UFO Conjecture(s)

Sunday, June 15, 2014

The Failure of the ETH (The Extraterrestrial Hypothesis

Certain UFO devotees, especially the Roswell alien-crash believers, think that Roswell will come to prove that we have been visited by entities from outside our Earth, extraterrestrials.

And those extraterrestrials have provided by their sheer unfortunate appearance in 1947 Roswell and at other times the possibility of advanced knowledge or beneficent morality and thought.

But this is a false hope, and a delusional hope also.

Since, it would seem that if beings from elsewhere besides Earth, who have been monitoring human activity here for millennia or even just from 1947 have actually observed what has transpired on this planet, with humans and other living creatures, they have acted with benign indifference.

When or if UFO creatures, if there were any, saw what has happened or is happening to multitudes of living sentient beings – Earth’s humanity – they have not intervened or acted in any way that would indicate an ethical or moral basis for life.

The non-intercession of UFOs in the plethora of inhuman acts on a scale that any monitoring culture would be blatantly exposed to goes to the heart of what UFOs are or are not.

I don not need to recount human barbarisms, from the past or in modern times, to show that an observant or monitoring presence, whether God or extraterrestrial beings are without compassion or empathy, even scientific empathy.

Those who see the UFO presence containing possible saviors of a kind for humanity’s evils or ills are in a state of irrational denial.

In the movie The Thing (From Another World) the pilot from the crashed flying saucer only operates in the context of its own survival, having no idea of what is good or evil that underlies human behavior.
That UFOs have never intervened in any human catastrophe, man-created or nature-created, indicates that UFOs are either an emotionally inert phenomenon or, if containing a non-Earthian sentience has no concept of what the sine qua non of human existence is.

That is, after millennia of data collecting, or simply passive observation, UFO beings, if there were such entities, are without any redeeming value(s) that would help humankind in time of crises.

As the slaughter of human beings and the multitude of genocidal acts have occurred, no UFO or otherworldly craft has interacted or interceded in any way whatsoever.

This means that either extraterrestrials are without emotion or ethical/moral standards or UFOs are merely a benign, non-thinking phenomenon.

And Roswell hopefuls, thinking to overlay that 1947 incident with a possibility of a culture or civilization that came here, to Earth, to help humanity, is as delusional as that segment of society still hoping for Christ’s Second-Coming.

The ETH has the patina of religion, but without the sacred accretions, which make religion so amenable to the great unwashed mass.



  • Odd, I can't think of a single "Roswell hopeful" that is hoping ETs came to Earth to help us or sees Roswell as a religious event. A Second Coming this is not.

    And I can think of any number of reasons why ETs would not intervene in our affairs, just as most humans prefer not to get involved in the suffering or misfortune of other humans and beasts. Indifference is only one of a large number of possible reasons. How many of us pass the beggar in the street, then think of all the reasons you have done so.

    By Blogger David Rudiak, at Monday, June 16, 2014  

  • Yes the Roswell 'hopefuls', as you call them, are indeed delusional.

    As to whether the UFO denizens (i.e. ETs) are interested enough in our barbarous activities to actively interfere with them, maybe the ETs think they can do this by spiritual means or, alternatively, they believe it is God who should intervene.

    You may have touched on a religious topic without intending to.

    By the way, have ETs finally ceased abducting us, and if so, what did they achieve in these vile actions upon our earthfolk?

    By Blogger cda, at Monday, June 16, 2014  

  • David:

    In my UFO circles, including one of your Roswell Team-mates, there is the implicit feeling that UFOs harbor beings that will, possibly, bring transcendent edifications to himanity.

    And the alleged Roswell entities were the vanguard.

    The Camus quote I've altered, at the top of my posting, ends with the word "world" supporting your view about human indifference.

    But, within the ETH, lies the subliminal hope that UFOs are "manned" by benevolent entities that are here to help us, and your team-mate mistakenly uses the word 'wizened' as the visage on the face of the Roswell-slide entity, bolstering his view that ETs are missionaries come to help us.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, June 16, 2014  

  • I am not aware of any Roswell researcher who claims to definitively know the visitors' intentions. But they offer speculation, and this is mine:

    Those visiting earth are likely a hyper-scientific culture, and science is value-neutral.

    As such, they are dispassionate observers, not influenced or affected by personal or emotional involvement.

    RR is posing his questions from a human-centric, assumptive perspective.


