UFO Conjecture(s)

Wednesday, August 21, 2013

The Revelations to Jesus, Muhammad, and George Adamski?

Copyright 2013, InterAmerica, Inc.

While watching the PBS three hour presentation about the prophet Muhammad last night [8/20], I was struck, gain, by something that has been bothersome, to me, for a long time now.

It’s the concept of revelations – the imparting of “information” to men and women that purportedly comes from a divine source, God.

Sometimes the revelations come via “angels” or directly from God Itself.

Religious sects and movements have begun from those thrusts of “divine interventions” as you well know: Akhenaton (and his one god belief), Abraham and Moses (and their one God), Jesus (as God), Muhammad (as the prophet of his one god, Allah), Joseph Smith (and his Mormon god) et al.

There are a slew of revelatory communications or transmittals.

The thing that is disturbing, to me, is how often those communications are intrinsically errant or just plain goofy.

Whether it’s the proposal to kill one’s son [Abraham and Isaac] or the idea that Jesus roamed America after his death, the information is not unlike that supposedly imparted to persons like George Adamski and his fellow contactees of the 1950s:

How is Jesus telling his disciples that heaven is a house of many mansions different than Adamski being told that many people from other worlds were visiting Earth?

Moses told that he couldn’t enter the “promised land” [Israel] because he slighted Yahweh [God] or the nocturnal episode of Muhammad as recounted by Britannica:

Muhammad was taken by the archangel Gabriel on the winged steed Burāq to Jerusalem. From the rock upon which Abraham offered to sacrifice his son (now the site of the Dome of the Rock, one of Islam’s earliest and greatest mosques), they ascended through all the higher states of being to the Divine Presence itself. At one point Gabriel explained that he could go no farther because, were he to do so, his wings would be burned; that is, Muhammad had reached a state higher than that of the archangels. Muhammad is said to have received the supreme treasury of knowledge while he stood and then prostrated himself before the divine throne.

How does that differ, substantively, from Adamski’s alleged trips in his extraterrestrial scout ships to Venus or the other side of the Moon?

If one takes the time to scour religious literature, arcane and not, one will find tales that mimic Adamski’s (and his contactee cohorts); the Books of Enoch for instance.
My point?

Who is to say that George Adamski was not riddled [sic] by the same force or “external agent” that interacted with Ezekiel or Joseph Smith?

Or can we conclude that the major progenitors of religion were all just mentally afflicted?

Yes, that is a possibility, but an unlikely one as the resultant messages received by prophets, sons of God, and religious instigators all reek of the same kind of mystical nonsense: Heaven awaits those who follow the path I, God, am providing.

Insanity is unique to the insane; that is, their paranoiac observations, their schizophrenic outbursts, reside inside a confluence of memories and happenstances that are theirs alone and accordingly unique – the oneiric stuff that Jose Caravaca says his UFO witnesses provide to create the encounters he has listed for us.

The divinely inspired avatars that humanity believes are messengers of God or God Himself deliver the same basic message(s): do good, love God, and Heaven will be your ultimate destination – no nitty-gritty details in that to confound believers.

Adamski’s message(s) – do not despoil he Earth by using atomic weapons, be kind to your neighbors, and make sure these revelations are passed around -- are quite like that given to the Holy men we revere.

So perhaps, we shouldn’t be too quick to dismiss Professor Adamski. He may have been fooled by the very same “divinities” that fooled Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, and Joseph Smith, among many, many other lesser lights.



  • "So perhaps, we shouldn’t be too quick to dismiss Professor Adamski. He may have been fooled by the very same “divinities” that fooled Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, and Joseph Smith, among many, many other lesser lights."

    He may also have used the same type of methodology, hoping to one day achieve the same effect.

    Is it moral to lie to people if the goal is something for their own good/benefit? If a mother looks upon her dying son and attempts to comfort him by telling him "Don't worry, you're going to be okay", is that necessarily wrong? It's a 'noble lie', so to speak.

    By Blogger Parakletos, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • P:

    Your query about lying would take us far afield of my point with this piece.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • If you take religion out of the equation, nearly all of the folks you mentioned led significant reforming social movements, revolutions etc and back in the day, even now the term God is used in the same manner, as a stamp of approval for nearly everything under the sun. I suspect our friend Mr A was of the same cloth, only he used "saucer people" in place of God. Certainly he had a social agenda, which is downplayed in books, media etc. The UFO was an entre, a playing card that one could say, he used effectively. No, I don't think he was deluded in the manner of having visions, but he did have a vision of being the leader of a social movement. The concept of visions is misunderstood from both a Islamic and Christian perspective, but thats another off topic story..,

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • "If one takes the time to scour religious literature, arcane and not, one will find tales that mimic Adamski’s (and his contactee cohorts); the Books of Enoch for instance."

