UFO Conjecture(s)

Saturday, October 26, 2013

The site (source?) of Mac Tonnies’ “crypto-terrestrials”

Copyright InterAmerica, Inc.
From The People’s Almanac #3 by David Wallechinsky and Irving Wallace [Bantam Books, Toronto, 1981] comes the story of Shambhala [Page 635 ff.], the Tibetan land that allegedly was the home of beings with superhuman powers.

Jannika Hurwitt, who provided the Almanac account, wrote that “… in the 1900s an article in an Indian newspaper, the Statesman, told of a British major who, camping in the Himalayas, saw a very tall, lightly clad man with long hair. Apparently noticing that he was being watched, the man leaped down the vertical slope and disappeared … the Tibetan with whom he was camping showed no surprise [calmly] explaining that he had seen one of the snowmen who guard [Shambhala].”

“A more detailed account of these “snowmen” guardians was given by Alexandra David-Neel, an explorer who spent 14 years in Tibet.”

She saw a man with extraordinary speed who had was gazing high up in space at some invisible distant object. “He seemed to lift himself from the ground, proceeding by leaps. [See previous post about Jumping Man] It looked as if he had been endowed with the elasticity of a ball, and rebounded each time his feet touched the ground.”

Ms. Hurwitt tells the story of Nicholas Roerich’s expedition, 1925-1926 [noted in my post about Wilhelm Reich].

Roerich and his colleagues saw a huge disk in the sky, which they watched with binoculars as it changed direction and disappeared behind Humboldt mountain.

“The Tibetan lamas [with] Roerich exclaimed ‘The sign of Shambhala!’”

“Two airships were also observed by British mountaineer Fran Smythe while on Everest in 1933. He recorded having seen two dark objects, one with squat wings and the other with a sort of beak, surrounded by a pulsating aura at an altitude of 26,000 ft. The most recent sighting was made  near Shillong, Assam in India in 1967. A whirling disk hovered  650 ft. above the ground and then dived  into a river, creating a huge vortex and a lot of noise. It then reappeared, ascended, and flew in a zigzag pattern over the jungle until it disappeared.”

Tibetan texts say the technology of Shambhala is highly advanced, its inhabitants  using aircraft and  cars that shuttle through a network of underground tunnels. Shambhalans have powers of clairvoyance, the ability to move at great speeds, and the ability to materialize and disappear at will.

The first stories of the mysterious place came from two Catholic missionaries who, around 1627 mentioned the “kingdom” in their letters sent home.

Madame Elena Petrovna Blavatsky and her Theosophical Society presented Shambhala to her acolytes in the late 1800s.

Ms. Hurwitt points to Western scholar Edwin Bernbaum, as the source of recent material about Shambhala, he having tried to locate its physical place, even conceding it “could exist on another planet or at the edge of our physical reality, but [believing] that the most likely explanation is that Shambhala was once a real kingdom which now has faded into the realm of myth.”

RR 

25 Comments:

  • For millennia, humans have been breeding all sorts of useful flora and fauna to serve and amuse. Is it so strange that we would turn these possibilities on ourselves? It would be shocking if such a thing was not done in the grand orient, where religious restrictions on such concerns are/were almost nonexistent. Could the "Crypto-terrestrials" be the results of various elites breeding programs for the perfect soldier, or the perfect spy?
    A "breakaway civilization", or a secret arm of those with finances and history to persist in such curious meddling?
    I'm recalling a scene in a bookstore from Pat Conroy's Report On Communion.
    It's disturbingly and enticingly plausible. And true.

    By Blogger The Puppetburglar, at Saturday, October 26, 2013  

  • Alexandra David-Neel made an important distinction inadvertently left out of your post which was the term "Tulpa" that described the "ghosts" of this region as Tulpa which translates to ''thought form".
    This is also related to the supernatural aspects ascribed to Sufi Sheikhs, who allegedly had the capability to project these images at will, which is somewhat related to the Native American concept of a "Skinwalker"that of a projected thought form versus a material creature.
    In our own time, as in Jose's "tales" of the erstwhile "ghosts" of spacemen manipulated by a external agent, the concept of projected thought forms remain with us.
    All of this relates to a severely foreshortened synopsis of a theme related to a variety of causes in consciousness studies such as autosuggestion, disassociation , PSI phenomenon and on and on.
    Of course if taken literally they make no sense whatsoever.
    Shambala according to recent research was a actual kingdom and last year there was a fascinating documentary on National geographic regarding a recent expedition which found remarkable dwellings cut into mountain sides..whose art is in peril of being lost forever. The gist of this being, there are alternative takes, as to be expected, on this subject.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Sunday, October 27, 2013  

  • For anyone interested..
    Here is a brief essay on the history and search for this hidden kingdom..
    which relates to the often common kernals of truth in mythologies as a means of verbal transmission regarding historic events.

