UFO Conjecture(s)

Wednesday, August 06, 2014

A Comparison of UFO Sightings: Texas 2009 and Socorro 1964

This is a first-hand report of a 2009 UFO sighting/event in Texas, culled from UFO Casebook:


near Monahans, Texas, - 12-11-09

“As we looked around, we started noticing a sort of electrical charge to the very air around us. Almost like the kind you feel when you approach a large electrical substation or a charged and active radio antenna.

We moved around and as we cleared the stand of trees, we were shocked to see an oval-shaped object hovering, maybe 4-5 feet off the ground.

As we stood there in total shock, my brother next to me expressing his disbelief, we saw two strange looking "men" appear from around the object. At first, they didn't notice us, they were busy running around and gathering objects from the ground, and from the trees.

They looked to be about the size of my oldest nephew, about 4 feet tall, but they looked very skinny, like they had no meat on their bones. Their heads were large and their arms were long, skinny, and hung down around their knees.

A few seconds later the craft lifted up, without a sound, no rush of wind, not even a swaying of the nearby branches of a tree. It rose quietly and hovered about 40 feet from the ground and shot off like a bat out of hell. As it zoomed away, it started glowing, which made it easier to track as it zoomed away getting higher and higher until it faded away.”
Compare that stylized report, with its ornately described and fiction-like account to Lonnie Zamora’s report of his 1964 Socorro sighting from NICAP files:


“At this time heard a roar and saw a flame in the sky to southwest some distance away--possibly a 1/2 mile or a mile. Came to mind that a dynamite shack in that area had blown up, decided to leave chased car go.

Flame was bluish and sort of orange too. Could not tell size of flame. Sort of motionless flame, slowly descending. Was still driving car and could not pay too much attention to the flame. It was a narrow type of flame. It was like a "stream down"--a funnel type--narrower at top than at bottom. Flame possibly 3 degrees or so in width--not wide.

Flame about twice as wide at bottom as top, and about four times as high as top was wide. Did not notice any object at top, did not note if top of flame was level. Sun was to west and did not help vision. Had green sun glasses over prescription glasses. Could not see bottom of flame because it was behind the hill. no smoke noted. Noted some "commotion" at bottom--dust? Possibly from windy day--wind was blowing hard. Clear sunny sky otherwise--just a few clouds scattered over area.

Noise was a roar, not a blast. Not like a jet. Changed from high frequency to low frequency and then stopped. Roar lasted possibly 10 seconds--was going toward it at that time on the rough gravel road. Saw flame about as long as heard the sound. Flame same color as best as recall. Sound distinctly from high to low until it disappeared. Windows both were down. No other spectators noted--no traffic except the car in front--and car in front might have heard it but possibly did not see it because car in front was too close to hill in front, to see the flame.

After the roar and flame, did not note anything, while going up the somewhat steep rough hill--had to back up and try again, two more times. Got up about halfway first time, wheels started skidding, roar still going on, had to back down and try twice and rock. While beginning third time, noise and flame not noted.

After got to top, traveled slowly on the gravel road westwardly. Noted nothing for awhile. . .for possibly 10 or 15 seconds, went slow, looking around for the shack--did not recall exactly where the dynamite shack was.

Suddenly noted a shiny type object to south about 150 to 200 yards. It was off the road. At first glance, stopped. It looked, at first, like a car turned upside down. Thought some kids might  have turned over. Saw two people in white coveralls very close to the object. One of these persons seemed to turn and look straight at my car and seemed startled--seemed to jump quickly somewhat.

At this time I started moving my car towards them quickly, with idea to help. Had stopped about only a couple seconds. Object was like aluminum--it was whitish against the mesa background, but not chrome. Seemed like O in shape and I at first glance took it to be overturned white car. Car appeared to be up on radiator or on trunk, this first glance.

The only time I saw these two persons was when I had stopped, for possibly two seconds or so, to glance at the object. I don't recall noting any particular shape or possibly any hats, or headgear. These persons appeared normal in shape--but possibly they were small adults or large kids.

Then paid attention to road while drove towards scene. Radioed to sheriff's office "Socorro 2 to Socorro, possible 10-44 (accident), I'll be 10-6 (busy) out of the car, checking the car down in the arroyo."

Stopped car, was still talking on radio, started to get out, mike fell down, reached back to put up mike, then replaced radio mike in slot, got out of car and started to go down to where I knew the object (car) was.