    Or, Admaski mimicked them, a big difference...nothing precluded Adamski from developing self righteousness on his own.

    True righteousness was a rare commodity or so Biblical scripture would have us infer.

    Manufactured righteousness, now that's a different story...

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • In reading Nick Redfern's excellent account of the 1950s/60s contactees in his book "Contactees," one will see that there would have to have been a conspiracy of persons, reading and using content from obscure tales and "books" -- like that of Enoch -- to duplicate what I see as similar "contact" from the divinities of old.

    It seems more reasonable, to me, to accept the contactee episodes as authentic thrusts by the same thing or things that contacted the prophets we revere -- the point I was making in my piece.

    Yes, Adamski and all could have promulgated their tales from readings of the old "theologies" and maybe did, but I think one has to consider the option I propose.

    The similarities of the contactee "tales" to the episodes noted require us to do so.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • The prophets of old demanded/pleaded with the targeted population to veer back onto the "path of righteousness" and to FEAR God. Not love Him.

    Fear being the wrath and final judgement that God would impart on them.

    Adamski? "... do not despoil he Earth by using atomic weapons, be kind to your neighbors, and make sure these revelations are passed around..."

    A big difference, a totally different message that hints with Jungian philosophy of the masses collected hysteria during the Cold War.

    Adamski, the father of New Ageism whose holy tablets were given to him by a Venusian or those hidden cities on the far side of the moon?

    Check out the Russian photos from Luna 3 (1959) and you see a sobering reality, as well as, what is now known of Venus, an equally sobering reality that were Adamski alive today, I wager that he would have a hard time swallowing his ET message.

    I do understand where you are going with this, but I have a hard time equating the two.

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • Geez, Tim....

    Don't be thick.

    The messages/revelations to the prophets were invariably wrong and obfuscatingly bizarre, leading them down wrong paths ultimately.

    The same to Adamski and his contactee cohorts.

    It's not the specifics but the general tenor of the "revelations."

    Is your belief in God/Jesus getting in the way of my humble/simple conjecture?

    Or do I just communicate badly?


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • Srinivasa Ramanujan was an Indian mathematician and autodidact who, with almost no formal training in pure mathematics, made extraordinary contributions to mathematical analysis, number theory, infinite series, and continued fractions. Ramanujan credited his acumen to his family Goddess, Namagiri of Namakkal. He looked to her for inspiration in his work, and claimed to dream of blood drops that symbolised her male consort, Narasimha, after which he would receive visions of scrolls of complex mathematical content unfolding before his eyes.[85] He often said, "An equation for me has no meaning, unless it represents a thought of God."


    Maybe it just depends on what you're looking for.

    By Blogger Frank Stalter, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • No Rich, I was only attempting to compare the two ideas. One ancient based (Old Testament-like) and Adimski-like.

    I believe you made similar comparisons in your post, and I was simply attempting to reply in kind.

    Poor example on my part? Probably so. I'll humbly cede that.

    It's that damn dualism thing again.:)

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • A couple of things Tim...

    The divinities pushed to be worshiped or loved, as I put it.

    Adamksi's "divinities" were not so blatant; they sort of instilled in him (and his cohorts) a fear of reprisal if their message wasn't adhered to -- your "fear me" take from the gods of old.

    Also, I hope you've read Nick's book and the books of Enoch or other Gnostic texts.

    I think you have, but one needs that background to get what I'm driving at.

    Without a reading of the texts, one will find my conjecture(s) silly as hell.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • Rich,

    I've read most of the Gnostic texts, I've a complete set (hopefully) on my book shelf, but there are some I've yet to fully read or to get hold of.

    There is an online site that provides even the most obscure texts that I happen to go to off and on.

    No I've not read Nick's book. That should not be construed as a slight towards Nick, but I'll attempt to secure a copy when I can.

    I don't find your conjectures silly, not in the least, it's a matter of one's abstract thinking (mine) and hopefully being able to intersect with yours.

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • My post, Tim, and most of them, reside here as premises.

    They aren't even hypotheses, just premised conjectures which I hope get a discussion going.

    Bruce and I bump heads here but that's part of the "debate" process. I'm glad he understands that, and I think you do too.

    We are not Kurt Peters and Nick going after each other, which I love.

    It brings fire to the blog.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • "Your query about lying would take us far afield of my point with this piece." --RR

    Fair enough. But I still think it is key -- in the case of Adamski.