    By Blogger Anthony Bragalia, at Monday, June 16, 2014  

  • ETH represents a stereotypical and predictable architecture just as language, social rules, moralities are rooted in the opposite represented by anti-structure, chaos, unpredictability and uncertainty.
    One could not exist without the other and both are super-impositions of their opposite.
    ETH is a form of the subject being socially domesticated which has nothing to do with it's unknown origin and nature.
    The UFO as an acronym is like the term "coincidence" a proverbial post it note that says in effect it's meaning is yet to be determined. It's a product of language not spacemen. Descriptors are not the object being described and yet we have those who would say they are as a form of "anything is better than nothing" when it comes to holding an opinion that provides a basis of consideration. But is it?
    To me the whole of the evidence says otherwise as the search for the stereotypical in this particularly Roswell as an example
    has been unsuccessful for over one half of a century. Adherents, over time are becoming a flat earth society.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Monday, June 16, 2014  

  • Didn't Adamski once tell us he knew the visitors' intentions? Peace and harmony on earth, etc.

    And if he did, surely the Roswell researchers, all better educated and far more knowledgeable than was poor Adamski, can do so?

    By Blogger cda, at Monday, June 16, 2014  

  • Rich

    i have to say though that you yourself have stated the new slides evidence and Roswell itself does leave open a crack for the ETH.

    You seem to be saying now thats not the case although you have stated the above more than once.

    By Blogger Al12, at Monday, June 16, 2014  

  • AI12:

    I try not to close the door on anything.

    Nothing is impossible, so the door is open a crack for an ET explanation re: Roswell, but the "proof" will be questioned.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, June 16, 2014  

  • Rich

    Thats true with this impending evidence mayby

    As we do not really know what the evidence shows even if its authenticity is sound.

    The kind of proof needed to open that crack to prove the ETH i doubt we,ll find, thats not to say its not out there though.

    But at least like you say this revelation does perhaps leave the door open to that conjecture.

    By Blogger Al12, at Monday, June 16, 2014  

  • I fully expect a prolonged debate over questionable proof as it is a tradition among hard core devotees to pulverize every microscopic detail in a hail of bullets directed at their own feet. Hit it once and it says ouch. Hit is twice and it says not so bad. The third time nothing is felt.
    It become a ritualized form of intellectual self flagellation.
    So immersed and proficient in all the minutia, it would be difficult for adherents to cease and desist as this would be comparable to having to learn a new language and as the saying goes, you cannot teach an old dog new tricks.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Monday, June 16, 2014  

  • Tony wrote: "Those visiting earth are likely a hyper-scientific culture, and science is value-neutral.
    As such, they are dispassionate observers, not influenced or affected by personal or emotional involvement."

    Hello Tony,

    Welcome in my top10 ufologists claims.

    Hahahaha, it is really funny to read it by a so dispassionate, not influenced or affected by personal or emotional involvement, like you, Tony!

    In few times, we will be drived to believe or it will be presented by the DreamTeam and Roswell's mythtelers like you or Don Schmitt, you are true agnostic, dispassionate and without personal involment!

    De qui se moque t-on, we say in French!



    By Blogger Gilles Fernandez, at Monday, June 16, 2014  

  • Gilles, apparently is looking for scientific inquirey that is "true agnostic, dispassionate and without personal involvement." Gilles, let me clue you in: There is no such thing. All researchers come to "inquiry" with passion and personal involvement, so the dream team people are hardly the exception. Indeed, the process of inquiry depends heavily on passion and involvement among other things. What science does count on, however, is replication of results (findings) by other scientists...hoping that any bias by one group will be scrubbed out by other groups. If UFO "researchers" ever produce any real "findings" the "proof" for those results will depend upon replication by non-ufo researchers.

    By Blogger Dominick, at Monday, June 16, 2014  

  • Any assumption about an alien race is just that- an assumption. The problem is that all of us skeptics and believers approach the subject of aliens from the only perspective we have, the human perspective. We have a tendency to humanize everything- even animals and insects. At least animals and insects evolved on this planet.
    It's extremely difficult to guess at what a highly advanced alien races' intentions would be. For all we know that Roswell crash was an escape pod from a ship light years away and over hundreds possibly thousands of years it finally by chance crashed in New Mexico in 1947. These beings may have been preserved by the vacuum of space. It's really difficult to say. The speculation can run wild.

