UFO Conjecture(s)

Sunday, October 06, 2013

The Roswell Addiction

Even with the recent Roswell brouhaha, some of the so-called Roswell Dream Team members remain committed to its Roswell research.

And why not?

The Roswell Incident is so entrenched within the whole panoply of UFO lore that it can’t be ignored or dismissed by some (many?) in the UFO community.

The straggling remnants of Roswell that haven’t been adequately answered or addressed completely keep the matter vibrant for some UFO mavens.

But as we’ve seen with the recent Roswell slide imbroglio, Roswell aficionados really get worked up about the ongoing Roswell matter.

Roswell is addictive for those aficionados, psycho-dynamically so.

It’s not a mentally healthy situation but the devoted persons see it otherwise; they think that Roswell, if proven to be something extraterrestrial, will legitimate UFOs and their obsession with the phenomenon.

But showing the Roswell episode to be extraterrestrial is not only problematic, it’s loopy, in that nothing has surfaced which gives aid and comfort to the ETH or its proponents.

The ongoing perusal of Roswell detritus is obsessional, not forensically pursued. The purveyors of the Roswell alien scenario have nowhere to go to obtain proof of their bias or belief that Roswell was an extraterrestrial accident.

The evidence is not only skimpy, it is non-existent, and barely circumstantial.

But the Roswell-entrenched hope against hope that they will uncover new, startling information that confirms their belief – that Roswell had a flying saucer crash, with alien bodies, in its environs in 1947.

While Kevin Randle seems inclined to give up his compulsion to pursue Roswell, at least at the public level, his former colleagues – team members – are not so inclined.

Addiction: Strong dependence, both physiologic and emotional upon [something] True addiction is characterized by the appearance of am abstinence syndrome of organic origin when [that something] is withdrawn [or appears to being withdrawn] … An addict … is a person who, whatever the apparent reason, has become physically and emotionally dependent on [something – in this case, Roswell] so that he [or she] must maintain a certain level of intake of [the] substance [Roswell detritus]. Often, in addition, the craving for [Roswell] has a compulsive, overpowering  quality, and there is often the tendency to [get involved with] the substance [Roswell] in ever-increasing amounts. [From The Psychiatric Dictionary (with personal emendations), Fourth Edition, op. cit.]

So, one can conclude that David Rudiak is a Roswell junkie, who has, inadvertently or specifically, endowed the topic with an imaginative and creative overlay sometimes.

Tom Carey and Don Schmitt (and the curative Kevin Randle?) are just addicted.

Tony Bragalia has become hooked also, and he isn’t looking for a cure; he’s hoping for more dope.

Chris Rutkowski is not addicted, and we have no idea why he’s involved with the Roswell drugees.

But let me say that some UFO skeptics – unnamed here but known by readers – are just as addicted to Roswell, and often more so than Mr. Rudiak, or Mr. Carey, or Mr. Schmitt.

The “disease” is not infectious, fortunately, but hangs on with those named and others (unnamed) in ways that belie normalcy.

Will Roswell be cured? Will the addictees be cured? We hesitate to say either will be.



  • Rich,

    Due to the number of times you are bloging about "Roswell", welcome in the Roswell Addicted club (to follow your semantic)!

    For my part, I considerate Roswell as a "non-event" regarding what the mythmakers take it (an alien visitation, crash) and only have little things or minor correction regarding my 2010 book. But, because you have written a book about a case, you follow the "news" -sic - and you comment it, time to time. Period.

    Allow me to quote and translate with my broken English the last sentences of my 2010 book about Roswell:

    New pieces of the same ilk as those who fed the myth, will appeare here and there, or come to hold the myth. They can now only appear more than illusory, doubtful or desperate.
    The two Bishops, the Queen, the Towers, the Knights and Pawns have been eaten, but some unscrupulous players try to get back on the board...
    To protect a King who has never been on the board.
    Nothing remains of the Roswell Case.
    Finally though, it's time we get the famous 1947 newspaper article, and frame it in our leaving-room.
    And tell us that this is the only Roswell debris that the reader can touch: a flying saucer paper.



