UFO Conjecture(s)

Saturday, July 20, 2013

MJ-12: A Real Thing?

Our diligent friend Ross Evans has provided a link that seems to authenticate the MJ-12 documents and group:


Ross writes this:

This development seemed to have passed without notice.

It seems John Alexander, the guy who has long argued that there is no official UFO cover-up, is now confirming the existence of the MJ-12 group and the member roll as it is reported in the documents that were leaked.



  • I despair sometimes.

    Poor Grant Cameron - he can't even get the classification of the original MJ-12 documents right. It was not "TOP SECRET RESTRICTED" but "TOP SECRET/MAJIC" and with "EYES ONLY" underneath.

    Bill Moore wasn't contacted by the "intelligence services" after The Roswell Incident was published either. This is pure fiction. If the authorities had wanted to contact anyone at the time, it would have been the principal author Charles Berlitz. Of course they never did. So where did Cameron get this dotty story from?

    The rest of his tale is pure tittle-tattle, with anonymous figures saying this and that to certain people and alleging that they saw certain documents at some time, and so on.

    Am I being over-critical? Perhaps I should ask another question - which is this: Does ANYONE nowadays (apart from Stanton Friedman) still take MJ-12 seriously any more?

    BTW - Cameron is as much, and more, of a conspiracist as Rudiak.

    By Blogger cda, at Saturday, July 20, 2013  

  • I think that if there was a committee to oversee the continuity of government in the Cold War era in the face of nuclear war, this has absolutely nothing to do with Roswell and like the "alien writing" citation from the website you posted That turned out to be written by a psychologist, this another instance of jumping to conclusions, making non existent connections based on inference alone. The Dreaming Team apparently missed this one. Consider the source and the hanging of a ten pound weight of suggestion on a thin string, where either intentional or inadvertent hoaxing was superimposed on a framework that has just enough truth to it ( while misrepresented) to bait a hook to redirect attention, as well as keeping the hungry acolytes of Roswell fed. As far as one man's opinion, this does not a reality make.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Saturday, July 20, 2013  

  • Hold The Presses! A UFO author says that MJ-12 was real (using anonymous sources: ""Someone whispered it to me") during a radio interview about about UFOs and his books on UFO?


    The circular reasoning that seems to work for the faithful is hilarious.


    By Blogger Lance, at Saturday, July 20, 2013  

  • Nuance, again, Bruce...

    The "alien writing" I superimposed here wasn't meant to be real alien writing.

    It was, as I stated in a reply, something, perhaps, that the Socorro crafters used to make a point -- Bragalia's hoaxers or Hughes' techno geeks or some other group.

    The "alien writing" was a hint from the Socorro UFO builders, not real alien writing.

    I wish that people would read my comments and others' comments more carefully.

    Talk about jumping to conclusions!


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Saturday, July 20, 2013  

  • cda,

    Wrong as ever. One of the early debunks of the Cutler/Twining memo was the use of an unknown classification ' Top Secret Restricted'

    To quote Stan Friedman in one of his essays on the subject

    "Dec. 7, 1994, Ms. LJ and I reviewed records pertaining to the Air Force’s atomic energy and certain mission and weapons requirements. These files were classified up to and including Top Secret. The period covered by these records was from 1948-1956. There was no mention of the Roswell Incident. No information pertaining to the assignment was obtained. In several instances we noticed the classification Top Secret Restricted used on several documents. This is mentioned because in past references to this classification (Majestic 12) we were told that it was not used during this period.”

    But of course cda, as in so typical you allow personal incredulity to convince you that you don't need to do any research.

    By Blogger Ross, at Saturday, July 20, 2013  

  • It could just be I am as thick headed as I suspect.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Saturday, July 20, 2013  

  • That quote is from the GAO search for materials pertaining to the Roswell inncident. The full essay is here...


    CDA and friends would do well to read it.

    By Blogger Ross, at Saturday, July 20, 2013  

  • Lance,

    You might want to trouble yourself to discover who John B. Alexander actually is.

    By Blogger Ross, at Saturday, July 20, 2013  

  • Cameron isn't saying the MJ12 docs are legit. What he's saying is that such a group existed in relation to UFOs. If Roswell happened, then yeah, there likely was something like that put together.

    By Blogger Frank Stalter, at Saturday, July 20, 2013  

  • That's what I think too, Frank, and have mentioned that here in another comment for an earlier posting.

    One would think that such a group as MJ-12 would have been established, early on, and may still be extant -- and maybe not just one, but several, for various agencies of the government.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Saturday, July 20, 2013  

  • Ross:

    You write of me: "Wrong as ever. One of the early debunks of the Cutler/Twining memo was the use of an unknown classification ' Top Secret Restricted'"

    Look again at what Cameron says. He talks about the MJ-12 briefing paper to Eisenhower in which the 12 members are listed. This paper has the heading I said, namely TOP SECRET/MAJIC" and with "EYES ONLY" underneath. It does NOT have the heading you are talking about. The Cutler-Twining memo has the heading you state, but that was an 'extra' document, not one of those originally sent to Moore/Shandera on the film.

