UFO Conjecture(s)

Wednesday, July 10, 2013

Roswell and UFOs generally: Nuance

Copyright, 2013, InterAmerica, Inc.

While many of us have hammered Kevin Randle’s Dream Team and its efforts or seeming lack thereof, one has to assume the DT members are looking at variable Rosswell elements.

I know that some members have discovered overlooked material and information, discarded information, and hidden (by authorities?) information.

And although some regular visitors here get distended intellectually and emotionally when Roswell is mentioned, Roswell still resonates with those outside the UFO community, such as Google, as noted by its recent web-site graphic and Huffington which continues to mine the Roswell saga.

Burying Roswell is not going to happen unless and until it has an objective resolution.

Again, Roswell doesn’t impact the UFO phenomenon, as we know that phenomenon, but it does present a minor enigma or mystery, not unlike other enigmas such as what really happened to Amelia Earhart or the disappearances of Judge Crater, Ambroise Bierce or Jimmy Hoffa.


Some people are fascinated by such “minor mysteries” or other mysteries, such as that which CDA mentioned recently, The Shroud of Turin.

So let’s proceed with the idea that Roswell is still worthy of conjecture and/or study.

In the Roswell saga there are, obviously, details that lie dormant, smothered by biases and overt manifestations which have subsumed the forensics at hand; that is, such things as the debris mess or Mogul explanation, or the varying witness accounts, some blatantly false or mistaken.

But there are details that survive, outside of Roswell, such as the Battelle study of memory metal which Anthony Bragalia has established as fact, not fancy.


Battelle’s own records say the metal studied came from Roswell, 1947.

That is grist for investigation and proof.

In all UFO events, there are minute details and leanings where nuance is needed.

Jose Antonio Caravaca has provided reams of UFO encounters where minute details provide nuance – nuance for a neurological/psychological interpretation, or a mental/physiological mishap, or even an intrusion by some force or entity that brings the events to occurrence.

In the Socorro case, one of my favorites as you know, the loss of Officer Zamora’s glasses during his observed crafts departure is nuanced information that had been neglected by UFO dilettantes.

Officer Zamora’s observation of two white overall clothed beings is an observation that nuances the sighting. It tells us something significant, but no one has pursued that detail significantly, nor has anyone, besides us, pursued the Zamora-spotted insignia/symbol seriously. That is the key to the Socorro event.

In the Pascagoula abduction, there is a hint of a relationship between Parker and Hickson that needs clarification, psychologically. That will help explain the “abduction scenario.”


The inter-racial marriage of Betty and Barney Hill is one that needs scrutiny, for its time, which may help explain part of their experience.


Nuance is important.

UFO people usually ignore subtle elements that show up in sighting accounts.

The UFO crowd goes for the dramatic or blatant vicissitudes of UFO events, vicissitudes that augment their mind-sets or intellectual biases.

If it weren’t so time-necessary and ultimately irrelevant, one would do well to examine how and why UFO people are so obtuse, intellectually and emotionally.


Just doing so for visitors here would be interesting, for psychologists and/or sociologists.

But that for another time, perhaps.



  • "Battelle’s own records say the metal studied came from Roswell, 1947".

    News to me. Please provide the Battelle documentation that establishes this. AJB's narrative is NOT documentation! Please also provide documentation that any of the scientists at Battelle in the late 1940s had ever heard of the Roswell incident.

    Also, I am not persuaded that the inter-racial marriage of the Hills had anything to do with their UFO sighting & abduction. Why bring race matters into it? You should only do so if you can show the abduction would not have occurred had the couple been of the same race.

    By Blogger cda, at Wednesday, July 10, 2013  

  • Who needs Roswell nuance when these US Congress-people have just admitted that we are secretly traveling all over the solar system:


    By Blogger Chuck Finley, at Wednesday, July 10, 2013  

  • Christopher:

    You can go back through this blog and Mr. Bragalia's blog to find the Battelle information.

    As for the inter-racial aspect, it has nothing to do with the abduction as it is alleged, but the information and story-telling in the aftermath.

    How Betty Hill (mostly) and Barney related what happened to them has to be looked at -- whether relevant or not -- in the context of 1961, within such a marriage as they had.

    That is nuance.

    Researchers eschew such delicate matters, but they may be important, may be.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, July 10, 2013  

  • We received a narrow-minded response to my comment about the Parker and Hickson relationship, so I did not allow it to be posted.