    If I had to speculate I would agree with Tony Bragalia. These are highly scientific beings that place extremely high value on discovery and knowledge and care not about intervening on what we consider crisis or tragedy. Or the possibility that these creatures crashed here intentionally. Maybe to gauge our reaction.
    Anyway you cut it, it's purely speculation.

    By Blogger Daniel Hurd, at Monday, June 16, 2014  

  • There is another possibility: all the "aliens" we see are nothing but worker-drones, created to perform specific tasks, and therefore they have no concept of benevolence etc.

    The odd actions of the genuinely weird MIB would suggest that, as does the Grays warnings about environmental collapse. It may just be a programmed "meme" of sorts, one that the Grays have no understanding of why they spread it.

    Maybe we've never seen the real intelligence behind the drones/MIB.

    The motives of the real intelligence might be so appropriately alien that we barely have the ability to comprehend them.

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Monday, June 16, 2014  

  • But wouldn't worker-drones or robots of some kind be sending back to their home planet or source, data and/or information showing what was going on here.....for a long time?

    And their "masters" still remain indifferent?

    It's not a good scenario.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, June 16, 2014  

  • Well, maybe it's not indifference. Maybe there is analysis going on as a result of feedback. But, maybe the program is a very long-running one. After all, the modern era of Ufology is less than 70 years old. Perhaps actions wont be taken (good, bad or whatever) until we have screwed things up even more than now. Or, maybe they're like little kids watching ants in the yard: they are fascinated by them and when they get bored they stamp on them and go and do something else to pass the time.

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Monday, June 16, 2014  

  • The other addition to my possibility is that the original intelligence behind the drones is now extinct.

    So, the dutiful drones go about their same old charade-like business, popping up here and there, warning of ecological disaster.

    And having no real concept of their existence, they don't see any reason why it should matter that the now-extinct intelligence isn't answering (or acting on) the data they send back.

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Monday, June 16, 2014  

  • I like your conjectures Nick; they intrigue.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, June 16, 2014  

  • Great scenarios and ideas Nick. I like the idea that they are drones. After all, we humans have advanced into the realm of UAVs- I would imagine a super intelligence alien race would probably do something similar. Again though we are looking at everything through an human perspective.
    Like Nick said- maybe their real intentions are so "alien" we couldn't even comprehend them.

    By Blogger Daniel Hurd, at Monday, June 16, 2014  

  • Yes to Nick's ideas here!! Somewhat similar thoughts coming from Nigel Kerner's Song of the Greys (though a plodding read). *Roboids:Greys* They continue the same programmed actions [from silly soil samples to human abductions] begun aeons ago by prime beings (a quasi-gnostic idea) long since gone.

    ~ Susan

    By Blogger brownie, at Monday, June 16, 2014  

  • We cannot know the motivations of the visiting extraterrestrials. We can speculate that if they are here, they are benevolent enough to not to interfere openly and massively and cause havoc on our economy, politics, religions, etc. But, their benevolence can stop rightly there. They probably won't waste time helping us, in the same way in which our human zoologists do not interfere with animals clashing horns or predators chasing their preys.

    By Blogger Don Maor, at Monday, June 16, 2014  

  • Speaking about motivations. We are not even able to know the motivations of our fellow humans.

    Take the example of the so called debunkers. What motivates these freaks? Why they spend a lot of their time in a topic that for them has not value? Are they bored? Are they cruel people who like to hurt the feelings of ufologists and ufoers? Are they scared of finding a species that most probably has a higher IQ than humans? Do they feel they are the saviors of a humanity contaminated by the oscurantism of the UFO beliefs? Are they just plainly stupid for not catching the anomalistic nature of the UFO phenomenon? Are they scientific wannabes?

    I suspect the truth maybe one or some of these explanations, but they won't tell us.

    By Blogger Don Maor, at Monday, June 16, 2014  

  • Don Maor,
    I too have wondered about the hard line debunkers and skeptics. I often wonder what their motivation is too. It almost seems like they enjoy trying to stamp out any possible theory involving ET.
    It would be the equivalent of me (I'm somewhat Atheist) going to a religious forum and bashing people for how they believe in some god where there is zero proof. What would I get out of it? Nothing. At least with the religious angle I could argue that it hinders scientific progress. I'm not sure such an argument could be made in such a niche topic like UFOs.

    Great post though Don, why would anyone who doesn't believe in the possibility of the ETH spend so much time toiling over the subject?