    By Blogger Gilles Fernandez, at Sunday, October 06, 2013  

  • Gilles,

    One might see my "obsession" with Roswell as addictive, but I'm only the psychologic messenger, merely reporting on the "illness" in hopes of bringing about a cure.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, October 06, 2013  

  • Gilles:

    By "towers" do you mean "rooks", or "castles", in your imaginary chess game?

    The king was once on the board - but disappeared when too many others got onto the same board. His name? Stanton T. Friedman.

    It is to him that we all owe the Roswell legend and the great Roswell board game.

    Suggestion: if a new US version of Monopoly is ever produced, the streets and buildings should be named after streets in Roswell instead of Atlantic City.

    By Blogger cda, at Sunday, October 06, 2013  

  • In fact, Christopher, one the two "Bishops" of my imaginary chess game was maybe the one you named (or could be).

    The King was for me the "chimeric" or "Graal" piece placed on a board in circa 1978 and post-1978 until today, by a group of ufologists.

    Past an current Ufologists understanding the 1947 "press release" as refering to an alien Spaceship. It was not a Spaceship, or E.T. here in my humble opinion. Nono! Only a Saucer or Disk contextualized in this "mass delusion" of 1947.

    And (my opinion) ufologists decontextualizing ALL, in order it "matches" the Crashology invented by the "same" Ufology and this modern myth post-1947.

    That's the piece I called "King" they placed on my imaginary Chessboard from 1978.

    Another episode or case very interresting one for an humble Cognitive Psychologist like me, of this delusion and how operates saucerlogists and ufologists is how they have DECONTEXTUALIZED the " 1942 Battle of Los Angeles".

    It is exactly a case where we have the same processes and saucerlogist/ufologists as mythmakers.

    Well, it is another story, but imho important to understand how the ufologists operates. At least for me.


    By Blogger Gilles Fernandez, at Sunday, October 06, 2013  

  • Roswell is more than just an addiction for these few you mentioned - it's a symptom of the bacillus that has infected all of ufology with a fatal illness. In a sense, Roswell was an inevitable outgrowth of keyhoe-ian conspiracy thinking - sooner or later a story like it would have taken hold, and led to crashed saucerology and eventually to exopolitics. Keyhoe and Scully become Friedman and Randle who become Greer and Bassett. That's what any historian who steps back and looks at the development of the ufological subculture sees, even if the ufologists themselves don't realize it.

    The virus began with Keyhoe. Everything after has just made the patient sicker.


    By Blogger Paul Kimball, at Sunday, October 06, 2013  

  • Kimball you are way to hard on Keyhoe. Virus, indeed! First, Keyhoe was absolutely skeptical of any and all "crash" or abduction stories. Roswell never came up (to my knowledge) but if it had, he would have been very skeptical. On the other hand, Keyhoe and NICAP were absolutely solid on unexplained pilot reports and on E-M cases. Now as to "conspiracy theory" Keyone was convinced that the Air Force and CIA were witholding evidence and (their) own conclusions that some UFOs might be someone else's hardware. Much of the declassified papers and files since Keyhoe passed indicate that he was dead on with that assessment.

    By Blogger Dominick, at Sunday, October 06, 2013  

  • If anything I'm not hard enough on keyhoe. Just because he was "hard" on contactee and crashed saucer stories doesn't absolve him from responsibility for laying the groundwork for things that came after him, in the same way that Lenin led inexorably to Stalin.