    The nature of the relationship was not designated by me, nor was I being judgmental.

    But the relationship of Hickson and Parker allowed for a folie a deux experience, and that has not been addressed thoroughly by UFO aficionados.

    Bias or narrow-mindedness won't get and airing here, unless it's mine.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, July 10, 2013  

  • Rich,

    I think people might want to concentrate more on Betty Hill (and perhaps even Barney) having previous ufo encounters and other paranormal experiences. I've read a bit about Betty's previous sightings and wouldn't have been surprised if she were a multiple-close encounter experiencer.

    The interracial aspect of the Hill marriage doesn't impress me that much and here's why. Being an antique at 59 I was born and grew up in New England. I'm familiar with small town New England of that era as my formative years were developing. My parents themselves were an interesting mix of old yankee English with Finnish (father) and Armenian/Syrian 1st generation(mother). They were Republicans (a very different breed of GOP than what exists now...tolerant and individualistic).

    My father, a high school history teacher, worked with a social studies teacher that was black. Her husband was white. This couple became good, life-long friends of my parents.

    The assistant fire chief in our town then was black and his wife was white. And, I use to see a dark-skinned older woman up the street and couldn't figure out who she was exactly. My mother explained to me she was the grandmother of the people living there (who looked white, rather than black...products of a couple of generations of interracial marriages).

    The point is small town/suburban New England by and large seemed a fairly tolerant, individualistic, accepting place to live for people in mixed-marriages and their offspring. We even had former Senator Edward Brook (R. Massachusetts) who was, at the time, a "liberal" Republican [long gone are those] and African-American married to an Italian 'war bride' that he met in WW2. I remember attending a Republican fundraiser with my parents and meeting the couple. Race didn't even come in the discussion with my parents, relatives or friends of my parents as I remember back.

    Now, of course bigots were around as they are today, but by and large, this was not the south where lynchings were still taking place and anti-miscegenation laws still existed.

    ~ Susan

    By Blogger brownie, at Wednesday, July 10, 2013  

  • And a colleague thinks I'm referring to a homosexual relationship in the Parker/Hickson hook-up.

    I'm not.

    There is a relationship, which I've explained to my colleague, that has dynamic psychological elements, not explored by UFO mavens.

    That a few guys project a homosexual theme on my observation is grist for analysis -- of them!

    But that for another time.



    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, July 11, 2013  

  • Susan...

    Let me present a fictive scenario:

    A group of red-necks see Betty and Barney on vacation and don't like the black/white association.

    They follow the Hills, eventually passing them and turning around their vehicle (a truck), shining the lights of that vehicle into the Hill car, causing the Hills to stop, and get out.

    They accost the Hills, eventually pouring whisky or beer on Mrs. Hill's dress, eventually raping her, as Barney is forced to watch.

    They let the Hills go, but the Hills are traumatized, surely and repress the incident.

    Then see it later as something else.

    Is that scenario any more outlandish than the Hill account of being abducted by extraterrestrials and medically probed?

    I'm not suggesting that scenario in my posting, but I'm suggesting that there are elements of the inter-racial marriage that need to be looked at and haven't been.

    (I have access to a personal situation that will clarify my observation, and may add it here, upcoming.)


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, July 11, 2013  

  • I thought that some time ago, I had read (citation alludes me) that Barney Hill had been physiologically traumatized secondary to child abuse/molestation during his childhood. I'll try and call up this reference.

    If so, this set up a dissociation component to the Hill saga, plus the folie deux delusional component with Betty Hill. At least that was the grist for this journal article that I'll try and call up.

    As far as the Parker/Hickson relationship, being southerner, friendships were extremely close. One chose his circle of friends wisely back in the day. There was always one that would be held closely due to like-interests and such.