Hardly turned around from car, when heard roar (was not exactly a blast), very loud roar--at that close was real loud. Not like a jet--knows what jets sound like. Started low frequency quickly, then roar rose in frequency (higher tone) and in loudness--from loud to very loud. At same time as roar saw flame. Flame was under the object. Object was starting to go straight up--slowly up. Object slowly rose straight up. Flame was light blue and at bottom was sort of orange color From this angle, saw the side of object (not end, as first noted). Difficult to describe flame. Thought, from roar, it might blow up. Flame might have come from underside of object, at middle, possibly a four feet area--very rough guess. Cannot describe flame further except blue and orange. No smoke, except dust in immediate area.

As soon as saw flame and heard roar, turned away, ran away from object but did turn head toward object. Bumped leg on car--back Fender area. Car facing southwest. Glasses fell to ground, left them there. ran to north--car between him and object.

Object was oval, in shape. It was smooth--no windows or doors. As roar started, it was still on or near ground. Noted red lettering of some type (see illustration). Insignia was about 2 1/2' high and about 2' wide I guess. Was in middle of object. . .Object still like aluminum-white.

After fell by car and glasses fell off, kept running to north, with car between me and object. Glanced back couple of times. Noted object to rise to about level of car, about 20 to 25 feet guess--took I guess about six seconds when object started to rise and I glanced back. I ran I guess about halfway to where I ducked down--about fifty feet from the car is where I ducked down, just over edge of hill. I guess I had run about 25 feet when I glanced back and saw the object level with the car and it appeared about directly over the place where it rose from.

I was still running and I jumped just over the hill--I stopped because I did not hear the roar. I was scared of the roar, and I had planned to continue running down the hill. I turned around toward the object and at same time put my head toward ground, covering my face with my arms. Being that there was no roar, I looked up, and I saw the object going away from me. It did not come any closer to me. It appeared to go in straight line and at same height--possibly 10 to 15 feet from ground, and it cleared the dynamite shack by about three feet. Shack about eight feet high.

Object was traveling very fast. It seemed to rise up, and take off immediately across country. I ran back to my car and as I ran back, I kept an eye on the object. I picked up my glasses (I left the sun glasses on ground), got into the car, and radioed to Nep Lopez, radio operator, to "look out of the window, to see if you could see an object." He asked what is it? I answered "It looks like a balloon." I don't know if he saw it. If Nep looked out of his window, which faces north, he couldn't have seen it. I did not tell him at the moment which window to look out of.

As I was calling Nep, I could still see the object. The object seemed to lift up slowly, and to "get small" in the distance very fast. It seemed to just clear the Box Canyon or Six Mile Canyon Mountain. It disappeared as it went over the mountain. It had no flame whatsoever as it was traveling over the ground, and no smoke or noise.

Feeling in good health. Last drink--two or three beers--was over a month ago. Noted no odors. Noted no sounds other than described. Gave directions to Nep Lopez at radio and to Sergeant M.S. Chavez to get there. Went down to where the object had been and I noted the brush was burning in several places. At that time I heard Sgt. Chavez (N.M. State Police at Socorro) calling me on radio for my location, and I returned to my car, told him he was looking at me. Then Sgt. Chavez came up, asked me what the trouble was, because I was sweating and he told me I was white, very pale. I asked the Sgt. to see what I saw, and that was the burning brush. Then Sgt. Chavez and I went to the spot, and Sgt. Chavez pointed out the tracks.

When I first saw the object (when I thought it might be a car) I saw what appeared to be two legs of some type from the object to the ground. At the time, I didn't pay much attention to what it was--I thought it was an accident--I saw the two persons. I didn't pay any attention to the two "legs?" The two "legs" were at the bottom of the object, slanted outwards to the ground. The object might have been about three and a half feet from the ground at that time. I just glanced at it.

Can't tell how long [I] saw object second time (the "close" time), possibly 20 seconds--just a guess--from time got out of car, glanced at object, ran from object, jumped over edge of hill, then got back to car and radio as object disappeared.

As my mike fell as I got out of car, at scene area, I heard about two or three loud "thumps," like someone possibly hammering or shutting a door or doors hard. These "thumps" were possibly a second or less apart. This was just before the roar. The persons were not seen when I drove to the scene area.

Just before Sgt. Chavez got to scene, I got my pen and drew a picture of the insignia on the object.”

One can see that Officer Zamora’s report has an authenticity about it, caused by his straight forward prose whereas the Texas story is infused with descriptive prose that reminds one of (science) fiction.

Officer Zamora was a splendid witness, despite what skeptics write about him and his account.

This is why the Socorro event of April 24, 1964 remains an intriguing UFO account, no matter how it is ultimately explained.


