UFO Conjecture(s)

Monday, June 02, 2014

Are UFOs a mystical experience or a technological experience?

Which of the two experiences in my title above is more prominent in the UFO panoply or history?

It seems that quantum mechanics is the underlying “process” or modus operandi – the supportive mechanism -- operating within or without events that have been, mostly in the past, considered mystical – the appearances of a woman thought to be Mary the mother of Jesus (at Lourdes and Fatima, for instance) – and UFO sightings, up to the modern era.

In the middle 1890s and certainly after 1945, UFOs have been considered with a technological patina,

(The Roswell incident cemented such a view, with the alleged finding of “metal debris” or a craft, and bodies from supposed extraterrestrials who piloted the downs flying disk mentioned in a military press release.)

But it seems that there is an evanescent overlay to UFOs seen in the sky and even in those on-the-ground contacts with weird entities.

In ancient sightings, the reports were appended to religious or mythical tales.

In modern times, UFO accounts have been encrusted with a technological veneer.

This latter change can be attributed to the loss of religious milieux in society.

But whether or not UFOs, over the years or in our time, are mystical or technological matters not.

The procedure by which they arrive or are seen – experienced – seems to follow the mechanics of quantum, and a few postings here recently, noted by Joel Crook, from the science community seem to confirm a quantum basis for UFO sightings or events.

This would appear to be basis for study by UFO buffs, setting aside the extraterrestrial component, although the ETH could also benefit from a quantum underbelly.



  • There is a technological basis for UFOs (or field propulsion flying machines). It is not strictly quantum mechanical, but utilizes the much broader classification of "non-local physics".

    The Universe has two types of physics behaviors: "local" and "non-local". The first is the same thing as Newtonian physics. It is taught in the schools, is readily intuitive, and is widely applied in science and engineering. The second is not taught, even at the college level, except in the form of quantum mechanics, which has a limited (but still important) scope. It is weird, bizarre, not intuitive, non-Newtonian, and almost unknown to scientists and engineers. The technology to implement it has been around for over 150 years, but the science behind it is still not understood. UFOs have at least mastered the technological aspect.

    By Blogger Brian F, at Monday, June 02, 2014  

  • Rich,

    The answer to your question is: Yes.

    Your question assumes the answer is either/or. The answer may very well be both/and.

    And I think BrianF. is on the right track.

    By Blogger Larry, at Tuesday, June 03, 2014  

  • @Brian F:

    And your "proof" of these facts is what?

    As for QM being around for 150 years... isn't that a bit of an exaggeration? My recollection is that the maths for QM were "discovered" by Schrodinger in the mid 1920s see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger_equation

    I think you'd be surprised at what science understands about QM and how that knowledge has made modern technology [especially electronics and materials science] work as well as it does.

    On the other hand I'm not sure you understand what "non-local" means and what its limitations are. Non-local effects are limited to "entangled particles". So I can transfer information from one place instantaneously to another regardless of the distance but first I have to get the particle to that distant location.

    One of the quirks of the current knowledge of QM and relativity is that were you able to travel at the speed of light you not only could travel to another star system but you could also travel to any time or any universe. So tell me why would ETs want to come here when they'd have the whole multi-verse?

    There are at least 19 different interpretations of QM, each with its strengths and weaknesses and yet none of them actually describe the world we live in... they describe the world our everyday world is build upon.

    Since we don't know what UFOs / UAPs actually are it is a bit premature to conclude much of anything whether they are mystical or technological. What if they are both? A Rabbi in the 1980s proposed that the Jewish mystical book Sefer Yetzirah [the Book of Creation] actually describes a five dimensional space-time and the 231 "gates" to reality based upon the permutations of the names of God. [Some of the QM theories describe out universe as having more that 4 dimensions... some up to 11]

    J.B.S Haldane a UK biologist in the last century was quoted as saying: "My own suspicion is that the universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose." Which is to say not only do we live in a weird universe it is actually weirder than we are actually equipped to perceive.

    I think the actual explanation of UFOs and UAPs will be something along the lines of "other universes have other laws... which not only allow the impossible to occur but require it to happen." With a bit of expansive thinking one might conclude that our small little island of reality is an oasis along a well traveled "silk road" through the multi-verse. Many things come and go and mostly we are none the wiser. We tell our tales of horror and fantasy of lights in the sky and elves under the bed... none the wiser that each are, in their place, a fact, a truth, a reality.

    Imagine: what if all of the weird stories you've ever heard are actually true, somewhere.

    By Blogger Joel Crook, at Tuesday, June 03, 2014  

  • UAP is mystical in the sense that it provokes more questions than answers and calls into question just how limited our natural senses are in terms of perception. We must go back to square one.
    . I suspect they have no task as we define a task, and that they are inexact copies of what we anticipate them to be and are partially rooted here in the psyche in a feedback loop. They are truly “ghost ships” that exist in a parallel reality that have our own fingerprints all over them.
    Arthur C Clarke said it was a truly frightening prospect that we might be alone in the universe, and an equally frightening one that we are not. We want to humanise these compelling mirages, make them conform to what we understand in our own very limited way.
    This to me reflects our attitude toward the transience of life, the mirage of life and our attempts to create causal narratives of origins and destinations for our existence by way of a hypothesis of another Anyone who cannot recognise this entanglement is hopelessly lost and prone to what UAP projects which is simply suggestion. Its only discernable purpose is what we make of it, not the other way around.
    Ninety nine percent of this is philosophic, not technological. The vast majority have no insight as to what compels us to make square pegs out of round holes.
    We look around us and we can easily observe the tasks other creatures have as well as knowing as best we can that our minds are unlike other living creatures and so, beyond survival from time immemorial we ask what is our task, or more to the point, what task has been assigned us? We did not create ourselves. The scope of UAP reflects our own situation and that is so obvious as to be ridiculous and we have been “set up” to be caught in our own traps simply because we have no companions by way of another species to compare ourselves with.
    The concept that UAP represents a machine is about as trite as it gets. The mystical accepts the incommensurable of the aggregate sum while similarities abound in composites.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Tuesday, June 03, 2014  

  • Rich, I think, like Joel suggested, that UFOs can be both mystical and technological. I also appreciate what Bruce wrote.