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Thursday, July 11, 2013  

  • Why does Roswell seem to be the metaphorical equivalent of a skipping vinyl disc, whose axis is a presumed conspiracy by authorities, and where does nuance play into this? If nuance requires discernment and a recognition that a indirect or subtle set of clues have import into the analysis of Roswell as a dangling high wire act, where are they? Can nuance be found in bendable metal, or other theoretical back engineered strings of technological development or may the nuance be found in the conceptual foundations of such contexts that require rightly or wrongly a projection of bias? What that may be is a material, unconventional and presumed o be aerial object, when it might not be avionic, and only presented by such authorities to be so as to more deeply bury the bone, and lead astray and place afar, an actual examination of what was buried in the desert. Is it more likely to be a accident of a terrestrial nature by those who carry armed nuclear weapons, whose recovery efforts in terms of clean up became a case of misdirection of attention so out there as to be indecipherable?
    If a balloon or a crashed flying saucer are both highly improbable and yet both are the only choices under consideration while both contradict one another, what does that say about a potential intent to pile deception atop deception and yet take both as the only two paths available? The problem with ufology it cannot transcend it's own prejudices which has made it largely a laughing stock and historically made it easy to manipulate as Vallee and others have pointed out. Whatever happened was accidental, and the deception intentional. The nuance here is to look at the context more broadly at what was occurring elsewhere outside of Roswell and again it's a case of ufology investigating ufology. I suspect it has nothing to do with spacemen and flying saucers and what has leaked so far from this dream team is just another skip in this broken historical record.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Thursday, July 11, 2013  

  • Of course, Bruce, you are right.

    But how will we know until we know?


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, July 11, 2013  

  • BTW..Comparing cases that are apples to the oranges of Roswell and inserting speculative doodling of rape, homosexuality, and other menu types has no relevance to Roswell in terms of your convincing me they are apt or even remotely relevant. Instead of focusing on Roswell you seemed to create an end run around some fundamental flaws in all theories instead attributing them to nuance in cases where the nuance is equally speculative.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Thursday, July 11, 2013  

  • I'm cot comparing Roswell to anything.

    I never do.

    The Roswell incident is just one on a list of UFO events that require nuance, or intellectual forensics.

    You have a real aversion to Roswell Bruce, so I discount your views about it, while respecting your overall position about how ufology operates.

    Everything is speculation, even your erudite views.

    I have an open-mind about your views and also the views of Roswell ET believers, as no one has convinced me that Roswell is a non-ET event.

    You have presence here because you are a smart guy.

    That you have a great distaste for Roswell. as does PurrlGurrl, is okay with me.

    Chacun a son gout.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, July 11, 2013  

  • If you reread what I wrote, I thought ( perhaps mistakenly) that I expressed a distaste for the methodology, not the subject. I think it would be ridiculous of me to say nothing happened in Roswell. How this subject has been placed ( following the paths of least resistance toward revealing causation, which ufology always trips itself on) is the issue of framing the context that I have a problem with. Why? You cannot apply Occam's Razor to a lie. Nor can you apply suppositions and that is a true nuance regarding a discernment in my book

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Thursday, July 11, 2013  

  • Unfortunately Bruce,

    Roswell, the incident, has become Roswell the methodology.

    The event has become so intertwined with how it has been researched and studied and talked about that we have no real idea what actually happened near Roswell in July 1947.

    Was it a military accident? Was it an extraterrestrial intrusion that went awry? Was it a mundane balloon descent that the locals blew up into a truly odd event?

    Was it all a hoax. a lie. as you imply?

    From what I've seen, in the way of circumstantial "evidence," one can assume an ET event, without being labeled crazy or irrational.

    Its a possibility in my mind, maybe even a probability.

    At any rate, whether an incident or just a mish-mash whose methodology has gotten out of hand, creating a faux incident, a mythology, Roswell is grist for study, or explanation.

    You would derail an explanation because the (Ros)well has run dry or gone on too long to merit further time and effort.

    That's your option.

    But I'm over-riding it here, and Randle's Dream Team is over-riding it at his venue(s).

    You should come to live with that.

    Just sigh, and move on to things you think more intellectually valuable to conjure with.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, July 11, 2013  

  • I take Bruce's side on Roswell. Nobody can say ET is a 'probability' (i.e. that the event has some measureable probability of being ET). You could, I suppose, admit to it having a 'possibility' (i.e. a probability very very close to zero) of being ET.

    The whole laughable affair stems from one brief period of time in 1978, and I do not need to regurgitate it either. Two certain researchers decided the event was ET, and it grew from there into the shambles it is now.

    You know full well who they are, so does Bruce. That is all that need be said. I have no idea what the Dream Team will come up with; I do know that it will have a zero (yes zero) effect on science in general and on our outlook on possible life in the universe.

