UFO Conjecture(s)

Tuesday, June 03, 2014

The Great Mistake about Roswell

Kevin Randle – in order to get comments at his blog? – raised the specter of Mogul again, and the Roswell buffs, pro and con, follow along – like sheep, discussing the debris that was allegedly found on the Foster ranch by Mac Brazel.

Real Roswell aficionados know that the so-called Rowell incident has nothing to do with Mac Brazel’s debris find, whatever it was.

The discovery of some kind of debris by Mac Brazel is co-incidental or simultaneous with what happened near Roswell in 1947, and was used by the Army Air Force to deflect media and the public from the real event that was being unraveled and eventually covered-up.

The Air Force continued to use the balloon farce in its 1994/95 and 1997 reports about Roswell, knowing that the red-herring was still palpable to gullible Roswell  investigators.

Co-mingling Mac Brazel’s loony escapade with some grungy debris he found with what really happened near Roswell is a ufological disservice that Kevin Randle and his sycophants, bad or good, continue to vomit, in ways that nauseate those seeking to clarify the Roswell incident no matter what it is, myth or fact.

I can write that the Roswell research team – now minus Mr. Randle -- is closing in on what actually happened near Roswell in 1947.

So long as they eschew the idiotic Mogul scenario, which I assure you, has absolutely nothing to do with the Roswell event, they can bring closure to the Roswell story, and put that event in its proper perspective in UFO lore.

Let’s hope that Mr. Randle gives up the Mogul/Mac Brazel ghost and applies his acumen to a real investigational thrust rather than trying to garner comments for his blog.

RR

28 Comments:

  • Rich

    But ther still must of been fragments of memory metal at the brazel site mixed in with the ballon debris as lots of people supossedly had it.

    I hope this is factored in to the roswell teams scenerio

    By Blogger Al12, at Tuesday, June 03, 2014  

  • AI12:

    The Brazel debris and episode has nothing -- absolutely nothing! -- to do with the actual Roswell event.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Tuesday, June 03, 2014  

  • Rich

    what i am trying to say is where or how did people ever come into possesion of the exotic debris if it wasnt mixed in with the mogul debris, since the roswell incident as you say never took place ther.

    They must of picked it up somewhere as people other than military supposedly had some, ranchers etc.

    By Blogger Al12, at Tuesday, June 03, 2014  

  • AI12:

    Mac Brazel found some odd debris at the Foster ranch, certainly.

    It was balloon debris, maybe Mogul, maybe not. It was odd apparently.

    Kevin Randle and his flunkies keep arguing that it wasn't Mogul launch number 4, and they may be right.

    Yet it could have been from previous Mogul launches, or was just weather balloon derbis from any number of other military operations in the over-all vicinity.

    That said, the debris was not metal or maleable metal; it was just debris.

    But when the military was apprised of the Brazel find, it found a foil (no pun) to use as a cover for the actual Roswell event which was to the east of the Foster ranch, north of Roswell, and had nothing to do with Brazel's scrap heap.

    That UFO biffs fixated, wrongly, on the Brazel episode allowed the Air Force, in 1947 and better in the 90s, to push the Mogul balloon angle, to deflect ufologists from the real incident.

    The Air Force was astute and successful in the ploy, which Kevin Randle and others keep flogging, while the real Roswell event lies dormant.

    However, the Roswell research team, the former Dream Team, is on to the real event and will dislose their findings in coming months --what they have -- and the Roswell incident will get a real scrutiny, finally by skeptics and believers, without all the stupid machinations about Mogul, Moore, or Brazel.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Tuesday, June 03, 2014  

  • Ok Rich

    yeah the findings i am looking forward too

    I really hope it explains most if not all which went on.

    By Blogger Al12, at Tuesday, June 03, 2014  

  • Are you saying the Dream Team has changed its name?

    Are you saying that the 'real' Roswell Incident had nothing to do with what the newspapers described at the time?

    Are you just trying to promote the (ex)-Dream Time's findings in advance by hinting at great revelations to come which have nothing to do with ET?

    Think of people like Bragalia, Randle & Rudiak who have invested their time and expertise, and probably money as well, in the ET thesis to the exclusion of all else.

    You sound as if you are warning everyone that although great revelations are to come, they will in fact be a gigantic damp squib.

    In which case we can now all go to sleep and just forget the 'incident' ever happened.

    As I have said elsewhere, the scientific fraternity has done this long, long ago anyway.

    Or are you just having a big joke at our expense?

    By Blogger cda, at Tuesday, June 03, 2014  

  • CDA:

    The Dream Team epithet is no longer in use.

    The guys working the Roswell story prefer The Roswell Investigations Team or The Roswell Research Team, I think.

