UFO Conjecture(s)

Wednesday, August 21, 2013

Nick Redfern's Interesting Take on Roswell's alleged Flying Saucer Crash

http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2013/08/roswell-the-world-below/

RR

33 Comments:

  • I'm sorry Nick, but promulgation is endorsement. Your Roswell theory de jour is very thin soup indeed.

    By Blogger Ross, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • I think Mac might have been onto something that is more probable than it seems with only a surface treatment. A couple of the book's witnesses contacted me through Mac's suggestion, and I did a great deal of research based on Mac's theory superimposing Ivan Sanderson's theory with Mac's with the hope of sharing this with him, but he passed away. His passing left Ufology without it's most creative minds. Thanks for the link.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • For fuck's sake: promulgation is not endorsement.

    Look at what I wrote:

    "...Now before people get their blood-pressure all out of sync, this article is not intended to demonstrate that my views on Roswell are forever changing, so chill the “F” out. The fact is that none of us really knows what happened back in 1947 when something came down on the Foster Ranch, Lincoln County, New Mexico. So, I see nothing wrong with addressing, and contemplating, the merits – or the lack of merits - of the many and varied theories. And that’s all I’m doing with Mac’s theory: addressing it and contemplating on it." (END OF QUOTE).

    Funnily enough, after I sent Rich the link, we had an email chat in which I wondered how long it would take before we got a reply just like yours. Evidently not long.

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • Nick,


    I read the mitigation, but it's the same one you use whenever you throw a new Roswell curve ball into the mix.

    You are correct to suggest that the Roswell narrative is a confused mess, but in what way does evidence bereft speculation ameliorate this?



    By Blogger Ross, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • Ross:

    You say: 'I read the mitigation, but it's the same one you use whenever you throw a new Roswell curve ball into the mix."

    I say: yes you are correct and the reason I continue to use this when discussing various Roswell theories (and why I will continue to use it) is because I see zero wrong in musing on theories - providing I make it clear to the reader (as I do) that I am musing and speculating and nothing more.

    We are forced to muse and speculate on theories because there's little hard data.

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • "evidence bereft speculation" does no harm at all - it simply allows us to ponder on possibilities on an event that remains a definitive unknown. What's the big deal????

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • RRRGroup-

    ...as one who considers all the possibilities, I found the following quote here:

    http://ionaisthebomb.tribe.net/thread/0b4711f2-81d7-4cac-be0b-4f4e82648d92

    "...The above video has pictures from the $300,000 production that Discovery Channel funded and over saw the production. The team doing X-Ops captured with high resolution cameras an entity while investigating a supposed ghost alien at Roswell NM. During the filming of X-Ops the team was followed by unmarked white SUVs and stopped for questioning. They were kept under government observation. After the completion of the pilot show several of the team members had very odd occurances including being detained and questioned at a post office by HomeLand Security, and having agents show up lurking around their homes repeatedly...
    ...The X-Ops Team consists of the most respected names in the Paranormal Community including, Ruben Uriarte, Richard Alaniz, Karyn Reece, Joshua P. Warren, Brian Irish, Laura Lee, Jim Marrs, Heidi Hollis, and Nick Redfern fashioned by the creator of the series X-Files to be the real life reality of the idea."

    ...and, upon further examination, it seems there are rumors of a professional video of our dear Professor Redfern running around the goofy Roswell UFO Museum in the dark with 'GhostBusters' equipment, where he is reported to claim in a whisper:
    "What was that! I just caught a glimpse of a short specter with a large head! I just felt another cold chill from the other side!"

    ...SO, RRRGroup, please ask your buddy Redfern if he was just making a clever pun on those two classic Jimmy Buffett songs:

    'Smart Woman in a Really Short Skirt'

    and

    'License to Chill'

    OK????

    By Blogger Kurt Peters, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • Huh??? I did indeed make a show for Discovery (way back in 2005) on Roswell. It was indeed great fun, and focused on the following novel idea:

    If aliens crashed and died at Roswell, could their souls (presuming souls are real and aliens have them) be contacted?

    the show was prompted by the fact that various staff/nurses etc at the Roswell Rehab Center (built on the old RAAF hospital grounds) claimed, and spoke on the record, about seeing weird spectral creatures in the corridors.

    The production company brought along a team of psychics and permission was given by the city of Roswell to hold a midnight séance in one of the old hangars at the old military base.

    But followed by "agents" etc? I know absolutely nothing about that at all. I certainly never heard anything - during filming or after - about people watching us etc. And I was there, so I should know!

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • Nick,

    If there was absolutely no evidence to be considered at all I'd agree, but thee is a significant body of evidence, and a subset of it is not seriously contested by anyone worth worrying about.

    Within the matrix of possible explanations based on what we do know for sure, Morlocks with a primitive understanding of aviation do not figure.

    By Blogger Ross, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • There is a thing in science called 'Occam's Razor'. The idea of extraterrestrials, ultraterrestrials, metaterrestrials, cryptoterrestrials,4-dimensional beings etc (any more folks?) all suffer from one huge weakness.

    NONE of these beings exist, period.

    So postulating their existence, as we must in order for Mac Tonnies, or anyone else's, ideas to be correct, is a violation of, Occam's Razor.

    Stick to what is known to science and do NOT introduce what is unknown.

    When someone finally locates these cryptoterrestrials (and produces them for the world to see, touch and hear) then we can begin to worry about whether the Roswell crash was due to such entities.

    By the way, what about the Aztec entities? And those ghastly underground caves or caverns said to exist below New Mexico? I think it was Dulce.