    The case has gone on far too long as PG says. And no, Battelle have never produced anything indicating they analysed material from Roswell in the late 40s; neither is it likely that any of their scientists had ever heard of the case.

    But I am repeating myself too much, aren't I?

    As for the Hills, it is news to me that Barney had childhood experiences of abuse and hope Tim H can turn up his source for this. It is also news to me that Betty had UFO sightings/experiences before their 1961 abduction. I did, however, know about her prior reading of Keyhoe's early books.

    By Blogger cda, at Thursday, July 11, 2013  

  • CDA:

    You are a dogmatic son-of-a-gun.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, July 11, 2013  

  • CDA,

    I'll have to access the Psychiatric/Psychology journals when I'm at work tomorrow. As of yet, I've yet to access what I had come across a few months ago concerning Barney Hill.

    As far as Roswell, I tend to treat it as entertainment. However, should ET happen to come up with a legal scheme to fix my "seriously" upside down mortgage, then I'll have no problem dressing up in loin cloth, animal fur, eating locust and wild honey proclaiming our new "Messiah's" coming as I trek across the landscape of Southern California.

    With the above said, I dislike locust and a loin cloth would probably cause me a serious rash. Yet, I'd fit in perfectly in the SoCal subcultures.

    I'm still planning on paying said monthly mortgage. :(

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Thursday, July 11, 2013  

  • One aspect about the presumptions of the so called "Roswell Event" that I would agree with is that all of them have been beaten to death and to those who chose to over ride what CDA, PG and myself have put forward, I firmly agree with "getting over it" and as Tim said, the best we can expect is to be entertained, by what appears to be the aftermath rather than the beginning or rebirth of Ufology. Outside of Nick Redfern and less than a handful of a few others, individuals who I would have considered for a Dream Team to investigate this phenomenon outside the picture frame of Roswell are long since dead. The sociological circus that attended and continues to attend this phenomenon is what killed it and pushed a profound mystery right back into the realm of folk tales, gossip, mythology, rumors and free floating paranoia.
    The Intelligence community infiltrated and manipulated many an organisation and event and it's a safe bet they are happy with this miasma of public disassociation as is the corporate media.
    Yet, U.S astronauts testimony, under reported sightings, lies ( as in the case of a confession of a former Arizona official) etc continue and come and go without any further pressing the topic forward by this ad hoc community of private parties and individuals.
    A proverbial throwing in the towel, preferring to play Parcheesi than to provoke new thinking based on something other than an event that is approaching having occurred one hundred years ago. Roswell will indeed fade away, and will become an obscure Trivia question for sociologists of the future. The knife was handed by the handle to the die hard skeptics by those who proclaim their expertise , the others walked away in disgust, were humiliated,and pigeon holed. And so this is an aftermath, a sort of wake for the once and future hope of serious study by qualified parties.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Thursday, July 11, 2013  

  • Phew...

    Bruce, you are truly upset about the Roswell mess.

    Ufology -- which I'll use as the category of combined UFO quidnuncs -- has always been a tawdry affair.

    I abandoned the topic once a few years back rather than have to contend with the vulgar, vain sycophants and UFO wannabees.

    But then I was comforted by persons such as Paul Kimball, Nick Redfern, and Frank Warren, who are each and all, great sensible, intelligent fellows.

    Now I'm happy to have a few visitors here that I respect and like, very much, you among them.

    The topic is shopworn surely and often tiresome (Roswell!), but it provides, as Tim mentioned, entertainment.

    For me the "history" of the UFO enclave -- UFOs and its participants -- is a source of minor joy; I like the contentiousness of Lance Moody, CDA, and Gilles Fernandez.

    PurrlGurrl brings me back to sanity and Susan/Brownie often has insights that are not known by me.

    The two Larry's are astute, Ross is delightful and sane.

    My contributors, Caravaca and Bragalia, bring new things to the UFO table, and invite further speculation thereby.

    Kurt Peters and Chuck Finley delight with their zaniness.

    Even the Rich-hating Steve Sawyer occasionally brings UFO boons and correctives that count.

    So, for me, UFOs provide a sociological milieu which fulfills the childhood awe I had with UFOs.

    And ruminating about Roswell is a "game" between skeptics, ET believers, and those who just take an objective view of the incident (Redfern, and Kimball, for instance).