    Actually with Walter Bedell Smith you can easily convert the 12 into 13, in which case General Exon's "Unholy 13" could be said to be correct, except that his names differ a bit from those on the Ike document.

    Kevin prefers Exon's version to the MJ-12 version, so take your pick.

    By Blogger cda, at Saturday, July 20, 2013  

  • I am waiting for the typeface debate to rekindle. LOL.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Saturday, July 20, 2013  

  • Bruce:

    Friedman won a bet with Klass over this very point. You can read all about it in a certain book. This was the time a well known nuclear physicist actually proved (or nearly proved), using nuclear physics, that the MJ-12 documents were genuine.

    Poor old Phil Klass. He was, alas, not a nuclear physicist so lost the bet. A great pity.

    By Blogger cda, at Saturday, July 20, 2013  

  • Part 1
    CDA is right that the Eisenhower Briefing Document (EBD) uses the classification marking TOP SECRET/MAJIC and not TOP SECRET RESTRICTED, but wrong if he thinks the TOP SECRET RESTRICTED classification is unknown or ficititous.

    Hardly anyone in the general public or the UFO community seems to really understand the systems of classification that were in operation in 1947 and continue to this day. As a result, there is a lot of confusion and misunderstanding regarding the classification markings on some of the “leaked” documents.

    To briefly reiterate explanations I have made before: There were two different and parallel security systems in operation in 1947. One was the system of National Security secrets that originated under the Constitutional authority of the President to declare and maintain state secrets both as the commander-in-chief (military secrets) and as the chief diplomat (political secrets). This system of secrets traces its origin all the way back to the founding of the nation. Under the National Defense Act of 1947—in effect from Sept 8, 1947—this system was re-organized and the general term “National Security Information” (NSI) was adopted to describe the category of information that the Executive Branch (i.e., the office of POTUS) could keep secret. Four different levels of classification within NSI were identified ranging from the least to most sensitive; they were Restricted, Confidential, Secret, and Top Secret. When I first was granted an Executive Branch security clearance in about 1980, all four of those levels were in effect. A short time later, however, the “Restricted” level was eliminated and today only Confidential, Secret, and Top Secret are used.

    By Blogger Larry, at Saturday, July 20, 2013  

  • Part 2
    Under the Atomic Energy Act of 1946, responsibility for control of “all data” and all special nuclear material pertaining to atomic weapons was taken away from the Manhattan Project (Manhattan Engineering District, or MED, actually), which was a U.S. Army project, and given to the Atomic Energy Commission, a civilian agency. Transfer of data or material that is protected under the Atomic Energy Act to unauthorized individuals is prohibited by law and enforced by penalties, up to and including the death penalty. Authorization for access to and control of nuclear weapons data and material can be granted ONLY by the AEC (or its successor agencies)—not by the POTUS. The category of information to be controlled by the AEC was defined in the Atomic Energy Act as Restricted Data (RD).

    From the beginning, this created some confusion to outsiders, because inside the nuclear weapons realm, Restricted Data is the highest level of secrecy, but within the NSI realm, Restricted is the lowest level of classification. A casual observer, seeing the term “Restricted” applied to some document may not know the context and therefore be confused as to the term’s legitimacy and appropriateness. Anyone with a security clearance, however, knows what level of access he/she is supposed to have and should not be confused by the Restricted/Restricted Data terminology.

    The Eisenhower Briefing Document (EBD) purports to be a document that was prepared shortly after Eisenhower was elected in November 1952 but before he took office as president. It is common practice for an outgoing presidential administration to begin briefing an incoming president on matters of national security so that, theoretically, there can be a seamless transition on important issues from the first day a new president takes office.

    The contents of the EBD claim that President Truman set up the Majestic-12 project on September 24, 1947 by a “special classified” executive order. In other words, Majestic-12 would have been started under the rules established by the National Security Act of 1947. In that context, the term “special classified” should be interpreted as meaning “compartmented”, with a code word protecting the compartment. The EBD claims to be a briefing to the incoming president created by the custodians of that project. So it is entirely appropriate that the security markings on that document should be TOP SECRET/MAJIC.

    Presumably, the briefing was ordered by Truman, as the sitting president. If the briefing contained no AEC Restricted Data, Truman would have been perfectly within his authority to issue such an order, as long as Eisenhower had a currently active Top Secret security clearance. Since he had been Supreme Commander of NATO up until a few months earlier, it is virtually certain that he did have such a clearance.