    By Blogger Paul Kimball, at Sunday, October 06, 2013  

  • Paul: I'm not sure why the Keyhoe bashing, but I keep these things in mind:

    1. Roswell happened under Admiral Hillenkoetter

    2. Hillenkoetter joined NICAP to counter people like Watson

    3. Watson was the emergency investigator for Wright Field during Roswell, but is never mentioned in connection with it

    4. In several formerly classified documents, from 1953-1959, CIA Scientific Intelligence department is admittedly in charge of UFOs, privately...USAF for public

    5. Everything Keyhoe reported turned out to be accurate

    6. Keyhoe never reported on anything without evidence supplied to him

    So why the bashing?

    By Blogger Bob Koford, at Monday, October 07, 2013  

  • @Bob Koford
    > 5. Everything Keyhoe reported turned out to be accurate
    > 6. Keyhoe never reported on anything without evidence supplied to him

    "Everything"? "Never"? Oh, dear!

    Michael Swords has a more nuanced view: "Keyhoe had a very fixed view of the nature of UFOs from early on in his investigations. This could have been a fatal flaw in his reasoning processes as he went forward in his studies, and it DID blind him to many "details" and potential extensions of his ideas. What Keyhoe's biases were is, thankfully, quite beside the point. This is because it is the UFO phenomenon itself which calls the shots, not what the Grand Old Man had to say. His second book was his best not because of his biases, but because he had cases given him by the USAF which were unexplainable, and, admirably, he remained true to the facts within those reports. Keyhoe's style makes it ridiculously easy to separate the actual case information from his own speculations. He's wrong about MOST of his speculations [ex. origin on Mars; dangerous to pilots; possible ultimate invasion...etc], but in the end he was right about what hypothesis most simply deals with the actual details of that early age --- aerotechnology beyond what we can do. One should always read Keyhoe's books in order: FSAre Real, then FSFrom Outer Space, etc. Then you will see him gradually "losing it" over the decades until his last book is about 75% useless and 25% keep."


    James Moseley demonstrated Keyhoe didn't always care about facts when he had a good story: In Flying Saucers from Outer Space (1953), Donald Keyhoe reported a sighting of aliens by Joseph Rohrer in Colorado. Keyhoe never contacted Rohrer, he got the story from newspaper wire services. Moseley interviewed Rohrer shortly after reading Keyhoe’s book. Rohrer explained he had given a short series of humourous talks about saucers — he showed Moseley his lecture notes — which included an obviously false sighting. It seems a local reporter wrote up the story without understanding the mocking nature of the presentation. The paper later published a retraction but Keyhoe might not have been aware of this.
    This is a classic case of a believer finding the evidence he likes — and he stops looking.
    But it gets better. Moseley reported his findings to Keyhoe: “During our brief June 1954 meeting, [Keyhoe] said he realized his error ‘right after I okayed the book proofs, when it was too late to make changes.’ Yet, as far as I know, no correction was made in the numerous later printings and paperback editions of Flying Saucers From Outer Space.” James Moseley and Karl Pflock, Shockingly Close to the Truth! (2002), pp 90-91.

    By Blogger Terry the Censor, at Monday, October 07, 2013  

  • Bob Koford:

    Re your remarks:

    1. "Roswell happened under Admiral Hillenkoetter."

    So what? What connection had either Hillenkoetter or the CIA with Roswell? Can you please show the connection, using real documentation (i.e. not MJ-12) as evidence for this, and not decades old testimony (none of which mentions Hillenkoetter anyway)? Better still, please demonstrate that Hillenkoetter, or Keyhoe, had ever heard of the Roswell case.

    "Hillenkoetter joined NICAP to counter people like Watson".

    Hillenkoetter joined NICAP on the board of governors because he had a mild interest in UFOs and was an old buddy of Keyhoe's, dating back to Annapolis. He resigned in early 1962 because he was sick of the personal infighting. I still wonder if during his 5 years or so with NICAP he ever actually did anything. A few public statements sure, but what else?

    5."Everything Keyhoe reported turned out to be accurate".

    Keyhoe usually relied in official information. However, if Keyhoe's predictions were accurate the world would have learned the truth about UFOs (i.e. Keyhoe's version of the truth) long long ago.