    So, the topic remains open and ongoing here, even if it's just a sop to my nostalgic remembrance of naive childhood days.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, July 11, 2013  

  • As far as Hickson and Parker, I remember thinking the age discrepancy between them was odd at the time, but i do recall reading that Hickson was pretty good friends with an older relative of Parker's, which explains the connection to my satisfaction.

    Regardless of whether there's a Roswell connection, the founding of the commercial titanium industry is pretty weird. How is it that such a silly article comes up in the Top 10 of such an internet search.


    By Blogger Frank Stalter, at Thursday, July 11, 2013  

  • Rich, I suppose anything is possible but personally I don't buy this idea. Just as there are people now who think this was a MILABs case with Pease Airforce Base and Westover Airforce Base close by - which may be more believeable as an alternative explanation (assuming MILABs exist and originate with a blackops program out of our Air Force).

    But, and this is based on my life experience as I'd related in the previous post (as well as having a close encounter and family members who've had missing time & possible abductions)- I don't think the Hill case was anything other than what the participants and initial investigators presented - and even then this is like peeling an onion. The true nature of alleged 'alien' abductions are something we don't fully know or understand and may hold a possible occult component to them ( which Keel, Vallee, Karla Turner and Rosemary Ellen Guiley as well as some other investigators & participants have picked up on).

    For two people to create, in their own minds, a fairly standard ufo abduction scenario (which they would not have known of then) -- including the beeping sounds, the car "gliding" to a stop, the missing time mixed with snippets of memories, the sperm removal of Barney and attempt of ova removal of Betty, the odd marks on the car....Well, I'd rather deal with human beings raping and beating me rather than hideous looking creatures taking me on board some craft and doing terrible things to me. As that old saying goes - "Better the devil you know, than the devil you don't know".

    JMO & impression on the Hill case...

    ~ Susan

    p.s. - Thanks for your kind comment of me!

    By Blogger brownie, at Thursday, July 11, 2013  

  • Susan...

    I wasn't really advocating my fiction.

    I just was trying to say that other scenarios, some as goofy as mine, should be explored.

    But I do think that racial anxiety has to be considered for some aftermath positions of the Hills, especially Betty's.

    I liked Betty Hill.

    I think she actually had a dramatic or traumatic experience, the nature of which remains open to conjecture.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, July 11, 2013  

  • Rich, I liked Betty too and wish I'd met her. She did delve into the newage 'airyfairy' thinking as she grew older, but I think that was her positive attitude about life. She seemed to always see the good in people and in situations.

    I know a man, who claimed to have abduction experiences since he was a very young boy. He was compelled one early morning, in his late teens, to travel to Portsmouth and meet Betty. He was going through a crisis over what he was having to endure with the high strangeness in his life.

    He didn't contact Betty to even ask if he could pay her a visit or to find out if she would even be home, he just went. Amazingly Betty was home and after he introduced himself, she invited him in and they had tuna sandwiches that Betty made along with tea and sliced peaches for lunch.
    [that just seems so Betty!:-)] And, Betty made sure to pack extra tuna sandwiches for my friend's car trip home to PA. He said he had one of the best conversations of his life with Betty and she helped him immensely. They became penpals and would occasionally call eachother as well.

    ~ Susan

    By Blogger brownie, at Thursday, July 11, 2013  

  • Yes, Susan...

    One gets the impression that Betty Hill was a good, nice person.

    And while she may have augmented her experience, I don't care.

    At its core was an incident that really happened.

    What the nature of that incident was is open to question, but it was an exotic, odd event whatever it was.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, July 11, 2013  

  • As far as the Hill abduction goes, there may well be a racial dynamic to it, that is operating at the unconscious level with both Betty and Barney. After all those of us more sympathetic to a psychological/sociological hypothesis or even a more radical quasi-shamanic interpretation of so-called alien abductions recognize the central role of unconscious tensions among those 'abducted'. And along with that, the centrality of the cultural background of the subjects concerned.

    Eric Ouellet at his parasociology blog has written the definitive and entirely original account of the Hill abduction from this racial angle, that is the Hills as a mixed race couple and the *exact and specific racial tensions* rife in America at *that exact time*; and how this may account for their extraordinary experience (in a series of articles). Not in the way that has been mentioned above btw, that is not in the specific details, but approaching the Hill abduction from the same psychological and sociological dynamic.