RR

8 Comments:

  • It appears that one of Zoam's comments a while back is accurate: Zamora saw the insignia AFTER his glasses fell off, not before. Do we have any detail on those glasses? I assume they were for driving, i.e., seeing beter at some distance. I use glasses for 100 yards and can see things very clearly. No glasses....100 yards is a real problem for accurate detail. Note, I am only talking about the disputed (red) marking on the side of the "craft" not the overall shape of the craft or its alleged flight characteristics.

    By Blogger Dominick, at Wednesday, August 06, 2014  

  • Yes, Dominick, a nice catch on your part.

    Other reports, paraphrasing Officer Zamora have him seeing the insignia before he lost his glasses, but this verbatim account in the Blue book files tells a different story.

    Hynek's account [Page 216/217] in his book [The Hynek UFO Report, Barnes & Noble, 1977] has Zamora seeing the insignia before he lost his glasses.

    This goes to the inherent glitches and errancies in UFO reports we get from usually credible sources.

    How can we really know what happened or was seen when such important details are botched?

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, August 06, 2014  

  • The 2009 Texas incident seems overly saturated with details and gives the impression of being fictive. However, without knowing more details about the witnesses, the location, it's hard to say whether or not this was an actual event or a hoax.
    Zamora's account though seems fairly dry and gives the impression of an actual event that took place. Although I still lean towards the college prank explanation. And if Zamora observed the symbol without his glasses, it leaves the question- how accurate did he depict it? I would guess fairly accurate, but has anyone been able to confirm which symbol he actually saw? Since there are 2 different ones floating around.

    By Blogger Daniel Hurd, at Wednesday, August 06, 2014  

  • Daniel"

    There seems to be a number of images purporting to be the insignia or symbol Officer Zamora saw and drew.

    And we can't get any confirmation as to which one is the real one.

    My conversation with Mrs. Zamora in 2006, where she told me the popular image (the arced arrow) was what her husband saw, is open to question as you might have been still maintaining the original plea to keep the real symbol hidden to discourage hoaxers from coming foward with a similar symbol...this long after 1964 too.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, August 06, 2014  

  • Rich:
    I had read your other reports on the Socorro symbol. You've put a lot of work and efforts into finding out the real insignia. Also, you're right, his wife may not have ever known the real symbol. So what is the next step in uncovering the actual symbol Lonnie viewed?

    By Blogger Daniel Hurd, at Wednesday, August 06, 2014  

  • Daniel:

    Our collegue, Spanish UFO researcher Jose Caravaca is working on something.

    His finding the James Fox version of the Socorro insignia may determine it to be the real one.

    We can then take it from there.

    But for now, we're in a miasma of confusion, which is almost always the case when it comes to UFOs.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, August 06, 2014  

  • "But for now, we're in a miasma of confusion, which is almost always the case when it comes to UFOs."

    Hahahahaa, so true Rich.

    By Blogger Daniel Hurd, at Wednesday, August 06, 2014  

  • The official military statement for Zamora is part 3rd person, part 1st person, not necessarily in full chronological order. As presented, when Zamora first saw the insignia is ambiguous. In various interviews, Zamora made it quite clear he was describing the marking when he was CLOSE (i.e., right after he got out of his car and started approaching object on foot) and BEFORE he TEMPORARILY lost his glasses (after running away and bumping car).

    Simple logic would also dictate that Zamora would first notice the insignia and have the clearest view when he was closest to the object and looking for details, not when he was running away, dust was flying, and his primary concern was not details of what it looked like but whether or not the thing would explode. It would no longer likely be a focus of his attention.

    Various quotes directly noting or suggesting that Zamora first saw the insignia at closest approach:

    Zamora interview with Walter Shrode on KSRC radio shortly after:

    SHRODE: And was there any kind of markings on it of any kind that you noticed?

    ZAMORA: Yes I did. Not from that far I didn’t see the markings [when he was driving up the road and first saw it from a distance].When I went up closer to it, I did see the markings.

    Albuquerque Journal, April 27, 1964:

    He eventually got within about 100 feet, and it was then Zamora said he noticed it was something out of the ordinary. "It had red lettering of some kind on the sides," Zamora said. He said the object was on the ground, supported by four girder-like legs. [Notice Zamora's cop-like observation of object details at closest approach.]

    AF Project Blue Book diagram and description: "Witness radioed he was leaving car to investigate.... Then saw insignia, heard roar, and thought thing was going to explode... Became frightened and ran to point 'F' [other side of car]..."

    By Blogger David Rudiak, at Thursday, August 07, 2014  

Post a Comment

<< Home