    (The Roswell Dream Team handle was bad from he get-go.)

    The fellows will, later this year, present what will spark the Roswell debate anew.

    My point here is to get you Roswellian ufologists and skeptics to forget about the Mogul balloon explanation along with all the hub-bub about Mac Brazel's debris.

    Brazel's escapade was just a remarkable coincidence during the 1947 incident.

    His junk pile was used by the military to deflect media and the public from what actually was the Roswell incident.

    The deflection worked and continues to this day because UFO buffs have come to believe that Brazel and his pile of crap was at the center of the Roswell event.

    It wasn't.

    The relatively imminent Roswell Team disclosure will show that continued debate about Brazel and Mogul or malleable metal is just plain stupid.

    My feeling, and I think Nick Redfern might agree, is that even the Team disclosure to come will resolve nothing, and open a new debate, by skeptics and believers alike.

    I could outline the problem but am sworn to quiet so as not to upstage the pending Roswell disclosure.

    I can wait to weigh in.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Tuesday, June 03, 2014  

  • RRRGroup,

    Are the much hyped slides set to be part of this information, or has that part of the story faded from view?

    By Blogger Ross, at Tuesday, June 03, 2014  

  • Ross:

    I suspect the so-called Roswell slides will be the centerpiece of the Team's presentation.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Tuesday, June 03, 2014  

  • Ross:

    I suspect the so-called Roswell slides will be the centerpiece of the Team's presentation.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Tuesday, June 03, 2014  

  • The position seems to be thus:

    1. The new evidence will be presented soon, along with some photos.

    2. This evidence will achieve nothing useful to science.

    3. It is just a coincidence that the 'new' event occurred on or about the same time as the Brazel ranch story.

    4. It will cause further debate but will produce no satisfactory answer.

    5. It may raise a few eyebrows temporarily but that is all.

    6. The scientific community and the military will ignore it completely.

    Any chance of it making a new book, TV series or movie?

    By Blogger cda, at Wednesday, June 04, 2014  

  • CDA:

    There is the possibility that the Roswell Team disclosure will "force" the U.S. military (the Air Force, it seems) to provide a new explanation of what happened near Roswell in 1947.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, June 04, 2014  

  • RR:

    Seriously, that possibility is about as close to zero as you can get.

    But we all live in eternal hope.

    By Blogger cda, at Wednesday, June 04, 2014  

  • No, Christopher...

    If the Roswell Team does it right, they can cause the U.S. military to revisit the Roswell thing, and with the "evidence" the Team has nurtured and gathered, the Air Force may have to come up with something -- something new -- besides Mogul or parachuted dummies.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, June 04, 2014  

  • Rich.

    i really hope what your saying does happen with the Air Force.

    Just what can they come up with though? they used dummies that now look like greyish type aliens,

    In my opinion they would be stuck for an explanation an so have to agree with cda that they wouldnt give one, unless ther really is an earthquake caused by this revelation.

    especially as ive said before that these photos reveal a being that was descriped by the witness to roswell ie a dead grey alien.

    By Blogger Al12, at Wednesday, June 04, 2014  

  • AI12:

    Forget about little grey aliens.

    You need to skip the long-held, false witness reports that UFO buffs have fostered over the years.

    We're in new territory here.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, June 04, 2014  

  • Rich

    This will be interesting then wont it

    Just what is it that is in these photos along with the explanation.

    Are they alien or human or chimp, an if they are human or chimp why hasnt the Airforce said already, they have admitted to worse before today.

    an that explanation wouldnt account for the memory metal either

    Seriously though i do hope this forces something out though.

    By Blogger Al12, at Wednesday, June 04, 2014  

  • AI12:

    You have got to cleanse your mind of the peripheral elements of the Roswell saga, like memory metal.

    While such aspects resonate, they have nothing to do with the core discovery that could clear the air in the Roswell tale and UFOs generally.

    The Roswell Team should provide a comeuppance to the Air Force, showing they covered-up what happened near Roswell while providing a possible discovery that gets at the heart of the UFO reality.

    Whatever happens, Roswell will be on the front burner once more, to the chagrin of Roswell skeptics and those tired of all the Roswell hoopla over the years and now.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, June 04, 2014  

  • Rich.

    i hear you, the discovery being essentially an odd piloted craft landing or crashing for whatever reason outside of roswell, a ET event or human, thats the question.

    Really looking forward to this revelation, we all just got to wait a little more now i guess.

    By Blogger Al12, at Wednesday, June 04, 2014  

  • @RR

    It sure sounds like you've got something real interesting on the horizon, and if it has you guys excited... Any idea on when we can expect more details?

