UFO Conjecture(s)

Thursday, July 10, 2014

The Roswell slides may not see the light of day…

Or, at least, not by way of the Roswell “Dream Team.”

It seems that that the woman who found the slides in a trunk as part of the estate sale of Hilda Ray took the slides without notifying the court of them in the catalogue of estate items and, thus, engaged, allegedly, in theft, transferring the slides to her brother, who could be charged with conspiracy to defraud.

Who are the victims of the alleged fraud? I don’t know.

But the Attorney General of Texas will determine who is to be notified of the fiduciary breach and whether or not they wish to prosecute.

This is an ongoing matter, and I’ll keep you-up-to-date as the matter is adjudicated.

RR

26 Comments:

  • Rich

    you do realise ther is going to be people all over this now saying "told you so, you,ll never see them"

    Am not one of them but i can see where they are coming from now this has arisen, its yet again for right or wrong reasons just another pointless hurdle.

    By Blogger Al12, at Thursday, July 10, 2014  

  • AI12...

    This comes from the topic at our private UFO web-site, from an attornney there and others.

    I have no idea how this actually impacts the matter or how the Roswell guys may be handling this, if at all.

    I'll keep on top of it, however.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, July 10, 2014  

  • Part 1
    Rich, FWIW:

    Early in March, 2014, I met with the owner of the slides, viewed them, and talked to him about his plans. (Actually, I viewed digital reproductions of the slides.) Here’s a brief status report.

    The owner repeated the basic story as described in Anthony Bragalia’s article, with more specific detail, such as dates and locations. The owner affirmed that it is his intent to present the slides and their story to the public in a non-sensationialistic forum, after he has satisfied himself as to their authenticity. He feels he is nearing the end of that phase. At least one of the slides has had the cardboard sleeve sliced open to read the film edge code. The 2 subject photos appear to be a small subset of a large collection of photos of personal interest to Bernerd Ray and his wife. The larger collection of photos (perhaps 50 or more) appear to show places and events the couple visited in the time frame approximately 1945 to 1952. The owner is convinced that when analysis is complete, the slides will be shown to have originated sometime before 1949.

    By Blogger Larry, at Thursday, July 10, 2014  

  • Part 2

    What do the slides show?
    1. There are 2 photos, taken in an indoor setting.
    2. The photos are of poor quality (focus, exposure) compared to virtually all the other photos in the same collection. For this reason, edge detection, contrast enhancement and other photoanalysis techniques are warranted and are being used.
    3. The photos appear to have been taken about 4 or 5 feet from the humanoid, from a position slightly above it.
    4. To my eye, the humanoid is lying on a clear glass shelf and is surrounded by either clear glass walls and/or a full glass enclosure. The enclosure appears to be more like a rectangular box than like a bottle.
    5. In one of the photos, a woman is standing behind the glass case (visible from approximately the waist down). In the other photo a man is visible in the same location, leading to speculation that the man and the woman traded places and took turns taking pictures.
    6. The humanoid is not immersed in a fluid; it appears to be open to the air (at least if the lid were off).
    7. The glass shelf/ box that the humanoid is on/in appears to be supported on shelf brackets that are connected to vertical, metal supports. The vertical supports are perforated at regular intervals (nominally, 1 inch spacing) by drilled holes. The shelf arrangement gives the appearance of a laboratory apparatus rack.
    8. The humanoid is lying on its back, with its head to the camera’s left and feet to the right.
    9. There is some type of placard on the front of the glass case, with (currently undecipherable, out-of-focus) writing on it. (Shades of the Ramey memo!) It is my suspicion that this placard is the source of the idea that the genital area of the humanoid was deliberately covered up in order to escape the wrath of the censors when the slides were developed. I don’t think that is the case. From what I could see, the genital area was not visible to the camera due to the view angle of the camera. I suspect that the placard simply serves to identify the contents of the glass case.
    10. The proportions of the humanoid appear to be slightly different than a “normal” human, but probably, no single dimension of the body is outside the range of naturally occurring sizes. The length of the head (crown to chin) is approximately the same length as the torso (neck to crotch). The arm length (shoulder to wrist) is approximately the length of the torso (i.e., the wrist joint is approximately aligned with the hip bone). The leg bones are long, compared to the arms.
    11. Given that the body is about 3 feet long, if it is human, then it must be either a child or an adult with a developmental disorder. (Human Trisomy 17 has been suggested as a candidate.)
    12. I could not see digits on either the hands or feet, and so could not count them.
    13. The mouth is open and no teeth are visible.
    14. The skin of the humanoid is smooth and appears to have shrunk taut against the bones (ribs, legs, arms, cranium). Whether this is due to natural effects of death (saponification, dessication, etc.) or is the result of some post-mortem treatment (embalming, freezing, etc.) is not clear.
    15. The head appears to have been severed from the top of the spinal column and then replaced, lying at an unnatural angle relative to the torso.
    16. There is nothing in the photo that would either definitively connect this to the Roswell event or definitively disconnect it. Any connection is coincidental (it appears to have been taken at about the right time).

