UFO Conjecture(s)

Friday, July 25, 2014

The FBI wants no part of the Army Air Force or Navy 'flying disk" nonsense

http://fkbureau.homestead.com/fbi-fugo.jpg

10 Comments:

  • C'mon Rich, don't start revising history. The memo did not characterize the "flying disk" issue as "nonsense"; you did.

    By characterizing the issue as a military one, the author of the memo implies that he accepts the issue as real (even if deriving from a mundane source). The rationale for not getting involved is that 1) the FBI is not really equipped to make headway (given that it cannot pry secrets from the military and has no authority to spy on Russia) and 2) even if they did, the FBI wouldn't get credit for it.

    By Blogger Larry, at Friday, July 25, 2014  

  • But it is nonsense, Larry.

    We all know that, down deep.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, July 25, 2014  

  • But to be serious, Larry...

    The "nonsense" was the military's attempt (machinations) to get the FBI to do its legwork (investigation).

    Apprarently I didn't make that clear in my title.

    (I thought astute readers would get that.)

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Saturday, July 26, 2014  

  • Rich: "The "nonsense" was the military's attempt (machinations) to get the FBI to do its legwork (investigation)."

    That is how it would develop over the next two months, but this memo is about something else. The context is the delimitation agreement under which the CIC (and I suppose Naval Intelligence) and the FBI parted out their counter-subversive investigations.

    The Air Force involved the FBI in saucer investigations because of the suspicion that the saucer reports may be evidence of Soviet psychological warfare undertaken by either communists or their domestic 'useful idiots'.

    The deaths of Captain Davidson and Lt Brown made it evident to the FBI that the CIC was investigating civilians -- that is, proactive in the FBI's domain. The memo's interpretation of this is that the Air Force considered the saucers to be a military matter and therefore not a matter for the FBI. This had been discussed between them previously on a high level, especially the possibility of the FBI inadvertently revealing a secret military project while investigating a saucer report.

    A few weeks later, Lt Col Springer, A2 Hamilton Field, who was assigning CIC agents to the investigations, requested the FBI interview Rhodes in Phoenix and allow a CIC agent to audit the interview. This is a unique document, I think. There is nothing similar in the other cases undertaken previously by A2 Hamilton. It seems most likely that A2 was informed of the FBI opinion and was attempting to keep the FBI in the saucer investigations. The effort lasted barely 24 hours. By mid-September FBI policy was to refer all saucer reports received to the Air Force. This is the policy referred to in the FBI Socorro files, for example, so it was still in effect in 1964.


    Best Regards,

    Don

    By Blogger Don, at Saturday, July 26, 2014  

  • Thanks, Don.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Saturday, July 26, 2014  

  • See the last sentence of the memo, fellows.

    That's the gist of it.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Saturday, July 26, 2014  

  • Rich: "See the last sentence of the memo, fellows."

    There is no indication of 'nonsense' in this 8/8 memo. Ladd's opinion I understand to refer to the fact that since the AAF was investigating civilian saucer reports, the FBI was basically working for the AAF by investigating the reports as well.

    This is not quite the same issue as the "toilet seat memo" fuss in September.

    Best Regards,

    Don

    By Blogger Don, at Saturday, July 26, 2014  

  • Don:

    I see the memo as a plaint about the military trying to get the FBI to do some of its investigating, for various reasons.

    Don't let my word "nonsense" take you away from that core sentiment of the memo, as I see it....which in my frame of reference is "nonsense."

    You, Don, don't seem to get the point of the memo, making it something more than a plea to opt out of the flying disk silliness.

    Don't bother repying to this, as the matter is closed as far as I'm concerned: the FBI didn't want to get entangled in what was a chore that the military should deal with -- the flying saucer/disk farce.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Saturday, July 26, 2014  

  • Rich: "Don't bother repying to this, as the matter is closed as far as I'm concerned: the FBI didn't want to get entangled in what was a chore that the military should deal with -- the flying saucer/disk farce."

    But we don't disagree.

    The FBI also thought the army was taking credit for work FBI agents had done. That may have been the case in the immediate instance of this memo. The FBI had made a substantial investigation of Maury Island which it sent to the AAF -- and the saucer wave wasn't the only issue in 1947 that the FBI and the army were at odds over.

    What I haven't found is an FBI opinion that the saucers were either nonsense or a farce. There is one Hoover outburst to Ladd that suggests it, though.

    Best Regards,

    Don

    By Blogger Don, at Saturday, July 26, 2014  

  • Thanks, Don...

    I didn't want to get entangled in a run-down caused by my using, to provoke interest, the word "nonsense."

    Larry already was hot to denigrate the word, and you leaned into it.

    I thought Zoam might jump in to sop up the word, which bolsters his UFO-atheism.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Saturday, July 26, 2014  

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