    By Blogger cda, at Monday, October 07, 2013  

  • Personally, aside from any hope against hope in regard to a evangelical sense of salvation toward those lost souls drudging through a dark swamp of their own making...toward Eldorado, the fountain of youth, the Dutchman Mine,etc..I nor anyone else is responsible for their quagmire arising from a lack of sobriety.

    I would let them go..since they are walking in circles through the forest following their own popcorn trail..like my momma told me, they are bound to turn up again like a bad penny.

    The best metaphor that comes to mind is a merry-go-round that runs out of gas and the riders are forced to push it.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Monday, October 07, 2013  

  • Terry:

    I admit that Keyhoe got a little careless later on, but I also think the apparent desperate tone came from having to deal with what he saw as Air Force stonwalling -based on the facts as he had known them, and the obvious (to him) way the Air Force seemed to be covering things up. First with Saucer/SIGN, then GRUDGE, under Watson especially.

    I think his frustration began to get the better of him as time went on...this, as I said, I admit.

    CDA: While I obviously have no "proof" of anything, I have basic logic. Hillenkoetter had a lot more than just a passing interest in the subject, and he was the one who encouraged Keyhoe to take the position he did, all those years, right up until the end, when his change in posture was fairly abrupt...that is when you consider it was as late as 1960 when he made his famous pitch to Congress.

    The proof of CIA involvement is readily available...and it demonstrates that every time they were only mildly interested, they were actually in control. It wasn't just Robertson, and then the Condon stuff.

    I do not ride or push merry-go-rounds.

    By Blogger Bob Koford, at Monday, October 07, 2013  

  • Just for some reference, re: constant CIA interest over the years:

    The Durant era circa 1952, then they got out, except then there was the Lexow document circa 1956, then there is Scoville, 1958. Then 1976, admittance to a "passing interest" in subject.

    1. DOC_0000015460_Durant_hardread

    2. MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD see: CIA DOC_0000015387 also Keyhoe CIA DOC_0000015404

    3. DOC_0000015235 re: no_official_program

    By Blogger Bob Koford, at Monday, October 07, 2013  

  • But zilch to show the CIA ever had the slightest in Roswell. Zilch to show that they had ever heard of Roswell (until the first book in 1980 of course). And zilch to show that either Hillenkoetter or Keyhoe had ever heard of it either.

    And absolutely zilch to indicate anyone on the Robertson committee or the Colorado project had either.

    Pretty much a case of absolute zero, as they say in physics.

    Unless Bob, or anyone else, can show otherwise of course. Think of all those CIA UFO-related papers released long ago and all those NICAP archives.

    A case of, you guessed it, zero again.

    By Blogger cda, at Monday, October 07, 2013  

  • I daresay that this latest Roswell slides (Phil) imbroglio is likely no more than a clumsy attempt at a hoax by Redfern, who only succeeded because of the combined IQ of his targets.

    By Blogger Chuck Finley, at Monday, October 07, 2013  

  • CDA, Bob, et al....

    This is what the Dream Team remnants should be looking for: any documentation about Roswell in the pre-1978 time-frame.

    Another addiction is that of bureaucrats; they need to save reams of papers they've participated in or have just read.

    They are obsessed with saving such papers -- it's a disease particular to bureaucrats.

    I'm convinced that, if Roswell was significant, there are some paper(s), somewhere that makes mention of it, or an element within it.

    If a thorough, dogged search is made and nothing shows up, as CDA seems to indicate will be the result, that says much.

    But I do think there is something, somewhere, still, which references Roswell, as the incident was not a non-incident -- it was just a minor incident as the skeptics have it.

    But something did happen; that's a given.

    Trying to deny that is denial of a psychotic nature.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, October 07, 2013  

  • Finley...