    By Blogger Daniel Hurd, at Monday, June 16, 2014  

  • My biggest problem with the ETH is the apparent lack of alien starships in the solar system, and the failure of the ETH proponents to present an argument that is scientifically 'hard'.

    That being said, I believe there could be some loopholes worth checking out. I've been quietly working on a angle that might be worth sharing. Fits in with Bigelow's research too.

    @RRRGroup if I ever get it written up, would you like to take a look at it?

    I also think that the Keel/Redfern Trojan Horse concept should be kept in mind...

    By Blogger Clayton Robertson, at Tuesday, June 17, 2014  

  • Clayton:

    Sure.....keep us in mind when you work up your thesis.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Tuesday, June 17, 2014  

  • Entering into our planets atmosphere without a lengthy process of negotiations from a distance would be absolutely irresponsible. That would be extremely difficult to negotiate under a cloud of suspicion. This future encounter would likely not happen at once rather a series of baby steps would have to be undertaken. A neutral spot would have to be chosen. Then there would be negotiations on what constituted communication in terms of what could and could not be discussed on their part. Interference, influence would be a concern on ours. Where to land amongst several tribes would be an issue with landinding rights. Access another. Theres more to this sample of issues but what everyone seems to forget, that if intelligence of any sort is involved and the actors want to interact, there would also be a lively debate among their own ranks. What is the aim, what is the downside, what do we gain? Unless you are dealing with a hive of bees, for a serious attempt at this, I would think all this would be more trouble than it’s worth for them. We on the other hand, would never fully trust them. Very easily things could get out of hand. Its more likely they would than not.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Tuesday, June 17, 2014  

  • Also..
    Even before this could begin, biological studies that were cooperative in nature would have to be undertaken to avid an outbreak of disease. An enormous study by them of our species would also have to be undertaken from a distance and evaluations done. That alone is a daunting task that would not happen overnight. Theres no "magic" to this .

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Tuesday, June 17, 2014  

  • Clayton Robertson said...

    , "My biggest problem with the ETH is the apparent lack of alien starships in the solar system, and the failure of the ETH proponents to present an argument that is scientifically 'hard'."

    What do you specifically mean by a hard "argument"?? Do you mean something like a hard 'evidence'? If so, the lack of a hard evidence for a given hypothesis implies the need or effort to find the hard evidence. Not the rejection of the hypothesis.

    The lack of ships in the solar system may be caused by three reasons:

    One: their traveling speed is good enough such as to make irrelevant the location of their parking. They could park their ship in the moon or in a rock located beyond Pluto, and that would not make a difference for them; if their speed is good, they could reach the earth in minutes, anyway.

    The second reason would be that our detecting systems are not prepared yet to detect a randomly located ship in the solar system. We are still discovering planetoids and large rocks in the solar system, so we cannot be pretty sure of what other objects are present or not, in the solar system.

    A third reason (which I don't like to mention but certainly deserves to be mentioned)would be that they don't wish to be detected. In case they are here, the explanation of why we have not detected ships in the solar system is given by tautology.

    By Blogger Don Maor, at Tuesday, June 17, 2014  

  • > UFOs have never intervened in any human catastrophe, man-created or nature-created
    > The ETH has the patina of religion, but without the sacred accretions

    Rich, if we can believe the Aetherians -- a UFO religion -- alien ships sucked up radiation from early nuclear disasters. Of course, no one saw these life-saving actions -- George King channeled the information!

    By Blogger Terry the Censor, at Tuesday, June 17, 2014  

  • > There is another possibility: all the "aliens" we see are nothing but worker-drones

    Nick makes a good point. A few years back I pointed out to a fellow the many significant barriers to organic beings surviving a trip of interstellar distances, not the least of which is the crew's life support system: absolutely nothing mechanical can go wrong, absolutely every novel circumstance of the new environment must be anticipated.

    Rather than face this enormous technical challenge, it would just be easier to send fairly simple robots to perform a small set of tasks.

    > wouldn't worker-drones or robots...be sending back to their home planet or source, data?

    But Rich, the transmissions would take many years to get there and back. The data would have no practical application to our immediate problems, even if the alien masters wanted to intercede.

    > the modern era of Ufology is less than 70 years old.

    And the Zeta Reticuli system is 39 light years away. If one of their ships crashed in New Mexico in 1947, the home base would not have found out until 1986. New instructions on how to respond to the situation will not be arriving here until 2025! (Longer if Twitter goes down.)

