UFO Conjecture(s)

Thursday, September 26, 2013

Paul Kimball counters Kevin Randle on Roswell Rumor

pk26.jpg

Click HERE to read Paul Kimball's account of the slide controversy; a truthful account, by the way.

RR

23 Comments:

  • I rather suspect the Dream Team could be in for a bout of insomnia

    By Blogger Ross, at Thursday, September 26, 2013  

  • Paul Kimball and I both like Kevin Randle, and I can imagine how pained Paul Kimball must be for having to set the record straight.

    I thank him; truth thanks him.

    Mr. Kimball is a man of high integrity. I trust him with everything, as do cognoscenti in general.

    He has a track record and credibility beyond comparison.

    He doesn't fool around with truth or facts, as Kevin does and so do I sometimes (about foolish things).

    So encomiums to Paul Kimball, a good man, doing good things for UFOs and life itself.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, September 26, 2013  

  • It is a heavy burden to die with the only copy of knowledge that might otherwise set men free. And I don't think ANY of us should judge anyone too harshly who acts on behalf of humanity and big 't' Truth. As Paul said, he didn't ask for it.

    By Blogger Parakletos, at Friday, September 27, 2013  

  • I'll echo your comments, Rich.

    I can't help but think that Kevin regrets getting into bed with the nuts, liars and dull normals that make up the Dream Team (as always excluding Rutowski). When you lie down with dogs...

    I also suspect that we will now see the end of that ill-advised endeavor.

    Lance

    By Blogger Lance, at Friday, September 27, 2013  

  • "Aletheia (ἀλήθεια) is a Greek word variously translated as "unclosedness", "unconcealedness", "disclosure" or "truth". The literal meaning of the word ἀ–λήθεια is "the state of not being hidden; the state of being evident" and it also implies sincerity, as well as factuality or reality."

    Just a friendly reminder to all involved...

    By Blogger Parakletos, at Friday, September 27, 2013  

  • In hindsight there was an inevitability to all this acrimony and bitterness and accusations and counter-accusations; it is the nature of the Roswell silliness. What else to expect?

    I realize I misunderstood Bragalia's motives in having a hissy fit, anyhow...

    I do not know why Rutkowski ever got involved with the ridiculous Dream a Silly Dream Team, and he needs to break off his ties there yesterday. K Randle let and lets his Roswell true believer status get the better of him, always been his Achilles' heel.

    By Blogger Lawrence, at Friday, September 27, 2013  

  • One day someone may do some real research about the all the comings and goings over Roswell and its various offshoots since 1979 and produce the definitive book, which ought to be entitled:

    ROSWELL: THE PEOPLE BEHIND IT AND THE POLITICS AT THE HEART OF IT.

    But I do not envy anyone undertaking such a task.

    By Blogger cda, at Friday, September 27, 2013  

  • Well that was all a little bit messy, So these slides then ..... Anything (else!) to say about them Rich or Nick? It appears that Nick may have done some investigation , I wonder what his take is on them?

    By Blogger Chainsofthesea, at Friday, September 27, 2013  

  • Paul
    In this you are a man for all seasons, that the truth is not simply for times when it is convenient or that lying is a justifiable option as a face saving tactic by accusing others.

    This is what we try to teach our children.

    This entire episode, in the end had nothing to do with what it purported to be..it was an awful episode that brought to light ambition gone sour.




    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Friday, September 27, 2013  

  • Chain...Nick is away but will have something to say when he returns in a day or so. Anthony Bragalia thinks the slides may go bsck into hiding.

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, September 27, 2013  

  • RRRGroup,

    Anthony's take makes no sense. If someone is so determined to financially exploit this discovery that they demand people sign non-disclosure agreements, it seems unlikely they would take them off the table.

    Sounds decidedly like sour grapes to me

    By Blogger Ross, at Friday, September 27, 2013  

  • Paul Kimball, I don't know you in any way, but I admire your courage in exposing the naked truth!
    I'm and old ETH believer, but it's so sad to read what many "ufologists" can do whith the "truth".
    Rich, an old-style gentleman writes about aztec/roswell and new evidences since 2013 spring (if I remember well), so the best way to handle our curiosity was to say, for example: "ok guys something is going on, but let us work on it". don't you agree mr Randle?

    By Blogger ilfakiro, at Friday, September 27, 2013  

  • And we all got to see just how truthy Bragalia is.

    By Blogger Lance, at Friday, September 27, 2013  

  • Thank you Paul to have exposed "The Other Side of the Truth" ;) To be honnest I dont like when people share privated messages/mails, but I understand the reasons and Paul stated about it in his publication.

