posted by RRRGroup at
Saturday, August 17, 2013
It's a good doc, probably in my Top 10. ;)A real conversation starter. Helped me get an article together about the Kelly Johnson case, one of the more interesting ones out there.
By Frank Stalter, at Saturday, August 17, 2013
I went to the link for Paul's site. I never knew the Robert Salas had to recover his memories through hypnosis.That information didn't come up on his much vaunted affidavit that he presented at the 2010 DC Press Club outing.Another fellow missilier who succumbed to the dark side of the recesses of his imagination dragging others with him. One wonders if Jim Klotz was aware of the hypnotic approach that Salas used when both contributed to Salas' book "Faded Giant."So the Malmstrom Oscar Flight incident was a mere tragic comedy being played out in a hypnotic trance...priceless.
By Tim Hebert, at Saturday, August 17, 2013
I think it's important that I clarify my note about Bob Salas, before that certifiable jihadist James Carlson latches on to this - I think the fact that he underwent hypnosis actually indicates that something happened to him in the late 1960s (note that I am not suggesting that it was something paranormal - merely something traumatic), probably related to his military service, and that he was making an honest effort to come to grips with it as best he could. He just came up with the wrong answer. But he's an honourable man who really believes what he's saying in my opinion, even though he's wrong. It can happen. Now Hastings, on the other hand - the yin to Carlson's bonkers yang - is another story altogether.PK
By Paul Kimball, at Saturday, August 17, 2013
Yes, Paul, Hastings is in a totally category...
Paul,Well thanks for that decidedly dilettantish effort; riven with all the misplaced certitude of a fairground tasseographer.
By Ross, at Saturday, August 17, 2013
Could someone please explain to me who this "Ross" is?
Ross Evans...At the edge of the RRRGroup but his own man.Smart as a whip, opinionated. and flush with UFO info.(He will tell you more I hope.)RR
By RRRGroup, at Saturday, August 17, 2013
Good for him. Let me know when he actually does something. You know - like make a film, or write a book... PK
Tim,Hastings - as bad as he is (and that's pretty bad) - is nowhere near as bad as Carlson, who is unhinged. That you skeptical sorts cut him any slack is to your discredit.Paul
Paul,It bespeaks a certain egotism when one defines worthwhile activity as existing only within the bounds of their own field of endeavour.There is a world beyond your oeuvre
Ross,You have quite the grasp of unintentional irony, I see. Alas, no real skill at insults. Pretty thin gruel.I'm afraid I'm just not aware of any contributions that you've made in any oeuvre that would qualify you to toss the term "dilettante" around. But you obviously have access to a thesaurus. That's a good start!So "rock on" if your casual smugness makes you feel good. PK P.S. I'm only engaging in this farcical exchange because I know it will amuse Rich.
Thank you, Paul,I am amused....and it has made my night a little less happenless.RR
Happy to oblige, Rich, but I couldn't have done it without this Ross fellow, whoever he is. :-)PK
Paul,I found your breathless dismissal of numerous cases, ones that have commanded the attention of dedicated researchers for years, very irksome.As is so often the case in this field, sagehood begets both intellectual indolence and hubris.Lest my sesquipedalianism further vex Paul, I will endeavour to be more syllabically parsimonious in future.
Thank you Ross,Paul is a temperate fellow, who wants to dialogue about substantive issues.The usual UFO back-and-forths don't enthuse him (nor me, actually).I often dismiss comments from those who want to argue behavorial personalities -- that's my job.Paul is brilliant, as are you, so one can understand a bumping of heads about things, but there is a way to do that and a way not to.One has to determine which way is best for the venue in which they find themselves.Fortunately neither you nor Paul has stepped over any lines here, thus far, as I see it.RR
...once again, allow me to mention the Cisco Grove case, for which I have a slight fondness.......now I guess I'll go read PK's list...
