UFO Conjecture(s)

Thursday, January 09, 2014

UFOs or God? (We’ll take UFOs)

Copyright 2014, InterAmerica, Inc.
Reading The Book of Job: A Biography by Mark Larrimore [Princeton University Press, NJ, 2013, $24.95] re-affirms for me that God is (or was – since I think He’s dead) a psychotic, not-quite omnipotent bastard.

That out of the way, there are elements in The Book of Job which could quell an Alien Astronaut theorist’s heart. 

From an apocryphal work, The Testament of Job [an Egyptian work attributed to the Therapeutae movement, written somewhere between 200 B.C. and 200 A.D.], comes this: 

“he who sat in the great chariot got out and greeted job[ab]” and took his soul (LII, 647) 

And from the midrash on Job in Baba Bathra, part of the Babylonian Talmud comes this: 

God “gave Job a taste of the future world.” 

And from The Old Testament [Douay Version], Chapters 38;1 and 40:6 is this: 

“Then  the Lord addressed Job out of the storm.” 

Job, at the end of his tormenting and colloquy with God indicates he had an epiphany, a cosmic consciousness moment – Chapter 42:3 [Douay]: 

"I have dealt with great things that I do not understand; things too wonderful for me, which I cannot know. I had heard of you by word of mouth but now my eye has seen you.” 

(The new book, which opens this topic, addresses the various interpretations of The Book of Job and winds down with the matter of Shoah, or the Holocaust and the absence of God during that horrible time for Jews and humanity.) 

My concern here is the choice of God or the choice of UFOs. 

If there is an alien astronaut connection within the poetry and prose of The Book of Job, I leave that to others to discuss.

If there are those who think that God and the theology attendant to Him is separate from the UFO phenomenon, I leave that for them to debate. 

Here, I choose to offer that God has evaporated (or died); he’s, at least, silent to the point that he may as well be dead. [See Friedman book noted in an earlier posting here]

What we have is a choice to pursue a phenomenon that has an apparent tangibility or reality, or we have a God that is immaterial, for our time, and useless as a phenomenon, as the European Jews found out in the 1940s. 

We can touch UFOs [Michalak] but we can’t touch God, as was possible for Moses’ wife Sepphora [Exodus 4:24] since God has either died or is hiding out [Friedman, op. cit]. 

And while a UFO may not offer us sustenance or treasure, a UFO won’t torment or destroy us as God did with Job and his family. 

If I have my druthers, I’ll stick with UFOs (for now) and leave God to “the ignorant multitude.” [Larrimore, Page 83]



  • "And while a UFO may not offer us sustenance or treasure, a UFO won’t torment or destroy us as God did with Job and his family."

    How about many of those dealing with trauma, or subsequent dischord of all types after a close proximity sighting, or a perceived visitation event. It's a definite game-changer.

    Do you honestly think those who have given up family, friends, jobs, and so on in the pursuit of the UFO are not tormented (and in some instances "destroyed" is a good word) by the entire affair?

    It's a hallmark of getting involved at all. Varying degrees for sure, but nonetheless - the UFO is a confounding that for lack of a better word, is tormenting.

    This isn't just human behavior or reaction - it's the road one goes down once the hooks are in. Even you, RR, cannot walk away.


    By Blogger JR, at Thursday, January 09, 2014  

  • Jeff...

    I gotta like you, I really do.

    But do you think that the kind of UFO torment you cite is any where like that which afflicted Job?

    You have read Job, right?

    And you would do well to read the book that brought me to my obtuse post.

    It's an interesting read.

    I'm not tormented by UFOs (merely fascinated).

    I am tormented by the kinds of comments and thinking I get here.

    (I kid)


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, January 09, 2014  

  • From my own point of view, both the terms God and UFO represent unknowns as to their existence, nature and root. Both are subsequently worthy of investigation for those with a curious mind. As a former student of the Jesuits, aiming ( presumably) for attaining the priesthood of Catholicism, its is both disheartening and revealing that you use a single source for your own investigation, that being the Christian Bible to hang your hat on. This is a very similar methodology used in so called Ufology, to make a premise or a fulcrum for a debate on a extremely narrow set of source material. Again, to my mind, this post exemplifies what I terms “faux debates” that have a zero sum. Gathering from the empty and pouring into the void. Untangling your personality from your premise is impossible much as it is demonstrated elsewhere into the theology of so called “ufology”. You have your reasons for this view and I respect them but honestly I think you are the one being obtuse in this sense.
    From John Keel’s book, “Operation Trojan Horse”, this excerpt demonstrates the common nature of both mystic pursuits…