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/11/091117-shangri-la-secrets-tibet-treasures-caves.html

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Sunday, October 27, 2013  

  • My post material came directly from the book content, not the internet! content Bruce.

    Tulpas were not in that book material.

    So I didn't inadvertently leave out anything.

    I am not a "tulpa" fan -- it, to me, is like The Trickster thing, a diversion that non-intellectuals use to pretend they are educated about matters.

    Again, I'm using books, not the internet, to enlighten readers here.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, October 27, 2013  

  • The things Alexandra David-Neel saw! She embraced indiginous cultures, while living in the east;though they may have had different interpretations of reality. I'm surprised that one of the better production companies in Hollywood hasn't done her biopic or that HBO hasn't done a mini-series on her. It would have everything in it from lots of lovers, expeditions, pesky Tulpas (careful with creating those thought-forms!), opera-singing in Vietnam and finally sliding out of this existence as a centogenarian who squeezed every bit out of life.

    ** I appreciate The Puppetburglar's idea --re. Crypto-terrestrials.

    And a nod also on that particularly disturbing bookstore encounter from Pat Conroy's Report On Communion. Best not to look too closely at people's faces while walking on sidewalks in large cities and shopping in urban stores. One might get a disconcerting eyefull.

    ~ Susan

    By Blogger brownie, at Sunday, October 27, 2013  

  • Tulpas? Let me kill myself!

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, October 27, 2013  

  • It puzzles me why you think the Tulpa or Sufi reference came from the internet, (which is sort of humorous in terms of your valuation of it) but at any event, I do think the Geographic material stands on it's own regardless of what media it was formulated in. I know that anything of a paranormal non-material nature tends to irk you, I thought it was worth risking your ire to present another context, although it's somewhat verboten..lol.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Sunday, October 27, 2013  

  • I'm not averse to "thought forms" or Tulpas, per se, Bruce.

    Or jinns or The Trickster.

    I am averse to the use of the terms so loosely by UFO quidnuncs, of which you and Susan are not one(s).

    Inserting Tulpas in comments or postings moves me and others to seek other sources of enlightenment.

    While the "terms" are not exactly off-topic, they irk my sensibilities.

    Even when Nick Redfern uses Tulpas in his writings or that damnable chupacabra thing (or whatever its called), I cringe.

    Also, the point of my post was the Mac Tonnies crypto-terrestrial connection to Shambhala, but we got off-topic as usual, with attention to a minor detail. The tree for the forest.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, October 27, 2013  

  • Ms David-Neel was indeed a much overlooked character, and I too am amazed she hasn't been abducted by cinematic myth makers. She is also the source of one of m'favorite quotes, a response to a question posed on her 100th birthday about how it felt to have reached that age. She replied "I feel as though God has played a very cruel joke on me."

    By Blogger Charles Swenson, at Sunday, October 27, 2013  

  • In direct terms of a historical \ mythological basis to Mac's premise of a technologically advanced terrestrial source for the UFO phenomenon, I think he came close to the source but not in a literal sense of a cartographic and material nexus to this subject.

    In terms of geology and archaeology, certainly there are enough anomalies to leave the door of lost histories open to interpretation, but in the context of this phenomenon I think it's a bridge too far and lacks coherence in terms of any means of validating it, unless we take a fundamentalist view of mythology.

    As for myself, I think the synthesis of innovating Bradbury's Martian Chronicles by way of Tonnie's Martian Apocalypse, that then was further developed into Cryptoterrestrial theory, which also had as it's platform, the concept of a technologically lost civilization is easy enough to trace in terms of an evolving theme.

    I think what he accomplished was a brilliant metaphor but to take any author's work too literally goes into the realm of an upside down view of the possible or likely.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Sunday, October 27, 2013  

  • In my back-and-forths with Mac, I didn't get the impression he was expressing a metaphor.

    Maybe Paul can enlighten us about that.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, October 27, 2013  

  • I have little doubt that Mac took this as a literal theory rather than a metaphor, but the way I see his theory as a working premise is to place it in the context of a metaphor, so in this sense, your view is spot on in terms of his intent. But again, it makes sense as a metaphor more as ghosts in the machine, rather than a parallel humanoid species. I think he came close but in it's fullest literal sense, I just don't see it as a viable theory, as creative as it was (is).