    By Blogger Terry the Censor, at Tuesday, June 17, 2014  

  • > Take the example of the so called debunkers. What motivates these freaks?

    Not "so called" freaks, Don?

    If you don't like debunkers, just provide the proof of alien visitation and we'll be done with them! Easy peasy.

    In the meantime, I suggest that the great mass of UFO buffs should not blame their evidentiary inadequacies on the relatively small number of skeptics who mock them. It's sad.

    By Blogger Terry the Censor, at Tuesday, June 17, 2014  

  • > It would be the equivalent of me (I'm somewhat Atheist) going to a religious forum and bashing people

    Daniel, I suggest animus towards religion and UFO belief are not analagous.

    Millions of people today have been oppressed by religious authorities and legislators who want us all to live in a theocracy.

    But no one is being persecuted by a powerful UFO establishment -- except perhaps abductees brainwashed by crusading "investigators."

    I think that leaves us with three motivations for so-called UFO debunkers, which they ususally admit to having anyway:

    1) an early interest in unusual phenomena or space-age science
    2) they can't stand to see other people say things that are "wrong" about unusual phenomena or space-age science
    3) UFOs are entertainment!

    I suggest UFO buffs share these motivations.

    By Blogger Terry the Censor, at Tuesday, June 17, 2014  

  • Terry the censor told me:

    "If you don't like debunkers, just provide the proof of alien visitation and we'll be done with them! Easy peasy",

    Hey, I like them, those guys make laugh so much.

    By Blogger Don Maor, at Wednesday, June 18, 2014  

  • While we're here supposing alien technology, mostly based on technology that earthlings have barely touched on, lets remember the incredible amount of license that we have with supposition like this.
    Mr Redfern, as anyone who has read his books knows, has had ample experience in the field of research and digging into government files.
    Mr Rudiak seems to have the research abilities, facts and figures, historical and modern, that any investigator might envy.
    I'm currently studying Market Evaluation, facts and figures, trends and tendencies, historical and modern.
    Holy **** I could really use Mr Rudiak in my computer room at the moment.
    CDA is a voice of reason that I cannot get tired off and Terry the Censor always gets me thinking about just how serious I am about my beliefs, a crucial part of my growth as a skeptic.
    But enough pandering to notable commenters.
    If we are speculating about the purposes, methods and technologies of alien visitors, what's to stop us going a lot further? They are already secure in their ability to bypass the laws of physics (as we know them) in relation to inter-stellar travel (with worm-holes or teleportation or MUCH faster than light travel or whatever, lets not hold back.
    Let's say that the entire flight crew are incredibly attractive (at least by the standards of the alien culture that they belong to), lets say that the flights are never delayed. Let's say that the free drinks on the 1st-class flights include good, top shelf malts, lets say that the food onboard these craft is always great (not cheap nasty microwaved crap).
    If we're supposing drones and clones and inter-stellar observation, lets go the whole way.

    P.S. Yes, I suffered an airline flight recently and had a few things to get off my chest, but still I find the subject interesting, is that kind of interest half the problem with regard to Ufology?

    All the best folks,

    By Blogger Woody, at Friday, June 20, 2014  

  • LoL Woody,
    Good post. Although I would still argue that anything we speculate about the unknown ( how do they get here, are they attractive, do they have to pay a baggage fee, etc) is all based on total speculation and from our own perspective. Which I think is the point you're trying make. If we are just letting our imaginations run wild with how or why they are here with zero facts to back it up- why not guess their eye color while we are at it?

    I think really it's just interesting conversation. Everyone enjoys speculating. I like pointing out the flaws of hard line debunkers arguments. Like how they couldn't possibly travel all that way just to crash in the desert. Or it's all just too far away, it would take soooo much energy just to travel that far. Etc etc. the point is that by making those arguments you are asserting you already know what they use as means of energy, it's assumption based on what little knowledge we have as humans. It's too hard for us to do- so it must be too hard for them to do.

    Anyhow, I like your post. Who doesn't enjoy jumping into the deep end of speculation? History shows us that great imaginations and speculation can often lead to great discoveries.

    By Blogger Daniel Hurd, at Friday, June 20, 2014  

  • Cheers Daniel, and yes that is along the lines of the point I was trying to make. Plus, I get a great laugh out of the observations and considerations, why not.

    All the best,

    By Blogger Woody, at Friday, June 20, 2014  

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