UFO Conjecture(s)

Sunday, June 29, 2014

Bird Watching and Ufology

 UFOs as a hobby or life-engagement is a fringe activity; most of us know that.

It is an embarrassment to tell persons who are not UFO-keen that one is involved with the topic.

As an adult, in old age, like CDA and a few others who visit here, it is sad, pathetic actually, that I’m still enthralled by UFOs.

But I think I put UFOs into perspective, family members and friends see my attention to UFOs as inordinate.

What brings me to write about this is the passion with which Tony Bragalia’s ongoing Roswell writings, especially about the so-called memory metal found at the supposed 1947 crash site, evoke.

Mr. Bragalia is vilified by skeptics and adored by Rowell/ET believers.

Common sense and decency often leave the table when Roswell enters this blog or a discussion elsewhere.

Roswell is that side of the UFO coin that comes up too often for most ufologistic followers. It irks them, even though UFOs, generally, are just as frivolous for skeptics, such as Zoam Chomsky.

Passionate bird-watchers get just enlivened when one of their own spots a speckled-beak woodpecker, some saying the spotting is bogus or erroneous.

Telling one’s friends that one is a bird-watcher raises eyebrows just as UFOs do when they are mentioned in polite conversation,

And it’s not just the kook-factor that causes this. It’s that the world is fraught with real issues and real problems, practical and otherwise. And spending time and life about UFOs is seen as almost pyschopathic by wholesome members of human society.

UFOs, like bird-watching, or stamp collecting or growing petunias, is a niche topic, and should be treated gingerly by the rational folks among us.

That it raises such ire and vitriol bespeaks a mind-set that isn’t quite sane.

UFOs are only a quirky side-bar to life and Roswell is only one facet of the whole UFO malarkey.

So, let’s take it easy, fellow UFO followers.



  • I think the Roswell debate is so heated because it is potentially dispositive of the more general UFO question. Basically, we have a bunch of people who collectively say that they witnessed certain facts which, if true, would inevitably lead to the conclusion that a physically real craft and occupants of unconventional origin was found in the New Mexico desert in 1947. If that body of testimony is not dismissed, the skeptic/debunker position disappears like spit on a hot stove.

    The debate is a "must-win" for the skeptic/debunker position; it HAS to be not true.

    By Blogger Larry, at Sunday, June 29, 2014  

  • But Larry...

    In the great scheme of things, Roswell and UFOs are small potatoes, even for those who see a possible alien visitation as a transcendent moment for the human species.

    It doesn't impact us practically or personally, except as a belief system, like religion.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, June 29, 2014  

  • Rich is right: Roswell is very interesting, but does not impact on everyday life.

    The World Cup, having a good time in Dallas on a friday and saturday night, making sure the apartment rent gets paid, hanging out with friends etc - these impact massively more than UFOs ever do, and that's how it should be.

    Of course, there will always be borderline (or totally crossed the line) obsessives in Ufology, but those people cannot be changed - they are like stamp collectors, people who make model aircraft, and sci-fi geeks who dress up as Mr spock at stupid events etc and who know every word of every episode.

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Sunday, June 29, 2014  

  • Wait a minute...

    I collect stamps, and have since I was ten, about the time I (and CDA) took an interest in UFOs.

    (I think I need help of some kind.)


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, June 29, 2014  

  • Oh lord... lol

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Sunday, June 29, 2014  

  • Yah, it's rather sad.....but I did watch Brazil snooker Chile, so there's that..


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, June 29, 2014  

  • Cool! It's best that we don't discuss England's appalling efforts :(

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Sunday, June 29, 2014  

  • Yep....I hear ya buddy.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, June 29, 2014  

  • I collect stamps too, but probably not the same ones as RR.

    Also, there are a few, very few, stamps depicting UFOs. Can anyone name the date/country of origin of them? Yes the Adamski UFO is on one.

    There are at most about a dozen, but I don't know the true number.

    By Blogger cda, at Sunday, June 29, 2014  

  • I have, CDA, the UFO stamps, from many countries.

    I'll see if I can locate them via the Mystic Stamp Company which is still sending me approvals, nice ones too but expensive.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, June 29, 2014  

  • I would agree that anything connected to Roswell throws common sense out the window when it comes baiting the readership with ripe nonsense. The reaction is hardly surprising and so we are left with what?
    I just came from outside having run the garden railway and soon it's off to see the horses. In between comments on AJB's last post, I shampooed the carpet in the family room and it was rewarding to see some results unlike some facets of Ufology.
    To me, its all a mix of some of this and some of that.I don't lose any sleep over much especially what is essentially gab by hobbyists. Things can get debatable in other hobbies.. trust me. Restoring versus original patina, this horse feed over that, made in the U.S versus China, Ford versus Chevy..it's all part of life's game. If we all agreed it would be boring. I see nothing different here than in other hobbies. Not a big deal.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Sunday, June 29, 2014  

  • The debate is a "must-win" for the skeptic/debunker position; it HAS to be not true.

    Sorry, Larry, but you couldn't be more mistaken in your assessment. Shifting the burden of proof to skeptics and appealing to the number of people making wild claims are old Internet ufoolergists' tricks. Roswell ET exist only in the shattered imaginings of hardcore Believers in the flying-saucer myth--it's a sad delusion.