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Sunday, October 27, 2013  

  • I see it, Bruce, with the Shambhala "myth" as more than a metaphor; a viable hypothesis.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, October 27, 2013  

  • Continued..
    There is a direct thread linking the earlier formulations of conceptual realities in the debate that the Valentinians lost to the Universalists in a theological context.
    In other words, I think Mac could have taken this to the next level as one who has experienced just how "active" a role the parallel and non material world can be. This is the issue, reading about such things in books versus having direct experience, not to downgrade or to assume a superior position, but it simply is the way things work out in terms of experience. Undoubtedly, if the Valentians came back, they would still be handed their ass in a hat if they again suggested that the literal view of reality was "a dry canal"

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Sunday, October 27, 2013  

  • If I were able to grasp your comment, Bruce, I'd respond, however...

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, October 27, 2013  

  • The Universal Church like the majority of "Ufologists" took writings quite literally, they were the sort of nuts and bolts group versus the Valentinians who took a more metaphorical view of alleged facts. What I was poorly attempted to convey is that appearances by their nature are deceiving, especially when it comes to hard craft or the interpretation that this is what we are dealing with, a plane of physicality and that view just happens to be antithetical to what you propose. There are creatures who, by their nature are neither human nor inhuman, by way of my own experiences that can deceive our senses..to loudly banging on a door to wake me up from a sound sleep and make my dog cower to making it seem that every dish, knife and fork was being knocked from a counter as it happened many years ago. To me, this stuff does not require physicality..although it can express physically. What Tonnies was correct in is that looks are deceiving. He was very close to pinning this source down..but transposed it into the wrong literal category of hidden cities etc. Things are much stranger than Tonnies theories accommodate.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Sunday, October 27, 2013  

  • Yes, the "there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio" stance, Bruce.

    But Mac wasn't able to flesh out his "theory" sadly.

    I think he was on to something peripheral to UFOs, in their totality, but something worthwhile to consider.

    That said, I'm not so sure that "looks are [totally] deceiving."

    We see what we see, as a part of reality; it's the side-bars of sight that deceive perhaps, or try to; Neurologically or psychologically maybe.

    Schizophrenics see it all and they, like Aquinas (and other cosmic consciousness "victims") are doomed to accept our human plight: that we know only a small part of existence or reality, and can do nothing, on our own to correct that flaw of consciousness or humanity.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, October 27, 2013  

  • When human beings allow themselves to imagine 'perfection', they often come to similar conclusions -- cross-culturally. A good number of them see us as devolving from that 'golden age' -- constantly moving AWAY from the perfection point. And the other 'half' seem to think humanity is moving ever-closer to some Omega point of perfection.

    By Blogger Parakletos, at Monday, October 28, 2013  

  • And your comment Parakletos pertains how?

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, October 28, 2013  

  • "And your comment Parakletos pertains how?" -RR

    It pertains, in my opinion, in that it allows us to begin to classify these 'encounters'. Are the 'beings' from a past or future age of enlightenment? Are they traveling more through time than space?

    By Blogger Parakletos, at Monday, October 28, 2013  

  • A little off-topic, I think.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, October 28, 2013  

  • "A little off-topic, I think." --RR

    I don't think so. I think it's exactly on topic. When humans imagine 'creatures' that look remarkably like human beings (two arms, two legs, two eyes, etc.), I suggest to you that they're not imagining creatures traveling through space, but rather creatures traveling through time.

    Creatures coming from past periods of 'perfection' might best be considered Alpha creatures. And creatures coming from future periods of 'perfection' might best be considered Omega creatures -- with Jesus, of course, laying claim to both titles.

    By Blogger Parakletos, at Monday, October 28, 2013  

  • How it strays is this:

    We have a locale (or a site) and texts dealing with alleged beings who inhabit that site.

    Dragging into the posting time-travelers takes us into a debatable realm, which while interesting and peripheral, creates a layer that diminishes the salient point(s) I wish to address; that is, is this the source of Mac Tonnies' hypothesis, and is there any connection to the UFO sightings noted.

    Time-traveling may explain what was observed, but it merely adds one more hypothetical to a topic which has a materiality for the here and now, and I'd like to address that without going afield.

    One could also attribute the myth to other factors, as Bruce Duensing wishes to do.

    I allow your comments and Bruce's because they could be relevant, but I really don't want to clog the commentary and my original posting with all the possible interpretations extant for such myths as that of Shambhala.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, October 28, 2013  

  • "...even conceding it “could exist on another planet or at the edge of our physical reality, but [believing] that the most likely explanation is that Shambhala was once a real kingdom which now has faded into the realm of myth.” --OP

    I am making the same sort of distinction made in the original posting. The key, as I see it, is that 'was once' part -- a kingdom in the PAST. Ergo, creatures visiting us from such a place would be time-traveling Alpha creatures.

    By Blogger Parakletos, at Monday, October 28, 2013  

  • You really want to persist with the time-traveling scenario, but I'm not going there, with this posting/topic.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, October 28, 2013  

Post a Comment

<< Home