UFO Conjecture(s)

Thursday, June 05, 2014

UFO Memory

Dimitri Mellos wrote to The New Yorker [June9 & 16, 2014, Page 11] in response to Michael Specter’s article in the May 19th issue about how neuroscience has currently been corroborating Freud’s theories, resurrecting the psychoanalyst to a new, esteemed status among scientists:

With his concepts of “screen memories” and Nachträglichkeit (“deferred action,” or “afterwardness”), Freud described how memory is a palimpsest, a work of constant reconstruction, and how subsequent experiences can alter both the content and the psychological import of previous memories.

Yes, memory is compromised by the intersection of past experiences with more recent experiences, making UFO witness testimony, especially the Roswell witness testimony, gathered years after the supposed event, suspect.

However, The Arts cable offering has a documentary segment that presents a remembrance by 88 year-old Eva Hart recounting her experiences at age 7 aboard The Titanic when it sank in 1912:
Ms. Hart’s reconstruction of what happened to her was supported by photos taken aboard the great ship in 1912 showing her remembrance of detail was spot on.

Thus, one might conclude that some old memories remain intact and pretty much accurate.

When UFO investigators take witness testimony, they have to gather supporting testimony or evidence to corroborate what they’ve been told.

This hadn’t been done in the past, and the opportunity to do so is now lost or gone.

But let Freud’s insights be a caveat for today’s UFO researchers or investigators.



  • The topic of memory as both pliable and, at times, indelible, is linked in my mind to your other post on Slenderman regarding the twelve year old claiming that this fictional character was the impetus to commit murder. Then there is the post on Zamorra that suggests that his memory of the event was an intentional fiction and this possibility is based on a son’s memory of his father.
    I suspect Slenderman as a motive is a screen to avoid the recounting of the actual motive of these young girls that posits that such a motive as a memory does not exist.
    The son’s memory does not count as evidence with collaboration and it raises more questions than answers. I think any researcher must leven how they define truth. Yet the opposite is more of a statement than a question as another pitfall.
    Then (as you suggest) the USAF has made a policy and strategy of manipulating fabricated scenarios to cover what actually occurred at Roswell. .
    It may be all three posts are more about the creation of a false memory or account of an event as a screen, as memory itself may be pliable to some degree there is no litmus test other than material evidence to the contrary to contest the validity of either a lie or the truth in regard to “planted” memories. These memes of truth seem to be nothing more than bootstrapping a relative position in relation to ambivalence. In other words truth may be more of a matter of philosophy than direct verification.
    . However, even evidence itself (more often than not) cannot fully reveal the truth as a conclusive statement of facts strung together by causality.
    How much do we accept without direct verification on faith alone? I would say an enormous amount. While some have said “truth is a pathless land” we have paths culturally planted all around us as a proverbial labyrinth. What is an acceptable lie versus an unacceptable one?
    For this there is no objective, collective arbitration of belief.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Thursday, June 05, 2014  

  • I once met a guy wandering about the Fisherman's Wharf In San Francisco, who got talking with me about all sorts of things. He seemed quite knowledgeable.

    We got onto Sigmund Freud for some reason and he told me that Freud committed suicide by arrangement with his doctor.

    Have you heard of this?

    By Blogger cda, at Thursday, June 05, 2014  

  • Actually CDA I have...

    Freud was in great pain because of his chin/jaw cancer.

    That he might have considered suicide is not unimaginable.

    But the story was discounted by his daughter, Anna Freud, long ago.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, June 05, 2014  

  • Freud had a physician-assisted suicide. Freud had cancer of the mouth and hard palate. In the last year of his life, he had a two-hour operation and x-ray treatments, but the cancer remained malignant. The cancer became ulcerated and emitted a fetid smell. Freud and Dr. Schur pre-arranged that when the patient indicated the end had come, the doctor would not fail him.

    However, on the advice of his lawyer, Dr. Schur publicly reported that he gave Freud a therapeutic dosage of morphine: two centigrams for sedation. But Peter Gay, going through Schur's papers, discovered it was three centigrams, and that there were three such injections, not one. When the order came, Freud gave Anna the chance to veto the decision. She did not.

    (Peter Gay, Freud: A Life For Our Time, pp 634-5, 642-3, 650-1, 739-740, Norton paperback edition)

    By Blogger Terry the Censor, at Friday, June 06, 2014  

  • Thank you Terry...

    However, Freud's death is not quite a literal suicide.

    And Anna Freud wanted to pospone Dr. Schur's "decision" to administer a lethal dose of morphine but Schur went ahead anyway.

    Dr. Schur's act was merciful perhaps but actually murder, and would be so designated if it happened today.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, June 06, 2014  

  • I would disagree about Anna's role. That's a myth constructed to protect her from criticism and perhaps charges (as you suggest, the law would probably see this case as murder, since Freud did not administer the doses himself). As I've noted, Schur's published account was alter on legal advice.