By Kurt Peters, at Saturday, August 17, 2013
Ah, now I understand. Ross's favorite case was not on Paul's Top Ten list.Paul, thanks for the clarification concerning Robert Salas. Salas has always perplexed me...he served in the same squadron as I did...Different decade, 1968 vs 1980s. I'm leaning more and more towards a hoax played on him while he was on alert. There is proof that such a thing did occur at Malmstrom back in the late 1960s, could his had been Salas? It would explain a lot of things. We were all young officers out of college and were not above pranking are fellow crewmembers.Yes, James Carlson can be abrasive at times, he himself has readily admitted it to be so. I call him via phone every now and then and find him to be to opposite of what ever persona that he presents in his online interactions.So, we skeptics have Carlson and the other side has Hastings...throw in Rudiak for good measure...I call it a wash.
Ross,It's short simply because it's just a blog post. One thing I've learned from Rich is that blogs are no place to conduct in-depth analysis! :-)You get worked up about things far too easily, and take it all far too seriously. It's just my opinion on the cases that wound up in my film, offered because someone asked me the question and because I have a blog. If you don't find it worthwhile, then just move on to something you do, which I suspect will always be something with which you agree.A final word, and then we can hopefully agree to let this peter out. Just because researchers have worked on something for decades - even if true - doesn't mean that a case has merit. The researchers could be wrong, or incompetent, or both, no matter how diligent or honest they are. The believers never seem to grasp that simple fact of life.Anyway, as I said, it's just one person's opinion. PK
Tim,I think you're quite possibly correct with the practical joke angle - it would seem to fit. One other thing you may find of interest. When I interviewed Bob in 2006, I asked him for photos that we could shoot of him from his military days. I know my dad, who served for a few years in the 1950s, still has dozens of him from his RCAF days, as does my mom, who also served. So did Bruce Bailey and Charles Halt, former officers who appeared in the film. Bob on the other hand only had one, the portrait photo that is always used in any film in which he appears. He also had his old flight jacket, so we used that as well, but that was it. I found that odd, and throughout the interview, and in subsequent conversations, I always got the impression that the late 1960s were a trying time for Bob (he mentioned he had been divorced), and that he had left a lot of it behind. Like I said, I believe him to be honestly trying to remember things as best he can, but I think there were a lot of factors at work that skewered that memory for him.In short, whilst I have faith in Bob Salas as a decent and honourable human being, I don't have any faith in the Malmstrom AFB UFO "incident".Best,Paul
OT:...can this be the missing Roswell-Refern-RAF link that will provide clarity?:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2396001/The-RAFs-secret-spies-Declassified-CIA-documents-reveal-British-pilots-flew-U2-missions-Soviet-Union-Cold-War.html
By Kurt Peters, at Sunday, August 18, 2013
Paul,There is an obvious corollary to that. Let's hope that one day both sides will know the sum of their respective follies.
By Ross, at Sunday, August 18, 2013
"2. Tehran, 1976 - Still stands the test of time as an unsolved case. Genuinely mysterious."A routine State Dept telex was copied directly from several sensationalist Iranian newspaper reports during the week-long climax of a typical "UFO" scare. The scare had been going on for a month and began as northern villagers' reports of a giant bird or strange helicopter. Finally, in typical "UFO" hysterial "flap" manner--stoked by continued sensationalist newspaper reports--the hysteria climaxed and it was over. There is absolutely no evidence that any of it happened the way the newspapers claimed, which was simply repeated in the telex.Col McKenzie said: "I didn't talk to the Iranian pilots.... I didn't talk to anybody who did talk to him.... I got a lot of it from the newspapers...." And pilot Jafari adopted the very same composite media-manufactured narrative of the event as his own story, which he repeats for money, the prime motivator of the "UFO" myth. The only other thing in the sky over northern Iran that night was a passenger jet. An inexperienced pilot was looking for a "UFO" but found only stars, something that his equipment was useless against, so he recites the sensationalist newspaper story.Every other "UFO" fairy tale is just as easily explained as confused and hysterical episodes, hoaxes and confabulations occurring within the ongoing "UFO" collective delusion. But believers simply ignore these real-world explanations and hold on to their catalogue of false beliefs about the world, known as a "delusion" to social scientists.
By zoamchomsky, at Thursday, August 22, 2013
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