    By Blogger Larry, at Saturday, July 20, 2013  

  • Part 3

    The Cutler-Twining memo was ostensibly written in July of 1954, after Eisenhower had been president for a couple of years. It ostensibly comes from the White House and goes to Gen. Twining, who is presumably cleared into the MJ-12 compartment. Since it did not originate from within the Majestic-12 compartment, it could NOT have TOP SECRET/MAJIC markings on it, and it doesn’t.

    Instead, it was originally classified TOP SECRET and RESTRICTED (simultaneously), indicating that the sending and receiving individuals would each have to have both those clearances in order to respectively write and read the memo. The TOP SECRET clearance would have been granted by the executive branch and the RESTRICTED clearance would have been granted by the AEC. This particular package of clearances is one and the same as the much-coveted “Q” clearance that was needed to work in the nuclear weapons program from 1947 up to today. Given Twining’s rank and involvement with nuclear warfighting on the part of the Air Force, there is no question he would have had a “Q” clearance. I am a bit puzzled over the fact that Stanton Friedman did not seem to figure out this interpretation, considering that he was employed as a nuclear engineer early in his career. Perhaps he did not need a Q clearance for his work.

    The copy of the Cutler-Twining memo that appears on Bruce Maccabee’s website shows the classification marking lined through with a red marker, indicating that the document underwent declassification review and was declassified.

    I know that different people have different reasons for believing that the MJ-12 documents aren’t genuine, but inconsistency of classification markings isn’t one of them.

    By Blogger Larry, at Saturday, July 20, 2013  

  • Someone says:
    "...If the authorities had wanted to contact anyone at the time, it would have been the principal author Charles Berlitz. Of course they never did."

    Berlitz did not do the research for this book. His was added as an author to boast sales, as Bill Moore did not have a "name" but Berlitz was well know for his Bermuda Triangle books. In fact Berlitz added a lot of info that muddled the case.

    And the authorities did not have to contact Berlitz. Berlitz had a decades long relationship with the US intelligence service, starting with the OSS in World War 2.

    See here: http://huachuca.army.mil/files/History_WhosWho.pdf

    and here: http://www.anb.org/articles/20/20-91922-print.html

    There is a bio of Berlitz that was printed in the Seattle Times in the early 90s where he talks about his time as an intelligence operative and how he had be reactivated for every conflict, meaning he still worked for them when they wanted him to work for them. The intelligence services were on The Roswell Incident before it was written.

    By Blogger Tim, at Monday, July 22, 2013  

  • Robert Sheaffer shows that Cameron basically got anything about this story that could be gotten wrong, wrong.

    Cameron is, naturally, the UFO Researcher of the Year.

    Feel the quality!



    By Blogger Lance, at Monday, July 22, 2013  

  • You should take a look at Jim Schnabel's book on the remote viewing program. Alexander's involvement is covered a bit in it as is the subject of telepathic contact with ETs. Cameron's a good researcher, Sheaffer is just doing his usual irrelevant nit-picking.


    By Blogger Frank Stalter, at Monday, July 22, 2013  

  • Hi Frank,

    Some people's irrelevant nitpicking is other folk's lowest level expectations for basic research.

    Super UFO researcher of the Year, Cameron said this as support for his shrill claim of some kind of UFO scoop about Alexander:

    "...Alexander did not talk about the MJ-12 idea in his book which had as its basic premise that there is no government control group dealing with the UFO mystery."

    In actuality, the 2011 Alexander book has a whole chapter on MJ-12! And in it Alexander says basically the same thing that Good-Enough-For-Frank, top notch researcher of the year, Cameron was cock-a-doodle-dooing about in this latest silly UFO non-story.

    But I'm sure that he's great otherwise! He's definitely demonstrating the skills that showcase UFOology at it's best!


    By Blogger Lance, at Monday, July 22, 2013  

  • Well, you're right about one thing, this is a non-story. I do know that Alexander has recycled the made-up Truman quote about UFOs as fact:

    "I can assure you that flying saucers, given that they exist, are not constructed by any power on earth."

    Never happened, but he has passed it along. Everybody makes mistakes, the best you can do is go back and fix them.

    By Blogger Frank Stalter, at Tuesday, July 23, 2013  

  • You are right, Frank....me gloating about it was probably to wrong way for me to make my point...I really try to not comment on blogs anymore but the devil gets Iinto me sometimes!

    By Blogger Lance, at Wednesday, July 24, 2013  

  • Lance,

    Please don't let UFO ET believers intimidate you.

    Your skeptical views are needed, more than ever.

    They tamp down the nutty enthusiasm rampant in UFO-land right now (not you Frank).


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, July 24, 2013  

  • Listen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LPvfzzHBR-4

    By Blogger Michael Mu, at Wednesday, July 24, 2013  

  • Hahaha! You only think I'm right because I agreed with you Lance.

    By Blogger Frank Stalter, at Wednesday, July 24, 2013  

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