    Because People and Kevin are good guys (whatever sharing or not their opinions), and because it transpires a mutual respect between you two, I hope this "episode" will not change this, and your "friendship".

    And then you will drink a beer, cool and zen, tomorrow and together ;)

    For the rest, what to say ? Well, I think Kevin was been "caught between two stoles" to be short, "forced" in a way to told semi truth, untruth and so on.

    He have of course his rights and total freedom to team with who he wants, even if I continue to not understand it (personal opinion), due to the past.

    As I suppose all was "difficult" for him concerning this saga if you force you to take Kevin's place "2 seconds".

    I was sure this slides story was correct in general and in subtance as Rich "teased" it for weeks now, and not a rumor (despite Tony allegations/accusations concerning Rich of "bogus informations"). Tsss, Tony...

    Sure or confident Kevin have investigated it a little (whatever he saw the slides or not), and surprised in a way by his wednesday "declaration" in Mister Jack Brewer's "columns". But I understand in a way.

    I'm not "surprised" he is "skeptic" about these slides. Good to hear...

    In essence, I then dont considerate Kevin "lied", it is probably more complex than that.

    I sincerly estimate Kevin (despite I dont share his view regarding Roswell in general and NYU/Mogul hypothesis in particular) and estimate all his job in ufology (whatever my own "opinion" that UFO is probably asociopyschological and prosaïc phenomenom).

    Kevin have been always pleasant and gentleman with me, despite sometimes I have "bad" or "hard" comments, never mocking my English, taking time to reply cordialy, etc.

    Discussions/readings between "skeptics" and "proponents of exotic hypothesis - to be short -)" are not easy, and the ones with him (as others like José, Rich, some French ufologists too, are very interresting and a personal enrichissement, even if ufology is not the goal of my life, just an hobby.

    In a part of my mind, I must say that I have the impression Kevin is more skeptic about the Roswell case than it transpires in his writtings, blog, etc. But maybe that's just me or I'm wrong...

    Again, and to finish in my broken english, I sincerly hope Paul and Kevin mutual estimation, friendship and respect will not suffer of this episode. But I'm confident about it, cause they are great persons!

    Regards and respect to you both,

    Gilles.

    By Blogger Gilles Fernandez, at Friday, September 27, 2013  

  • Let's be straight about something - the story is not my disclosing a private e-mail (something which I do not approve of unless it is done to clearly show that a public falsehood is being told), but rather the slides and the untruths and half-truths that were being told about them.

    Let's remember that this would never have been known to me if (a) someone who signed an NDA - Schmitt or Carey - hadn't breached it by telling Randle, and then (b) Randle hadn't breached their confidence by telling me. And again, I will remind everyone that he contacted me, and that I didn't ask to be included in the ever-widening circle of confidence breaching.

    Do I feel good about what I did? Nope. It really does pain me. But there are other e-mails, and they go into more detail about the slides and the truth, and if I have to I will release those as well if people try to make this story about me and not about Kevin et al.

    In for a penny, in for a pound... if need be.

    Paul

    By Blogger Paul Kimball, at Friday, September 27, 2013  

  • Rich -

    I would like to point out that neither Carey nor Schmitt breached their agreement because I learned of this first here and later when I spoke with Nick.

    Second, I breached no agreement, but the original information I had came from neither of them. I learned later, which is not to say that I investigated this, but learned, through conversations that much of what Nick had said to me was true. My original source was Nick.

    Third, in fairness to Paul, the tone of my emails to him may have given him the impression that I was a participant in the investigation, but I was not. Mostly, others would send me emails relating to things that had been posted to the internet. But I say again, with no qualification, I was not a participant in the investigation, and that I was always somewhat belatedly informed of things in response to some rumors circulating. I feel as if I have been caught in a crossfire.

    My original statements are accurate. I have seen no slides, illustrations, photographs, duplicates or copies of the slides. In fact, Nick's description is more than I knew... so there is one of the sources I have.

    I can't be clearer on this. Paul violated a confidence and to put it kindly, misunderstood my role in this. I sent him the email because he had been criticized for not asking me questions about this during his podcast... I wouldn't have answered them, but I thought he should know the situation. No good deed goes unpunished.

    By Blogger KRandle, at Friday, September 27, 2013  

  • Kevin:

    I do understand, fully, from the outset, that you were not part of the slide scenario, and that Tom Carey was the discoverer and follow-up guy.