    In philosophy, and logic, you cannot start with a false premise and yield any meaningful conclusion. If you hitch your wagon to Adamski, I am not sure how far you're going to get. I think it's better to treat him as a tricky philosopher with a theological agenda.

    By Blogger Parakletos, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • I'm seeing Adamski as a fellow conned by an "external agent" or a guy totally mad, but that madness controlled in some odd way.

    See Nick's book and thoughts.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, August 21, 2013  

  • Rich
    I think your rumination on visions is based on a faulty premise. If you look at metaphysical beliefs 2,000 years or more ago, the visions were dreams, which was a very common belief globally. Ibn Al Arabi, goes into great detail on this issue, and that is not to say they were not considered "messages" or transpersonal revelations from God. In fact , there is an entire very complex theory Ibn had about this, that predates and anticipates quantum physics. If you are interested, I can forward you some references. I highly doubt they were instantaneously wacked out and had an OBE. Paul's ( Saul) story about the road to Damascus is a load of rubbish coming from a Roman agent who took an opportunity when he saw one. Or at least thats what my own research suggests.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Thursday, August 22, 2013  

  • Bruce:

    The hub of Jose Caravaca's "theory" is the oneiric element.

    Dreams cannot be separated by a semantic overload.

    They are messages, as Jung makes very clear, and even Freud finally acceded to.

    Dreams-revelations-messages all belong in the same category.

    Why make it so difficult?


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, August 22, 2013  

  • My point or more accurately, my suggestion is not to take language literally. Specifically the term visions. In another words, there is no paranormal element in any of this, outside of their and our own reading into accounts at face value, once again of a external agent, presumably, a bias projection of manipulation etc that is a decidedly human trait. In my view there is no singular agent or mythological Trickster but several, that with research, can be identified. As far as Jose's theory, unless he can explain it.. it is not a theory. The Demiurge is a good example of manipulation, that is to say, nature is not interested in us, it is selfish, and biologically, wants us to remain ignorant, unless it fits into it's needs. Thats why it is plural not singular. Well..we agree once again to see this differently, but if we did not, we would be parrots and not misfits.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Thursday, August 22, 2013  

  • I don't think we are in disagreement, Bruce.

    You see revelations or messages and even dreams as "language" whereas I see such things as mental configurations, with an oneiric overlay perhaps but as a unique mode of communication that is without form or grammatical/linguistic elements; they are the stuff of dreams, as Bogart/Sam Spade tells movie viewers in The Maltese Falcon, but they are not dreams, but the "stuff of dreams."

    They are not visions, per se, either.

    The are unique communications of a bizarre kind.

    And perhaps we have to start going after the meaning or cause of such communications that appear in UFO events -- sort of like the "symbols" that I'm obsessed with.

    For me, revelations are a confluence of schizophrenic-like intrusions, from without, that afflict psychotics.

    That's what Caravaca's "external agent" portends, I'm thinking.

    And yes, I'm saying schizophrenics are afflicted from without, not from within.

    That's up for discussion too, as the UFO experience is schizophrenic-like, temporary as it may be, fortunately for the percipient.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, August 22, 2013  

  • "And yes, I'm saying schizophrenics are afflicted from without, not from within."

    Based on what? Schizophrenia has an internal pathological component. The bizarre behaviors result from the external stimuli that the schizophrenic attempts to process and mold into his/her perceived reality.

    Yet, the average abductee, contactee, close encounter, tends to appear and act perfectly normal with no evidence of neuro-pathology...before and after an event.

    An external stimulus would have importance for both types of individuals but due to a totally different reason.

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Thursday, August 22, 2013  

  • I know this is your field Tim, but I'm insisting that schizophrenics are oppressed by real, outside stimuli, not from inner mental or neurological malfunction.

    Paranoiacs and neurotic individuals are subject to inner turmoil but not schizophrenics.

    I'll provide a posting, upcoming, to illuminate my thought and sources for that view.

    And your point about the apparent "normality" of contactees, abductees (experiencers), and close encounter witnesses before and afterwards of their experience, goes to my point.

    The outside stimulation abates and the afflicted is left unharmed, pretty much, and without signs of a mental deterioration.

    The schizophrenic, unfortunately, continues to be battered, in an ongoing manner.