    By Blogger Larry, at Thursday, July 10, 2014  

  • Rich

    The roswell guys are the ones i feel somewhat sorry for since they have spent time and effort into this

    But as you rightly say, we,ll see how it pans out.

    By Blogger Al12, at Thursday, July 10, 2014  

  • Thank you Larry...

    This is about what has been posted at our private UFO web-site by someone who has been privy to the slides also or got a description of them; he, however, only mentioned two slides.

    As noted here previously, the slides will not convince anyone of anything but leave open what they represent.

    It's grist for more debate, which is okay with me.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, July 10, 2014  

  • Was hoping to hear better news pertaining to the slides. Although I had a feeling there would be some red tape involved.
    My thoughts on what Larry posted- if true. The glass box and placard seem odd for a highly classified subject. The glass box seems strange as a method of preservation, however we do not know if it is normally contained within cold storage or some other means of preservation.
    It just bothers my mind that folks were allowed to photograph this humanoid as if it were on public display.
    However this does not rule out any possibility. Still very interesting, can't wait to eventually see the images- hopefully.

    Thanks for the update Rich, and thanks to Larry for giving us a little more detail.

    By Blogger Daniel Hurd, at Thursday, July 10, 2014  

  • Chances are that as soon as this latest idiocy makes it out of the hands of the UFO nuts into the public realm, that the actual source of whatever is depicted will be identified very quickly,

    In the meantime we have to endure the silly double-nought spy pretentions and pretend science.

    Lance

    By Blogger Lance, at Thursday, July 10, 2014  

  • Larry, can you tell us anything about the lighting? Bright? Dim? Neutral? How many light sources and what kind?

    So far, I've got color film, 35mm Kodachrome, indoors, sometime late 40's, early 50s', shot approx. 4-6 feet from object, and image is not in the acceptable field of focus.

    Is that correct?

    Regards,

    Don

    By Blogger Don, at Thursday, July 10, 2014  

  • No Rich, completely untrue! Who told you this poppycock? There is no TX Attorney General interest, no litigation, law suit or other legal hindrance of any kind in release of the slides...

    The slides were obtained by a clean-out of a deceased owner's home (therefore legally trash) and not obtained from an "estate sale."

    And any statute of limitations would have long passed to lay claim to the slides, Also...

    Hilda had no children. Bernerd had no children. There are no direct descendants, no one to lay claim or make the claim to the slides.

    The whole thing you've written is preposterous on the face of it for these reasons and more.

    And a Roswell team member I have just phoned who is closer to this situation than any of us thinks it ridiculous.

    AJB

    By Blogger Anthony Bragalia, at Thursday, July 10, 2014  

  • Anthony,
    Any word on a disclosure time frame? Or what method they will use to disclose this information?

    Some other thoughts I had- do the slides show anything about the room? Color, lighting, base molding, etc? I would love to find some photos from various laboratories in the 1940-50s and see if anything matches. Possibly Wright Patterson Aero-Med, Battelle, Oak Ridge, Los Alamos, etc.
    Another thought is the method of preservation during that time. What methods were known/available?
    I'm sure these are fairly obvious questions, and I would assume have been followed up on already.

    Again thank you for keeping us in the loop Tony, Rich, and Larry.

    By Blogger Daniel Hurd, at Thursday, July 10, 2014  

  • Anthony:

    The attorney who broached the topic at our web-site says the Ray property was probated and, thus, a government estate sale, in which all assets and intestate property was to be detrmined by a judge and distributed to creditors and heirs, if any.

    I have no idea what the Statute of Limitations would be for such in Texas but the matter is a legal one and it appears that something was legally breached.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, July 10, 2014  

  • Hi Daniel-

    I have no involvement of any kind in public release of the slides and neither does Tom Carey, Don, or any other investigator. This includes anything related to when, where, and how.

    These decisions are solely those of the owner.

    I agree with my friend Larry. The end of the authentication process has arrived and that attention is now towards the next phase: What venue and which broadcast outlet and format will be the least sensational and most credible to present the slides.

    AJB

    By Blogger Anthony Bragalia, at Thursday, July 10, 2014  

  • " The owner affirmed that it is his intent to present the slides and their story to the public in a non-sensationialistic forum"


    And he goes about it by getting some arch Roswell bozos on board and engaging 2 of them in a non-disclosure agreement. Puleeze.

    By Blogger Ross, at Thursday, July 10, 2014  

  • If the description reproduced by Larry is accurate then we are in for one very damp squib.

    'Cosmic import' ;words I feel you shall be eating Mr. Bragalia.