    What disturbed Paul, and me, was your Orlando interview which seemed geared to making my rumor post a figment of a mad imagination.

    That coupled with my friend Tony saying I created the rumor post out of whole cloth, implying a lie on my part, is what has created the brouhaha.

    I'm fair game, and open the door to opprobrium by my incendiary and/or goofy posts.

    But you fellows tried to paint me in a way that wasn't truthful, as too many people knew about the slides, from sources other than me.

    Loose lips sink ships, as the old military bromide has it.

    You guys, The Dream Team, have to be more transparent. There is the taint of past errancies, as you know, with some of the Team.

    Tony Bragalia remains a friend, even though he tried to snooker me.

    You, I hope, remain a friend, and with Mr. Kimball also.

    Paul is grieved by untruths.

    And I am beholden to him for coming forward to correct the record.

    This too shall pass, but let it be a lesson for all of us.

    Truth always wills out.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, September 27, 2013  

  • I really wish it didn't have to be this way, but Kevin continues to shade the truth. In a subsequent e-mail to me, which I quote from here only because of Kevin's continued claims to have not participated in the "investigation" of the slides, or to have seen them, he wrote:

    "there is no indication where the pictures were taken. It was a morgue of some kind but when and where doesn't seem to be in the cards. There are a couple of signs in the pictures, but they are angled and impossible to read... another clue you say? Of course."

    From his e-mails to me, it is clear that Kevin was fully engaged in the conversation with the other DT members about the slides, which is participating in the investigation. If he hadn't seen the slides (and is e-mail implies that he had, but I can concede that he was perhaps relaying what he had been told), he had still been fully briefed on what was on them. It is also clear that he was making his own inquiries - in other words, investigating the matter on his own.

    Every time Kevin continues to assert that he had nothing to do with the investigation of the slides, I will be compelled to counter that assertion with the truth.

    Again, I didn't ask to be involved in this, but there is a truth here, and it is not the shaded version that Kevin is presenting. I am appalled that this continues, and terribly, terribly disappointed in someone I had always believed would do the right thing.

    At one point, Kevin wrote to me that he was "thoroughly disgusted" by how the slide investigation (and other things) had been handled. Imagine how I felt on the other end of that e-mail, knowing he felt that way and seeing that he not only continued to associate with these men, but is now telling a different story.

    Paul

    By Blogger Paul Kimball, at Friday, September 27, 2013  

  • In order to learn from something, Rich, people have to start by not doing it anymore. And yet it still continues.

    And to think that these people have the gall to criticize the government for allegedly hiding secrets.

    Kevin should do what he promised me he was going to do weeks ago - disassociate himself from the DT and reveal the truth about what a mess it's all been. But that isn't going to happen now... and I don't think it was ever going to happen.

    I wish he had left me out of this, because I didn't want to know, and I didn't care. But I was raised by my folks to stay away from the shady side of the world, and taught by my dad, a judge, and by my professors whilst studying history and the law to value the facts and the truth above all else.

    PK

    By Blogger Paul Kimball, at Friday, September 27, 2013  

  • This is will be my last comment simply because I cannot seem to get through to Paul. I was not part of that investigation. I was not a participant in it. I tried to make it clear... I was privy to information that was being gathered, and I offered advice on who the leak might have been, but I was told things after the fact.

    Paul wants to argue semantics here. To participate in an investigation, one must be engaged in it. I interviewed no witnesses. I followed no leads. I searched for no documents. Others did all that work and periodically I was advised of what had been found. I didn't know any of this until it was posted on this blog and then talked to Nick Redfern about it.

    If Paul wishes to believe that makes me a participant and that it excuses his violation of trust, then so be it. But I did not participate in this investigation.

    By Blogger KRandle, at Friday, September 27, 2013  

  • People can come to their own conclusions, not on my say-so, but in Kevin's own words.

    PK

    By Blogger Paul Kimball, at Friday, September 27, 2013  

  • A wonderful example of parsing from KR in regard to his pathetic cover story.
    And of course we have the redoubtable confederacy of dunces, among which, AJB ..as an up and coming back peddler par excellence whose conflated convoluted story lines complete with exclamatory headlines goes to the head of the class.
    And so we close this pathetic little book entitled expertise. Indeed.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Friday, September 27, 2013  

  • > I do not know why Rutkowski ever got involved with the ridiculous Dream a Silly Dream Team

    Ufologists of the American persuasion need to hear a sober voice from the attic from time to time.

    By Blogger Terry the Censor, at Monday, September 30, 2013  

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