    I'm surprised Bruce didn't mention it as he is well aware of Eric's work. I think Eric Ouellet is doing some of the best work on ufology, and that is precisely why he is far out in the wilderness. Admittedly his ideas are very psi/paranormal friendly.

    On Roswell, as Rich knows, I am with Bruce and cda here.

    By Blogger Lawrence, at Friday, July 12, 2013  

  • Lawrence:

    Eric Ouellet has been on our radar for a long while and we used to communicate often.

    I agree that his views are priceless and intellectual.

    That there is a psi component to UFO sightings (some? most?) goes without question to the open-minded.

    Eric sorts it out for his readers.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, July 12, 2013  

  • Lawrence
    Eric and I supported each others work and unfortunately at some point that he became tired and wanted to focus of more grounded pursuits, while expressing the opinion I should continue to provoke in my own way.
    I could have gone into Eric's work and the Hill incident but I respect Rich's desire to stay on topic, hence my silence on the matter of Eric's fine work on the Hill case.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Friday, July 12, 2013  

  • Long ago I read of something which may have a bearing on the Hill abduction. I think Betty was a keen member of her local or state UN Committee (whatever that is). Dag Hammarskjold had died in that mystery plane crash in The Congo (?) only the day before. The event surely affected her in some way.

    Can anyone confirm these facts?

    By Blogger cda, at Friday, July 12, 2013  

  • "I think Betty was a keen member of her local or state UN Committee (whatever that is)."

    What Betty claimed--and she claimed a lot of nutty stuff--was "I'm a member of the US committee of the United Nations."

    She also claimed, "The first person who contacted us was the assistant to President Eisenhower... in the White House."

    Kennedy was president in 1961.

    Betty was flying-saucer magazine reading, fantasy-prone fruitcake with delusions of grandeur long before she and Barney confabulated their fairy tale from "Invaders from Mars" and "The Outer Limits."

    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Sunday, July 14, 2013  

  • Like so many others, the Hill's case will forever remain a mystery. Ufology is a series of one Jack the Ripper case after another.

    Time has passed, the principals have passed, any physical evidence that might have ever existed has been obliterated or lost. All anyone can do is spin out endless "what if" scenarios (i.e., a royal grandson, a famous painter, an insane immigrant). There's still no definitive identification of the Ripper, and there never will be. So it goes with UFO cases.

    Nick Redfern is correct when he predicts that if UFO research has any future at all it will be just like Ripper research (i.e., pouring over century-old cases and proposing hypotheses that will forever remain unproven and insupportable).

    By Blogger purrlgurrl, at Monday, July 15, 2013  

  • PG writes: "the Hill's case will forever remain a mystery."

    Only to those suffering under the "UFO" myth and delusion. In the real world, the Hill's fairy tale is an obvious and easily deconstructed confabulation that Benjamin Simon determined had no relation to any real event.

    Just because someone tells an extraordinary story doesn't mean it's a "mystery." Without veracious supporting evidence, it's merely a fantasy or a lie!

    Pretending otherwise is ignoring the way the world really works and fallaciously appealing to ignorance. I hope that helps.

    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Monday, July 15, 2013  

  • Sorry, zoamchomsky, I'm not convinced that nothing happened to the Hill's. I think something did occur to them, but what did wasn't extraterrestrial. I agree the story was an after-the-fact confabulation, but what the triggering event behind it was, we'll never know. So yes, it does remain a mystery, but a terrestrial one that will never be solved.

    I'll send you some Tums. You sound like you might need them today.

    By Blogger purrlgurrl, at Monday, July 15, 2013  

  • I'm with PG on this.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, July 15, 2013  

  • Assuming the answer and appealing to ignorance: "the triggering event behind it was, we'll never know. .. it does remain a mystery, one that will never be solved."

    Just because someone tells an extraordinary story doesn't mean it was preceded by a real-world "triggering event." There's no reason to think the Hill's experienced any real-world "triggering event." Their more than two years of confabulatory narrative creation began with (flying-saucer nutter) Betty's typical "ambiguous light in the sky" story--no different than a million others from the time of flying-saucer hysteria. There is no evidence there even was a real "triggering event," so where's the "mystery?"

    After more than two years of confabulation and coaching by "UFO" investigators, Betty recreated the plot and motifs of the 1955 film "Invaders from Mars" with a detail of "The Outer Limits" added by Barney. No "mystery" then or now. Solved!