    You are so far out of the loop that it's almost humorous, or sad.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, October 07, 2013  

  • RR:

    "If a thorough, dogged search is made and nothing shows up, as CDA seems to indicate will be the result, that says much".

    But does it?

    You have confused absence of evidence with evidence of absence, as per the Stanton Friedman rules of logic.

    By Blogger cda, at Monday, October 07, 2013  

  • That "absence of evidence..." mantra, CDA, by the UFO UpDate listers is more than infuriating.

    It's idiotic, and a cover for ignorance.

    When something is absent, it's absent.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, October 07, 2013  

  • Re Donald Keyhoe, an excerpt from "THE FS are real", about a january 1951 meeting.

    Major Jerry Boggs [a Project “Saucer” Intelligence officer who served as liaison man between Wright Field and the Pentagon] : “Captain Mantell was chasing the planet Venus.”
    [Keyhoe] “Major, Venus was practically invisible that day. We’ve checked with astronomers. Is that the official Air Force answer?”
    “Yes, it is,” Boggs said. His eyes never left my face. I glanced across at General Sory Smith, then back at the intelligence major.
    “That’s a flat contradiction of Project ‘Saucer’s’ report. Last April, after they had checked for fifteen months, they said positively it was not Venus. It was still unidentified.”
    Boggs : “They rechecked after that report.”
    “Why did they recheck, after fifteen months?” I asked him.
    “They must have gone over those figures long before that, for errors.”
    “There’s no other possible answer, ” he said. “Mantell was chasing Venus.”
    [end of quotes]

    Yes, the high profile american ufologists are, for the most part, a sorry and embarrassing bunch, but the USAF is hardly trustworthy when it comes to UFOs, and has always been.

    By Blogger kolyma, at Monday, October 07, 2013  

  • A problem I have with quoting intelligence officials on UFO matters is that the statements are often selectively cited and placed in contexts most suitable to supporting the point of the poster at the time. The facts of the matter indicate that if we take a close look at intelligence activities of the mid 20th Century, above and beyond UFO matters, we have little to no reason to rely on virtually anything any of these people said, other than what can be directly verified.

    Correlating time frames and intel activities of the era indicate a great deal was taking place. In my opinion, much of it is relevant, but it does not add to either the credibility of the officers' statements or the likelihood ET was among us. Specifically, the same people manipulating the media (Mockingbird), exploring mind control (Artichoke, MKUltra, etc.) and creating false flag UFO events (Palladium) were dropping controversial statements around town. As a matter of fact, intel officers continue to do so today. It's what they do.

    By Blogger Jack Brewer, at Monday, October 07, 2013  

  • Jack: I agree quite a bit. For instance, G. Schulgen is known for specific UFO\Saucer information, but few know how much he was a major force behind the emerging psychological warfare plans, re: SWNCC 304 and all of its many revisions.

    It is why I beleive it is nearly impossible to tell where the real saucer data starts, and the psyops begin.

    By Blogger Bob Koford, at Monday, October 07, 2013  

  • And Bob, this impacts the topic, how?


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, October 07, 2013  

  • Sorry Rich..just follpwing u on what Jack said, but yes, how much of all of this information could be psychologocal plants, including Roswell (Ramey's press conference, etc.)could be very important to know. It is one of the items I am attempting to ascertain.

    By Blogger Bob Koford, at Monday, October 07, 2013  

  • I understand, Bob, but don't go too far off topic; you're tempting the outer edge at the moment.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, October 07, 2013  

  • But I do think there is something, somewhere, still, which references Roswell, as the incident was not a non-incident -- it was just a minor incident as the skeptics have it.


    Robert Todd was "convinced" if something should exist as documents (prooving it was an non incident), it could be in two files archived in St-Louis, but he pointed they have been probably destroyed by a conflagration (in 1973).

    Read: http://www.roswellfiles.com/pdf/Cowflop070596.pdf



    By Blogger Gilles Fernandez, at Tuesday, October 08, 2013  

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