    I also was suspecting the Brazel debris was a cover for whatever really went on. If I wanted to get a picture of what you think happened at Roswell - what should I read?

    By Blogger Clayton Robertson, at Wednesday, June 04, 2014  

  • The Roswell Team's event, Clayton, should take place later this year maybe by the end of summer.

    Nothing in any book or elsewhere has the information that is to be imparted.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, June 04, 2014  

  • If I may offer an opinion as to why many cannot let go of the Brazel story...

    I think it was CDA, either here or on Kevin Randle's blog who wrote he would not accept witness accounts which did not conform to the 1947 news stories (my apologies to Chris if I'm misquoting him).

    Both Roswell skeptics and advocates accept the newspaper stories: the press release, Wilcox's comments, Ramey at Ft Worth, and the Brazel interview, as a true story.

    But only Ramey in Ft Worth is documented (we have photos). The rest of it, the story that leads to Ft Worth is only supported by "post-1978" witnesses, especially Marcel Sr.

    The advocates think the Ft Worth "reveal" is not true, but they don't consider that the other stories are not true. For them Ramey lied about the pr, Wilcox, Brazel stories -- even though they obviously are from the same source, Ft Worth.

    The skeptics believe the Ft Worth Ramey story is true, thus they must believe the pr, Wilcox, and Brazel parts for which there is little corroboration besides Marcel Sr (and a few decades later, Cavitt, sort of).

    And that's why Mogul is such a big deal for all of them.

    The skeptics and advocates together agree these unsupported tales are true and that is the problem. The ET debate they love is, you might say, their cover story.

    Regards,

    Don

    By Blogger Don, at Thursday, June 05, 2014  

  • I know Rich said we should throw out the Mac Brazel part of the story- as it is basically a cover for what really happened. However, I feel like the public wouldn't know anything bout Roswell if it weren't for Mac Brazel. So why use anything as a cover? Why say anything at all? Am I missing something here? Why create a cover story using a rancher and a weather balloon for something the public was unaware of?

    Also I do find it difficult to totally discount the unusual properties of the debris found.

    I'm all honesty I just want the truth of what really happened- ET or not. Do I hope it was an ET event- hell yeah. But at the end of the day I think most just want the truth.

    Hope this new information and slides from the Roswell team can shed light on the matter. Looking forward to their disclosure.

    By Blogger Daniel Hurd, at Thursday, June 05, 2014  

  • Yes, Daniel...

    The Brazel episode is part of the mix, and important as it was used as an element of the eventual cover story.

    My problem is that some UFO buffs have fixated on Brazel and his pile of debris to the exclusion of the real story, the real incident that took place elsewhere and later than the Brazel discovery of debris (in June, not July).

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, June 05, 2014  

  • Daniel Hurd: "I feel like the public wouldn't know anything bout Roswell if it weren't for Mac Brazel. So why use anything as a cover? Why say anything at all? Am I missing something here?"

    Either the story was already out, or they did not feel confident they "owned" the story...we don't know what we don't know.

    Those are some reasons for having a cover story.

    Regards,

    Don

    By Blogger Don, at Thursday, June 05, 2014  

  • Good point Don. There are many unknowns with this event.

    By Blogger Daniel Hurd, at Thursday, June 05, 2014  

  • I would say that Brazel had to have some knowledge of the real event for one reason: Dee Proctor.

    There's good data suggesting that young Proctor was with Brazel when what has become known as "something else" was found, and which was not debris.

    Suggestions have been made that it was bodies, a body, or body-parts.

    So, if that is true (and, granted, we don't really know), then this places Brazel right in the heart of what happened, rather than just as someone whose debris find acted as a convenient cover.

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Thursday, June 05, 2014  

  • Nick, whether or not Brazel found anything of significance can't be supported by what we know from 1947. The one person who could have supported the Brazel story, Hollis Wilson, was not interviewed, afaict, although he died in 1992.

    For the later witnesses, since I cannot interview them, I have to make a judgement call as to whether their accounts could have occurred in the summer of 1947. Loretta Proctor passes that test, but Bill Brazel (in B&M) gets a 50-50 score, for example.

    The press release story (Brazel to Wilcox to Marcel) is just not believable

    I don't know whether things will go this way, but I suspect that when the Roswell event becomes known, it will implicate some other ufo events from the preceding weeks. There were several events reported as hoaxes that may not have been such...or, they were hoaxes of a different order than we have been led to believe.

    The danger in "proving" Roswell, would be if it occluded other "events". Proving one isolated event, no matter how spectacular, can be a 'cover' itself.

    Best Regards,

    Don

    By Blogger Don, at Thursday, June 05, 2014  

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