    Why? No one knows but it is an area deserving study, obviously.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, August 22, 2013  

  • I think you are again blurring the distinction between Biblical or Islamic visions and the sort that UFO experiences may be, which it seems you are saying they are one and the same thing, which I disagree with. As far as dreams having no language, what of precognitive dreams? If dreams had no language, visual language, or otherwise, they would not exist as simulations of a waking state, which does have a language of semiotics etc.Do emotions have a language, and if so how are they expressed in dreams, or are they not? Having cared for schizophrenics in a secured military setting, I think internal and external causes of this affliction work hand in hand, not an either/ or situation. I look forward to being enlightened.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Thursday, August 22, 2013  

  • For me, Bruce, revelations, dreams, and psychotic episodes are of a category; they are of a kind with some distinctions that make each a kind of species.

    For UFO events, I'm going to have to present some insights from Lecomte du Nouy's Human Destiny, a book I have touted here for years, having read it at the suggestion of Jack Paar way back when.

    Few have read it, but it is a grand tome about spiritual evolution, a la Darwinian methodology.

    If I'm blurring a distinction between Divine visions (Biblical and/or Islamic) and UFO visions, I apologize; they are of the same ilk.

    Schizophrenics, the ones we psyche students had to work with at Eloise Hospital in Wayne County (outside of Detroit) left me with the absolute feeling [sic] that they were being afflicted by an external something or other and they were not imagining their "intruders" nor creating them from psychological malfunction, or as we might think today, neurological mischief.

    You and Tim can rail all you like about dreams and psychotic episodes, but I will not budge on my inclination that schizophrenics are badgered by an "external agent" as it were, just as Muhammad was or Ezekiel, or Moses[!] or Joseph Smith.

    Internal agencies are not involved nor Persinger's electrical vortexes.

    As a devotee of Gurdjieff I would expect you to get the Eastern concept with which I am working.

    From Joseph Campbell:

    The first principle of Indian thought ... is that the ultimate reality is beyond description. It is something that can be experienced only by bringing the mind to a stop; and once experienced, it cannot be described to anyone in terms of the forms of this world. The truth, the ultimate truth, that is to say, is transcendent. it goes past, transcends, all speech all images, anything that can possibly be said. But ... it is not only transcendent, it is also immanent, within all things, Everything in the world, therefore, is to be regarded as its manifestation. There is an important difference her between the Indian and the Western ideas."

    This is a topic that needs more space than a comment section allows.

    So, look to be enlightened coming up...


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, August 22, 2013  

  • Rich
    No offense but I find your concepts more than a bit bizarre ( not fully fleshed out) and I got the sense Tim does as well, but then again, free floating speculation is the name of this subject and I agree, all of us would have to engage in an extended dialog and this is not the place.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Thursday, August 22, 2013  

  • Bizarre is my modus operandi Bruce.

    You know that.

    And "not fully fleshed out"? You want me to write like you?

    I can't, no one can....we are of the Hemingway ilk, not the James Joyce ilk.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, August 22, 2013  

  • "The messages/revelations to the prophets were invariably wrong and obfuscatingly bizarre".

    [...intriguing direction you've taken here Rich...].

    ...personally though I'm not so sure the messages were wrong as the various technical languages of their respective days was intended to be understood on several different levels hence therefore the supposed need for oracles/judges/prophet/shamans etc ie individuals born with especially clear more direct lines of communication to Headquarters whose ongoing training gradually equipped them with greater and greater capacities for comprehension not to mention increasingly weakened egos enabling a sufficient number of the especially talented to admit whenever personal predilection'd enabled the odd Devil's Verse or two to slip through and skew the message.

    For instance one of the stories of Muhammed has it one day he hears this woman callin' to him "Oy Sonny Jim you the one they call the Prophet?"

    "That's me missus."

    "Follow me handsome...is this or is it not a roaring fire in which case what'd you think of me if I got so pissed of with me own kids I started chuckin' 'em on those coals?"

    "You'd be an inhuman monster..."

    "Yet according to YOU your supposedly boundlessly compassionate All Father's go'n'o chuck HIS kids on an even bigger blaze for the rest of eternity whenever we do any wrong!"

    Some say his admission to the companions he now wept was because the woman'd brought home to him how uncompromisingly harsh his new religion was but I personally see that as the moment the penny dropped and he realised his insistence on the suras' literalness'd been hiding from him their infinitely greater technical depths.

    Put it this way if this civilization fails to move up a level and plunges into a new dark age instead then five hundred years from now they may speak of a legendary wizard called Frank Einstein who believed his all powerful mystic conjuration E = MC2 meant specially prepared tabs with Es on 'em conferred boundless magical energy upon a perfectly impossible menagerie of mechanical entities called cars planes ships or New Clear Bombs bringing the lot of 'em raving into quite impossible life.

    By Blogger alanborky, at Saturday, August 24, 2013  

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