    Anna suggested Schur be her father's physician, she gave Schur access to the house, and she was consulted before the morphine was given. The doses were give over two days, not all at once. There's no way it was done without Anna's knowledge.

    By Blogger Terry the Censor, at Friday, June 06, 2014  

  • Yes, Terry...

    The situation is iffy, only because of Anna Freud's intense relationship with Freud and her reputation.

    That she may have "looked away" isn't impossible to accept however.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, June 06, 2014  

  • If there is to be a revival of Freud in the English speaking world, then students will have to be bilingual and read him in another language -- German, Italian, French, Spanish. Anything but English.

    The official English translations are full of weasel words, most in Latin or Greek, and near pseudo-scientific babble, since Freud's psychology was captured by the medical profession.

    One has to be a medical doctor and a psychiatrist to hang an official Psychoanalyst shingle on your office door.

    My favorite is the translation of 'Sele' as 'psychical apparatus', rather than simply 'soul' or 'spirit' or even 'psyche'.

    The Interpretation of Dreams translation, though, is ok, as it comes from another source.



    By Blogger Don, at Friday, June 06, 2014  

  • I have Freud's works in the German editions, Don.

    And you can see that you, I, and Terry have strayed from the topic, pushed along by CDA's aside.

    Our digressions are rife for psycho-analytic interpretation.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, June 06, 2014  

  • I am now 70 years old. I had my daylight sighting in 1962 or 63. It was daylight and most of you know me and about my sighting. I have memory problems now. Concentration is very difficult. My computer knowledge has waned considerably. I have argued my points with your group many times. If you asked me to be specifics of what i did last week I would be hard pressed.
    I remember my sighting as if it was yesterday. It changed my life. I knew after that day nothing in my belief system would be the same. Ask old Veterans of the wars what they remember, you will be surprised how these very elderly gentleman can easily remember their life changing moments.
    A UFO sighting can be so traumatic that you never forget the details. So this memory stuff is nonsense when it comes to the slow normal aging process and this type of pronounced and sometimes profound experience.
    The truth is u still remember period.
    I no longer respect any of what is being done here. UFOs are real they exhibit all the characteristics of intelligently flown craft and if only 1 percent of the You Tube video now taken are real the debate is over.
    You can go on You Tube and find people from all over the world who film these things with groups of people present. Some of the whistle blowers that have spoken out reinforce this knowledge. You guys are living a different world. Let a few women join your think tank - for a breath of fresh air and insightful perspective.
    Yes there may be some credible witnesses at Roswell that don't remember what happened or change their stories over time.
    But God that is normal on any report of this magnitude. In my life I have read many biographies of great people in the past by different historians (not UFO related) and they never agree on the details.
    The disgrace of your blog, and I include you Bruce, Is it is an insult to the type of uniformed officer that protected you ass so you can raise from these insulting opinions.
    The top intelligence officer could not figure out it was a balloon. He raced to his home hours away to show his children the wreckage of a weather balloon.
    There were times when insulting our vets was considered almost sacrilegious not just another way to debunk a the UFO subject. Shame on you and the RRR group the same group that tried to pull a fast one with the Trent photos.
    Joe Capp
    UFO Media Matters
    Non-Commercial Blog

    By Blogger Joseph Capp, at Saturday, June 07, 2014  

  • @Joe Capp
    > If you asked me to be specifics of what i did last week I would be hard pressed. I remember my sighting as if it was yesterday.

    Joe, with respect, that is what you would expect from memory.

    Early, personally signifiant memories get worked over and over and over in one's mind -- they are greatly reinforced -- while new memories have not made such a deep impression.

    Numerous scientific studies -- and review of some classic UFO cases -- show that this constant working over of old memories tends to change them slightly as well: they get pruned, patched and polished, as with any narration told over and over. We are usually unaware it is happening; it sometimes takes decades to see the effects.

    I hope you are feeling well, Joe. I used to read your blog. I only stopped because your prose got quite difficult to understand (owing to health or technical problems, I do not know, and it was not my business to ask).

    By Blogger Terry the Censor, at Monday, June 09, 2014  

  • @Joe Capp
    > UFOs are real they exhibit all the characteristics of intelligently flown craft

    With respect, Joe, they don't.

    Intelligently flown craft have known takeoff and landing points, they have predictable flight paths, they have busy storage and refuelling facilities, they leave measurable emissions, they are occasionally hijacked, they sometimes crash into fields or houses or buildings, where they are swarmed by reporters and TV cameras.

    UFOs have none of these qualities, even after 65 years of searching.

    By Blogger Terry the Censor, at Monday, June 09, 2014  

Post a Comment

<< Home