    By Blogger Ross, at Thursday, July 10, 2014  

  • What venue and which broadcast outlet and format will be the least sensational and most credible to present the slides.

    i.e. $$$$$

    Otherwise, the slides would have been handed over to the National Academy of Science.

    By Blogger Paul Kimball, at Thursday, July 10, 2014  

  • Paul,

    I think you've got the gist of it. This isn't about science or proving much of anything... It's about cashing in on some "found photos"... kind of like the way grave robbers cash-in "relics" they've "obtained"... and thereby destroying their scientific value.

    Will these two photos break the "conspiracy of Roswell" wide open? I doubt it.. this is not a "smoking gun"... and with the provenance of these items, their value is questionable. It certainly won't impress the skeptical.

    Seems to be a wasted effort all the way around.

    By Blogger Joel Crook, at Thursday, July 10, 2014  

  • Larry makes an important statement that I find very intriguing.

    He says:

    "In one of the photos, a woman is standing behind the glass case (visible from approximately the waist down). In the other photo a man is visible in the same location, leading to speculation that the man and the woman traded places and took turns taking pictures."

    This provokes (for me, at least) a situation/scenario in which the photos were taken in a very relaxed setting, kind of: "Take my picture with it, and then I'll take yours."

    If the photos were taken by the Rays (and, granted, we don't know for sure), then how is it that such a relaxed, informal situation could occur where presumably highly-classified bodies were stored?

    That makes me think the setting wasn't highly classified, which, of course, begs even more questions, such as why wasn't it highly classified?

    Why and how did the Ray's - if was them in the photos - have the time and ability to actually trade places and take pics with it, like someone might trade places and pose with a couple of friends at the beach?

    We hear a lot of stories of the Roswell bodies being the subject of great secrecy - both when found on the Foster Ranch and after transfer, possibly to Wright Field.

    So, how do we reconcile that with the Ray situation, which sounds more like someone posing with a "Fiji Mermaid" or "two headed snake" at a town carnival.

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Friday, July 11, 2014  

  • Nick, "visible from approximately the waist down" doesn't sound like tourist snaps. It is a peculiarity, though.

    Cramped quarters?

    Best Regards,

    Don

    By Blogger Don, at Friday, July 11, 2014  

  • Don:

    But the important thing is that it does suggest they had the ability and time to trade places.

    I would imagine that if the photos were taken clandestinely, they would not have been so foolish to actually stand by it!

    And, again, I come back to the main point: to pose by it suggests there was no security around.

    I could see that as quite feasible if it was a desert location and amid all the chaos of the crash, but in a building, after the bodies had been recovered?

    The whole issue of posing with the bodies is at odds with everything we hear about the bodies being highly classified.

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Friday, July 11, 2014  

  • Nick, I don't think Larry has responded to several requests about the lighting in the slides. There seems to be a lot of glass in the scene. Glass reflects. Perhaps the lower torsos are reflections.

    Larry referred to focus issues. Do both slides have the identical issues? Are the two virtually duplicates? Is one better than the other? Are they numbered? In what order were they shot?

    Shooting 1947 Kodachrome hand held indoors in available light was challenging.

    Given later faster popular lenses and shutters and later versions of Kodachrome, it becomes less challenging.

    Best Regards,

    Don

    By Blogger Don, at Friday, July 11, 2014  

  • Don:

    You say: "There seems to be a lot of glass in the scene. Glass reflects. Perhaps the lower torsos are reflections."

    An interesting concept regarding the reflection scenario. But why didn't the person who took the first photo simply take the second photo too?

    Why give the camera to another person, to take a second photograph that the original person could easily have taken anyway?

    That's why I think it was taken in a relaxed environment: we have two different people taking photos, and obviously taking the time to share the camera between them.

    In that sense, time seemed not to be of the essence, as it would be if they were skulking around somewhere they shouldn't have been.

    And even if they were somewhere they shouldn't have been, how on earth could they have gained access to the allegedly priceless bodies?

    I don't know what the images show, but I'm coming more and more around to the idea the pictures were not taken in a high security environment.


    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Friday, July 11, 2014  

  • Don and Nick...

    See my most recent post here.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, July 11, 2014  

  • I agree with you, Nick. A reason why the camera was handed to the other person, might be, considering the situation, because the first realized the shot was out of focus and handed the camera off to someone to try their luck.

    Rich's museum display case is probably what most of us are thinking of.

    Best Regards,

    Don

    By Blogger Don, at Friday, July 11, 2014  

  • > visible from approximately the waist down

    So no way to verify the identity of the people. Most especially, no way to determine if the persons in the 1949 photos still look the same in 2014.

    Who would have predicted that? Not me.

    By Blogger Terry the Censor, at Saturday, July 12, 2014  

  • > the humanoid is lying on a clear glass shelf

    Will Mr. Braglia's next post therefore claim "clear glass" is a post-Roswell concept? I can't wait!

    By Blogger Terry the Censor, at Saturday, July 12, 2014  

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