

I have outlined the Moby Dick Project, here and at the RRRGroup blog, early on.

Gildenberg’s article notes the Moby Dick Project and all the other attendant Projects in play during the late 40s, into the 50s, and right up to today:

Gopher, Grayback, Moby Dick Hi, Gentrix, Grandson, and Flying Cloud WS-124A, all Top Secret.

He cites “an excellent book by historian Curtis Peebles (Peebles 1991)” on the matter of balloons and Soviet penetration by them.

But the clue to what the Navy (and concomitantly the U.S. Air Force) were really doing with the Skyhook balloons remains to be investigated by UFO researchers.

A thorough research of balloon flights, near Roswell in 1947, as I have already placed online here and elsewhere, help to define the confusion within the Roswell incident; that is the Mac Brazel Foster Ranch debris collection, which has nothing to do with what happened at Roswell but is a diversion, caused by inept UFO researches and the Air Force to keep citizens from what really happened east of the Foster Ranch and north of Roswell in 1947.

That aside, the secret balloon projects may explain Socorro – may – as Skyhook explains the Mantell episode, which has been amply clarified by Kevin Randle.

So my UFO gumshoe friends, here are some names of balloon projects that allow you to male connections to noted UFO sightings.

But more importantly, the search for Navy documents and activities might tell you what UFOs really are, and that the Navy has a major clue.

Their balloons have told them.



  • that is the Mac Brazel Foster Ranch debris collection, which has nothing to do with what happened at Roswell but is a diversion

    No offense and frankly Rich, but this is especially/only for now, a new version (narrative processing) to maintain by a speculative ad hoc hypothesis that a spaceship crashed in 1947, at all costs (almost desperately?).

    Or if you prefer : It is always more reasonable to apply Occam's razor than to offer speculative ad hoc hypotheses just to maintain the possibility of something supernatural or paranormal. http://skepdic.com/adhoc.html

    Of course, you are free to believe in this new version, in order to reduce the dissonant elements regarding Roswell, presented by skeptics, as by former believers in the Roswell myth (Pflock, Jeffrey, i.e.) that rallied them to a more prosaic explanation.

    As I doubt you will convince current believers in the myth (i.e. the so called DreamTeam) about you new version. Or the National Academy of Sciences!

    More, but already stated, you illustrate by this that "Mythmakers" of the UFO phenomenom, here about Roswell, would constantly change their version (by narrative processings mainly)- as illustrated in Saler, Ziegler and Moore book -. Probably to try to get back on the fragile branch on which they sat and broke themselves over time.

    Anyway, maybe you would provide historiographical evidences or scientific dataes to validate your new version? Who knows? Or that's only Ufology.



    By Blogger Gilles Fernandez, at Monday, June 17, 2013  

  • Gilles,

    I know you have a little problem with English, but you really have to read my postings more carefully.

    Nowhere have I intimated or hinted at an ET event at Roswell.

    You have got to quit trying to rub that oil on my Roswell position.

    Something happened near Roswell in 1947.

    To deny that is a kind of insanity.

    What happened exactly is still open to research.

    You are a friend, and I like you, but you are taking your skeptical stance into fantasyland.

    Re-read my copy and show me (and others) where I make the case for a Roswell ET crash, or any kind of crash.

    You like Roswell because it is a topic you have studied for many years.

    You are a kind of expert on the topic, like CDA or Lance, or Rudiak.

    But don't keep trying to insert it in this space when it isn't the matter at hand, si vous plait.



    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, June 17, 2013  

  • It is a common mistake by skeptics to claim that Skyhooks caused a lot of UFO sightings.

    Ruppelt in his book wrote that Blue Book had data on every Skyhook flight launched in the US and very few were reported as UFOs. Mantell certainly was but how many others can you name?

    The launchings were few and far between and were in some cases used as reconnaisance missions over Russia, but of course it does not follow that they ever got there, and if they happened to land there by mistake the secret would be out at once (as happened with the U-2).

    Can you provide any evidence that Skyhooks were ever launched from bases near Roswell in summer of '47?

    When exactly were the first launchings anyway?

    Gilles is right about one thing (or two things): you will never convince the 'dream team' of your 'new version'; and you will certainly never convince the National Academy of Sciences! Gilles was half joking on the latter.

    By Blogger cda, at Monday, June 17, 2013  

  • The Dream Team and my Aztec/Roswell thesis are not part of this posting, CDA.

    I don't know why you fellows keep trying to make it so.

    Gildenberg writes this (to answer your questions, in part):

    There were also sightings in the summer of 1947 in the western and northwestern United States. A 1949 Air Force investigation (Trakowski 1949) could not correlate those sightings with Project Mogul, but the Air Force was unaware of a Navy program launching cluster balloons in Colorado that same summer. Coordination between branches of the military was limited in the years just following World War II. Accordingly, the dilemma of that 1949 report added fuel to a developing UFO mythology.