    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Tuesday, July 16, 2013  

  • If you are aware of the full story, Betty was also repeatedly informally questioned by officers from Pease AFB not long after the encounter, after she shared it with friends before seeking out Dr. Simon.

    I think the Hills did see something in the sky, and that it was classified and military. The entire flying story saucer story was a confabulation that sprang from that observation.

    Please, enlighten us as to Barney Hill's role in all of this.

    By Blogger purrlgurrl, at Wednesday, July 17, 2013  

  • Here's a good post for you, PG!

    "But they’d already decided that they were going to drive home that night. They were on the tail end of a twelve-hundred-mile trip, had run out of money, and were committed to pushing on." In fact, "By the time they reached home they’d been driving for around twenty-one hours."

    Driving the route late at night, Macdonald noted that "the Cannon Mountain tramway runs 365 days a year, and has been doing so since 1938 when it became the first aerial tramway in North America." A bright light on the lookout tower at the top of the mountain was installed in 1959, and shines all night long.


    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Friday, July 19, 2013  

  • Again, Betty was questioned by USAF officers shortly after the incident, which she shared with local friends, family, and a couple of small informal local groups,long before ever seeking out Dr. Simon or the subsequent publication of Fuller's book.

    One more time, what about Barney?

    Meanwhile, I'm through here. You're "reasoning" is beginning to sound suspiciously like something else entirely. Have a nice life.

    By Blogger purrlgurrl, at Friday, July 19, 2013  

  • "Again, Betty was questioned by USAF officers shortly after the incident,"
    Actually, Betty called Pease AFB two days after reporting that she had seen a bright light. The AF called her back later and told her she had most probably seen the planet Jupiter, period. End of Story. The AF wasn't the least bit interested in another "bright light" story from a flying-saucer nut. But as with most Believers, once they've had a "sighting" of any kind it becomes a badge of honor that they're unlikely to give up, Betty's story only grew.

    "One more time, what about Barney?"
    What about Barney? Barney was an ordinary guy who just happened to get hooked up with a flying-saucer nutball, and got sucked into Betty's hysterial obsession, her ongoing flying-saucer confabulation. Barney's one contribution was the "Eyes That Speak" that he had seen in an episode of the Outer Limits just days before a breakthough session with Simon--who concluded that they were confabulating and there wasn't one bit of truth to their story. That's a damning conclusion to any fantastic ET fairy tale or revisionist black-op conspiracy scenario. Defaulting to an unnecessary earthly conspiracy to keep a dead flying-saucer story alive is just as worthless as appealing to an ETH cosmic conspiracy.

    "You're "reasoning" is beginning to sound suspiciously like something else entirely."
    You mean it's becoming glaringly apparent that Betty and Barney made the whole thing up over two years? Not only did Betty's "bright light" story grow and change with every retelling, nearly every single detail can be found in "Invaders from Mars." All together, the Hill's abduction fairy tale is a complete and utter non-issue.

    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Saturday, July 20, 2013  

  • Zoam, can you cite your source about the Betty Hill's UN claim? I am very intrigued.

    By Blogger Terry the Censor, at Tuesday, August 20, 2013  

  • Zoam, I am puzzled that you are hectoring people who essentially agree with you about the Hill case (PG in particular). Smart tactic? Hmmm.

    And your zealousness to be absolutely right sometimes makes you reckless. For instance, you carelessly exaggerate some minor and uncontroversial facts (it did not take the Hills two days to report their sighting; Barney also spoke to Pease AFB, not just Betty). You also mouth well-worn skeptical certainties that are just as unproveable as what the Hills said (e.g. your assertions regarding media influence on the case). Is your lecturing not presumpuous?

    Hill proponents are terribly uninformed about the facts of the case and are uncritical in parroting the received myth. There is no need to be exactly like them.

    By Blogger Terry the Censor, at Tuesday, August 20, 2013  

  • @Tim
    > Barney Hill had been physiologically traumatized secondary to child abuse/molestation during his childhood. I'll try and call up this reference

    Were you able to find this? I'm looking into all things Hills and haven't come across that yet. Barney was a shaken man before he saw lights in the sky. His background has been neglected by "investigators."

    By Blogger Terry the Censor, at Tuesday, August 20, 2013  

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