    By Blogger cda, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • Er, if I was going to quote from a song, it sure as hell wouldn't be a Jimmy Buffett song.

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • KP, you say: "there are rumors of a professional video of our dear Professor Redfern running around the goofy Roswell UFO Museum in the dark with 'GhostBusters' equipment."

    Rumors? They're not rumors, as it is in the finished, filmed, DVD production. But I certainly didn't see anything at all.

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • Nope Ross. Speculation is always good.

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • CDA:

    You said: "Stick to what is known to science and do NOT introduce what is unknown."

    No. I'll do and say what the hell I like.

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • "Nick Redfern said...

    Er, if I was going to quote from a song, it sure as hell wouldn't be a Jimmy Buffett song."

    ...really? ...and just YESTERDAY Jimmy released his latest successful album, so I guess your opinion is simply a badly timed insult...

    ..and at least Buffett, just as other media personalities such as Ron Howard and Paul Kimball, has dealt with inevitable MPB by simply donning a Yank-inspired 'baseball cap'...

    ...apparently the Chicago-Bulls-Michael-Jordan-skinhead-look is all the rage outside the colonies, huh?

    By Blogger Kurt Peters, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • "Rumors? They're not rumors, as it is in the finished, filmed, DVD production. But I certainly didn't see anything at all."

    vs.

    "What was that! I just caught a glimpse of a short specter with a large head! I just felt another cold chill from the other side!"


    ...ahh....'UFOlogy'!!!!!

    By Blogger Kurt Peters, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • While we are way off-topic, why not discuss Usain Bolt? Does his superhuman abilities suggest he may conceivably be a cryptoterrestrial, or any of the other xxxxxterrestrials I mentioned?

    (Don't worry RR. I shall not be deviating from the topic again).

    By Blogger cda, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • KP: why would I bother with a baseball cap? I've shaved my head for 20 years. It's no big deal. A comb-over would be, as would a stupid wig. But it's just hair - or not, in my case.

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • KP: and so as there can be no misinterpretation, not only was I never watched, spied on, stopped or questioned by anyone even vaguely official during the Roswell TV shoot (unless you count going thru security at the Roswell airport, which I don't), but no one else on the team made such a claim to me either, at the time or since.

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • I only know one buffet song - that one about margaritas. its crap but the drinks are pretty good.

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • KP: you say: "I guess your opinion is simply a badly timed insult..."

    I would mostly agree, except for one thing: I don't see anything wrong with the timing.

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • ...Incoming 'wanker' insult, people! ...wait for it...

    By Blogger Kurt Peters, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • Rich,

    So you wonder why I tend to get distracted at times...

    KP is pushing Jimmy Buffet...Waylon Jennings for me.

    Ross has a bout with epilepsy whenever Nick or Paul writes a piece and/or comments.

    Canadians wearing baseball caps and Brits with shaved heads...Nick, I'm trying to convince my wife to do the same...no such luck as of yet.

    Back on topic, as I do try my best. If we take the underground dwellers at face value, yes I'm aware that Nick is merely commenting on Tonnies' theory, then how does this correlate with say, Big Foot, another mysterious creature who defies biological logic such as living in a habitat zone for so long...without leaving a modicum of trace evidence other than someone dressing up in a gorilla-like outfit posing for a pic in the wilds.

    I would have to say that the same logic could, and should, be applied concerning underground dwellers.

    Yes, Randle and company should take this theory seriously, as it would give Rudiak something constructive to do. I'm sure that he could write a manifesto in, say, 10 parts, describing his conclusions and methodology.

    Hey, Nick, heard you on Coast to Coast this past Sunday...interesting show.



    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • Forgive me Tim...

    Your distracted asides have edifying cachet, not just incendiary barbs, like those you note.

    I'm letting them stand here because it's a Nick post, not one of mine.

    I like to give Nick's posts some attention as they often sit fallow at Mysterious Universe where postings often go to die.

    (Nick should be writing for this blog, like he used to do. He would be even more famous than he is.)

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • Rich: I'll send a few articles along, as it's always fun to fuck with peoples blood pressure

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • Thank you Nick...

    Your materials are pleasant, edifying additions here.

    They make visitors crazy or crazier than usual, and that's a commodity with entertainment value, as I see it.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • I feel I am doing a good service because if - for example - someone reading your blog suffers from low blood pressure, then if they get mad reading my posts, it will raise their blood pressure to what may well be normal levels.

    So, I'm actually performing not just a service in telling them what is right and wrong about Ufology, but I'm also helping with their health too! See, I do care about Ufologists!

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • Cognoscenti have always known you care about "ufologists" Nick.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • Of course, if their blood pressure is high to start with, they are fucked

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • Nick's the only thing worth reading on Mysterious Universe most of the time. I start reading his posts from his own blog and follow the link. Yeah, it would be nice to see more of his posts here.

    Meanwhile, everybody chill out.

    It's just UFOs. That means it's ALL speculation and blowing smoke, yours truly included.

    By Blogger purrlgurrl, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • Why don't I see anything egregious regarding Nicks speculations since speculation is the only game in town, a hobby as it were, not pending legislation. If it were not for speculation, there would be nothing to talk about. Is there a preference for certain speculations over others that cause spontaneous combustion? Promulgating further speculation over Hitler makes one a Nazi? A little overwrought?

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • Thanks, PG..

    The one voice of rationality around here, aside from mine....ahem.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • Speculation is all we have, Bruce, as Plato intoned for Socrates.

    UFOs or Roswell, without speculation, would be more evanescent than they are.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

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