    "Recently the U.S. Government Printing Office issued a publication compiled by the Library of Congress for the Air Force Office of Scientific Research: UFOs and Related Subjects: An Annotated Bibliography. In preparing this work, the senior bibliographer, Miss Lynn E. Catoe, actually read thousands of UFO articles, books, and publications. In her preface to this 400-page book she states:
    A large part of the available UFO literature is closely linked with mysticism and the metaphysical. It deals with subjects like mental telepathy, automatic writing, and invisible entities, as well as phenomena like poltergeist manifestations and possession. … Many of the UFO reports now being published in the popular press recount alleged incidents that are strikingly similar to demoniac possession and psychic phenomena which has long been known to theologians and parapsychologists."
    pp. 44, 45.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Friday, January 10, 2014  

  • As usual Bruce, you take a simple idea and make it complex or abstruse.

    My posting deals with one book, The Book of Job: A Biography, which you have not read, and my liking for UFOs.

    Your clutter misses the point, and takes readers to a place that is intellectually obscure.

    Bringing John Keel into the mix confuses further.

    My point is simple and it's my point only: that I'll take a UFO over God anytime.

    That's it, and only it.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, January 10, 2014  

  • Its not complex or abstruse. This is your strategy for a response?

    Both God and UFOs are unknowns.

    Therefore choosing unknown A over unknown B is simply based on your belief system of taking the Bible literally.
    This post appears to be more of an expression of personal internal conflict than a analysis of either belief system.
    It has very little to do with UFO's. It has a lot to due with your Catholicism.
    Anyone can see this apparently except you.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Friday, January 10, 2014  

  • Yes, it's a personal view in a personal blog.

    The posting wasn't meant to be an exegesis about God or an analysis of UFO sightings.

    Geez, you don't get that?

    Who told you I thought it was a theoretical look at Theodicy and the UFO phenomenon?

    You keep trying to impose on me and this blog your view of blogging and when I don't conform you get testy, which makes me testy.

    I've told you, up front, what my point was. If you don't get it,
    Move on...


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, January 10, 2014  

  • RR- Perhaps you see what you want to see, let me help:

    "Varying degrees for sure"

    Torment is torment in the end. You can bog it down in semantics all you like. When lives have been utterly destroyed, on both counts, I doubt that people involved are bothering to measure the various degrees of torment.

    I think you're tormented, by virtue alone of a now deleted post where you were going to close down this blog in utter frustration.

    Now see "Skeptical bastards!" and "The Sodom and Gomorra of Ufology".

    You fail to see that the discussion and the comments that comes from it (especially the ones that aggravate you so) - are *part* of the subject and it's structure. I'll bet like most in this field, or even commentating on it - that such aggravations keep you aware, occupy more of your mind's time than you'll ever admit, and in general you know you'd be better off without the subject.

    But you're not walking away from all this aggravation are you? It's got you hooked - and no amount of aggravating conversation, or wasted time trying to make a point is going to drive you from it.

    This discussion is being held in the modern age - not the biblical one. Job analogy, varying degrees or not - torment abounds in the study.

    But, you believe I'm mentally ill anyway, so all this is probably for naught.


    By Blogger JR, at Friday, January 10, 2014  

  • Mentally ill, Jeff, you? I don't think so.

    Torment is defined by The Book of Job as outlined in the Larrimore book cited.

    I am aggrieved surely about the UFO community, but hardly tormented.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, January 10, 2014  

  • I suppose we all have to redefine torment as we see fit.


    ps-you've stated many times now that visitation experiencers in your opinion are suffering from mental ailments stemming from repressed sexual trauma. Of course this kind of stance is usually taken from the "research" of Hopkins, Jacobs, and other surface level dopes of the field. I should realize it will take decades to repair their effect on the subject.

    By Blogger JR, at Friday, January 10, 2014  

  • Even though Hopkins and Jacobs besmirched the abduction phenomenon by using hypnosis, I think there is ample circumstantial evidence for a repressed sexual etiology, but that takes us far off the topic here.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, January 10, 2014  

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