    Clusters of weather balloons launched from both New Mexico and Colorado triggered reports of flying saucers sighted in formations throughout the West. They briefly preceded plastic Skyhook balloons, but their performance as constant-level vehicles was marginal.
    You and Gilles are too quick on the trigger to refute suggestions here and elsewhere.


    What are you fellows afraid of? A few goofy hypotheses?

    I know when Gilles is joking, and I know when he gets rabid about my views.

    They assault his sometimes closed-mind.

    Now remember, the Dream Team was not mentioned in my post nor was the ETH brought up.

    Take it easy, and try to stick with the topic at hand.

    I know that's hard for you Roswell geeks, but try, please.



    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, June 17, 2013  

  • Separating the wheat from the chaff with more grist for the mill...I am reminded of the conclusion Fellini's 8 1/2 where all the participants concluded the film in a circular dance, holding hands, each one a character in the story..The Navy Admiral, Betty and Barney Hill, The Air Force (flying overhead), Mac Brazel, Jacques Vallee, John Keel, John Mack, Travis Walton, Dr Fontes, Hynek, McDonald, Rudiak, all of us as commentators and observers..etc. The cast in number is a enormous sum.
    It is comparable to a virus, with the human tribe as hosts, transmitted by strange images of which we have no option to participate with. Ultimately they fit nothing, change nothing..with one exception..that is analogous to the competing post Jesus theologies and movements of early Christianity before the advent of The Universal ( Catholic) Church. Was he an actual prosaic human being, a composite of various themes, political or otherwise, a miracle worker? The totemic image has now changed to a vehicle to traverse space, of other sentient creatures..Is Betty Hill or Travis Walton analogous to the prophets of old, having visions of a forthcoming event? Our human purpose, origins is one of entertaining speculative ad hoc hypothesis, from the origin of the universe, to Gurus to even Gilles Fernandez..That's humanity!

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Monday, June 17, 2013  

  • BTW..the apparent upset exhibited by Gilles and CDA comparable to indigestion tells me that this virus as it mutates to fit the antigens of the human host,is alive and well. I should know..you could say it has affected my intellect as well.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Monday, June 17, 2013  

  • "The Dream Team and my Aztec/Roswell thesis are not part of this posting, CDA."

    The 11th § of your new posting is part of it, no? And it is mentionning black on white your Aztec/Roswell thesis/connexion. But you are stating now your A/R thesis is not part of your new posting.

    I have probably hallucinations ;)

    No pb Rich, I left the comments. I will not more insist on this flagrante delicto of bad faith ;)


    By Blogger Gilles Fernandez, at Monday, June 17, 2013  

  • Gilles,

    You are rambling.

    Are you feeling okay?

    Again, no mention of the Dream Team or my Roswell/Aztec theses. just a note about my view that Brazel's debris story is a diversion.

    You do not get nuance?

    I see why David Rudiak gets livid with you and CDA.

    You fellows go off topic to make points that are irrelevant to the matter at hand.

    The UFO topic is confusing enough, without scatterbrained interpretations of what I, Randle, Rudiak, or Tony Bragalia write.

    You fellows are smarter than that.

    Why so stupid now and then? And I mean that affectionately.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, June 17, 2013  

  • " . . . the Mac Brazel Foster Ranch debris collection, which has nothing to do with what happened at Roswell but is a diversion, caused by inept UFO researches and the Air Force to keep citizens from what really happened east of the Foster Ranch and north of Roswell in 1947."

    You keep dropping hints (or at least implying) that you know or have an idea of what did happen, but never state what that is. In being so coy, you created a Rorschach on which everyone can project their personal beliefs and then complain that they do.

    Certainly at this point you can't be afraid of ridicule. And you're smart enough to know that even if researchers cover the very same ground you did, they may reach a different conclusion.

    So why not just say what you think it was?

    My belief is that if something happened, it was a Russian intelligence activity gone wrong, since New Mexico was ground zero for these activities in the 1940s and atom bomb secrets actually were passed to Russian agents there.

    A Russian "incident" would cause a cover up. After all we'd just won a war we entered because of another country's aggressive incursion into our space. We simply weren't willing or able to go to war again so soon after because of a Russian incursion, especially not knowing how far along it was in developing its own bomb (Mogul).

    At the time we were already building an image of the US as one of powerful invulnerability (as much for ourselves as for everyone else on the planet). Imagine the impact on an American public still celebrating victory if it leaked out that Russia had an "accident" on US soil in one of our most sensitive locations.

    Some have conjectured it was a Russian plane doctored to look like a flying saucer. I think it could have been a manned balloon, launched from not all that far way; probably northern Mexico.

    By Blogger purrlgurrl, at Monday, June 17, 2013  

  • The Russian suggestion, PG, is okay with me.

    What finally comes forward doesn't rule it out either, as I see it...but that's just me.

    I wanted to keep the topic geared to balloons, Skyhooks, mostly, but mentioning Roswell even tangentially takes us down a slippery slope that brings out a mind-set that shows how fractious yet still absorbing the Roswell incident remains in the UFO community for skeptics and ET believers alike.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, June 17, 2013  

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