    Skeptics don't have to prove the Roswell myth in any of its iterations is not true, we know it's not true, the world knows it's not true because there are no indisputable Roswell ET facts. As with every other extraordinary claim about the world, it remains not true until proven otherwise. Believers of any sort of myth can believe anything they like, but in the world only veracious evidence counts.

    And it doesn't matter how many people claim they saw extraordinary ET things decades before. Only after being coaxed by the leading questions of self-styled Roswell "investigators," who are Believers chasing the Holy Grail of their new-age flying-saucer religion or are writers out to cash in on a popular craze, did these memories spring forth. Interview enough people on any fringe topic, and through suggestion and a series of confirmation bias traps, one will find people who will echo the subject's every detail, inventing new memories. These aren't evidence.

    In 1896,
    Being conditioned by a series of newspaper hoaxes concerning the imminent arrival of the fantastic new Airship, entirely predisposed crowds of people saw its lights, heard its motors and the voices of its crew. Then newspapers reported on these completely imaginary sightings of the mysterious Airship and on imaginary crashes in remote locations. Soon, crowds were seeing Airships in every region where newspapers reported "Airship" stories. But there never were any Airships.

    That's how the Airship delusion--direct predecessor of Roswell--began, and the psychosocial mechanics in play (Believing is Seeing) also describe how the Roswell ET delusion was manufactured decades after the insignificant and long-forgotten event. So you see how Roswell ET Believers and phony flying-saucer "scientists" whose motivation is selling trashy books and whose chief talent is creating self-serving flying-saucer tales, manufactured the Roswell ET delusion after the fact. It was in very much this same way that Ray Palmer invented flying saucers--a hoax based on decades-old Airship hoaxes--and how nearly every other "UFO" legend to date grows to proportions far beyond its sketchy report.

    And Larry, every Skeptic I know would love to learn that ETI of some kind exists in our Galaxy, and not only do they exist but they have traveled to Earth in some impossible way and are here already. Unfortunately, they crashed landed in the New Mexico desert and our government has kept it secret for over sixty years. See, the problem is not the Skeptics, it's the utter implausibilty of that silly scenario. Evidence, Larry, Evidence!

    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Sunday, June 29, 2014  

  • I just find UFOs and Roswell fun and interesting. I also enjoy niche hobbies and topics such as bird watching and growing rare and strange plants. However I also love more popular things too- although maybe I subconsciously just use them to cover up my psychopathic UFO obsession.- that's a joke.

    The topic of both Roswell and UFOs should be treated seriously but with fun and great interest. Nobody should be fighting over these topics. I think Tony Bragalia does a good job presenting what he finds. Never once has anything he found proven aliens exist or that memory metal has anything to do with Roswell- simply he just shows strange connections and coincidences that could lead one to believe there is something of interest there. I'm not a "believer" but I'm open minded to the idea. I won't throw out damning evidence one way or the other. Yet neither side believer or skeptic has shown me anything to sway my belief or lack thereof.

    This is an interesting subject to all of us otherwise we wouldn't be here. I say let's keep it fun and interesting.

    PS- good post Rich!

    By Blogger Daniel Hurd, at Monday, June 30, 2014  

  • Rich's post is a little disingenuous. He knows he's gonna get a big response from Roswell posts, since it always gets heated responses from the usual suspects, believers and skeptics alike.

    So given the precedents here, why act so surprised?

    If the whole Roswell circus is much ado about nothing, then just stop posting about Roswell. Simple. Glad to see more posts about Socorro New Mexico, because I do think it remains an interesting case.

    By Blogger Lawrence, at Monday, June 30, 2014  

  • RR:

    Talking about philately, what about a new stamp featuring Roswell? It ought to have been issued in 1997, the 50th anniversary. Why wasn't it?

    OK, I agree this has zilch to do with bird watching (which has another meaning to the ornithological one anyway).

    By Blogger cda, at Monday, June 30, 2014  

  • Rich,

    You are being too pesimistic when comparing UFO with mere hobbies.

    Most probably, time will come when some scientist will explain that their purely scientific advancements or discoveries were sparked or inspired by UFO cases, UFO sightings or UFO related statistics.

    By Blogger Don Maor, at Monday, June 30, 2014  

  • @zoamchomsky

    That'd also be about the right time you could see the expansion of the Theosophical movement, and the latter Ayran Space Brothers stuff...

    By Blogger Clayton Robertson, at Monday, June 30, 2014  

  • > The debate is a "must-win" for the skeptic/debunker position; it HAS to be not true.

    Larry, that is such a tiresome and dishonest tactic.

    By your reasoning, there can never ever be an honest criticism of the Roswell case, only motivated ones. By that tactic, you have removed Roswell to an alternate reality where facts and logic are irrelevant, only belief determines reality.

    Larry, UFO proponents can doubt Roswell too. Jerome Clark:

    "I would have thought that I had made myself clear to the point of boring repetition that I am a Roswell agnostic. That would, in fact, make me a skeptic in the classical, as opposed to polemical, sense. I have outlined in various postings here why I find the ET interpretation hard to swallow.

    "I don't know what happened at Roswell. I doubt that either a spacecraft or a Mogul balloon was responsible."


    By Blogger Terry the Censor, at Tuesday, July 01, 2014  

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