    I believe UFOs as mystical and/or technological aren't mutually exclusive and I don't think we should force ourselves into fitting them neatly into boxes of identifications. Close Encounters can confound us and there appears to be a manipulation at the root of the activity.

    Historically, just a couple of examples --Fatima's effects on the prime witnesses - the Portuguese children - were similar to what happened a few decades earlier to Joseph Smith, creating a new off-shoot (cult?) of Christianity - The Church of Latterday Saints...aka Mormonism. There were the visions only the prime witnesses saw, digging of dirt with their hands (what the heck is that about anyway?) and bedroom visitations from Moroni aka Nephi(nephilim?) and the BVM for the RC Church. Smith and Sister Lucia, who became a nun, were reported to have experienced visitations through their lives. And, of course, the new religious information and cryptic messages from Moroni and the BVM, respectively, starting a new religious tradition and refining an older one.

    Of course this is disturbing for anyone of faith because there is that question how much is manipulation from a source (or sources) that aren't sacred, but intrusive. And the origins can't help but seem ufo-ish because of what other witnesses saw (with Smith - descending/ascending bright orb lights) and at Fatima (initial descriptions of a metallic disc, not the "sun").

    Many CE witnesses, as well as witnesses where the craft or lights are in fairly close proximity to people sense a personal, experiential communication from UFOs. An example from many --the Hudson Valley NY sightings/I-91 CT sightings of the mostly boomerang/flying triangles had some witnesses noting a disconcerting feeling that the craft were watching and interacting with them. [Not just some of the craft responding with flashing lights to people sending sos signals] These people felt emotions ranging from fear to elation. Some reported "abductions" or household intruders and poltergeist activity after these close ufo sightings. All of that can be mystical and technological. It's how we perceive and understand (or don't understand) the outre activity.

    That feeling can be magnified into the Jenny Randles coined term "oz effect" where there's no sound of regular life nor feeling of wind anymore for at least a short period of time. It's as if the intelligence behind the ufo has selected and compelled (or picked off from the rest of the herd, so to speak) the person or group of persons for a very close encounter. That seems to be both mystical and technological. And, this may be ET or earth-Crypto (djinn, daemonic) in origin. Maybe, at best, all we can do is wonder and continue to diligently report the high strangeness of UFOs.

    ~ Susan

    By Blogger brownie, at Wednesday, June 04, 2014  

  • Susan:

    The co-mingling of mystical and technological elements in the UFO saga is (partially) explained by quantum theory, which seems to be a mainstay of Bruce Duensing's position lately.

    The problem, for me, and others, is why UFO sightings and contacts are so phantasmagorical.

    That is, why all the goofiness?

    Is the source psychotic?

    Is The Trickster God?

    There is a disturbing underlying strain of nuttiness in the human condition.

    UFOs are just one phenomenon or element of that nuttiness.

    Ufology would have been wise to attack UFOs from a broader perspective, it seems to me.

    Brit David Clarke is in that mode and maybe Bruce too, if he could just be less abstruse.

    You seem to understand this.

    Unfortunately, UFO buffs are too wrapped up in the Sci-Fy aspect of the UFO phenomenon.

    They've missed the forest for the trees.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, June 04, 2014  

  • I agree that a broader more nuanced approach at at arm's length is called for. The only fallible and pragmatic tool we have is the weighing of probabilities in relation to extraterrestrial visitation and that has to be compared to what we do know about our own nature in relation to the nature of the universe we inhabit, both of which pose more questions than answers.
    I think we have to be wary of our own expectations rather than by led by the nose by what we desire.
    I think we have to examine where these desires come from as I said in my last comment.
    It is reasonable to apply QM to this phenomenon. Although there is no unified QM theory, we know enough basics of it's behavior to compare them to what is observed in UAP phenomenon and the matches are striking.
    It is more probable these effects are naturally occurring and yet they could be more of an effect by "something else", a vehicle of some sort and not necessarily one that is a solid. The odds of ET visitation are staggeringly low even if it were probable. The race is on to disprove the speed of light is an upper limit as many scientists increasingly suspect this is possible.
    However looking at the tasking or purpose of the UAP phenomenon we find none and in many ways it resembles classical "ghost phenomenon".
    All of this suggests that there is a common thread between UAP and other similar anomalies.
    The only thing that prevents a analysis of this by others is their own self created prejudice
    by way of desire.
    Even if an ET landed, it is doubtful Mr Spaceman has all the answers. By the fact that our theoretical ET went from point A to B would suggest they would have several questions in mind as well.
    That being said, what we are left with is essentially the stop gap of philosophy in a Heinz 57 variety.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Wednesday, June 04, 2014  

  • This question is somewhat in keeping with Jacques Vallee's control theory, although I think he would approach the "mystical" label very cautiously.

    By Blogger Electric Heathen, at Thursday, June 12, 2014  

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