UFO Conjecture(s)

Wednesday, September 17, 2014

For Bruce Duensing (and a few others)

Two papers [PDFs]...

One about anomalous experiences (UFOs, ghosts, et cetera) -- why they occur and who experiences them:

Anomalous Experiences

And this -- Dealing with Astrology, UFOs, and Faces on Other Worlds: A Guide to Addressing Astronomical Pseudoscience in the Classroom:




  • Good papers overall. If media outlets were lacking in 1993, then we've hit the bottom of the well in 2014.

    As to the psychological aspects of the various fringe elements, I tend to be in general agreement.

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Wednesday, September 17, 2014  

  • I enjoyed reading this paper in regard to bio-neurological disorders being at the center of anomalous experiential perceptions versus the possibility of other influences being at play.
    There are many parallels in the term “spectrum disorders” for a large variety of biochemically induced hybridisation of symptoms leading to critical thinking disorders beyond simple behavioral performance problems.
    I think the only way to discern one from the other is on a case by case basis rather than use reductionism as the basis for a global theory as one size fits all cases although I have to say I am skeptical of my own suspicions and don’t posses any ideological belief system, although at times, I would appreciate one.
    My interest in the perception of ghost phenomenon includes the UFO in a reclassification or rethinking of the issues that go beyond surface appearances as a means of dividing one perceived form from another that lead to faux terms and self referential conclusions such as EVP’s are messages from the dead or that UFO’s represent extraterrestrials.
    In this I agree that modality, anticipation and even desire play a role in the relationship between the observer and the observed in organising perceptions but this goes much deeper than simple hallucination or misinterpretations. I suspect there is a natural yet unknown aspect of nature that operates as an intermediary transience in some cases. Beyond this, both UFO and other ghost phenomenon share common chief characteristics which the UFO community at large finds abhorrent as if I were spreading occultism into their unworkable beliefs. Many a natural phenomenon was thought at one time to be supernatural and many a scientific theory like spontaneous generation was later found to be based on appearances alone. All I am suggesting is we need a wider net and one that does not put the cart before the horse.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Wednesday, September 17, 2014  

  • BTW..some of the similarities between UFO and other categories of "ghost" images

    1. Caricatures painted in the sky as impossible flying craft or at ground level, the dead portrayed as being alive.
    2. Electromagnetic effects
    3. Physical evidence via a strange psychokinesis of physicality
    4. Extreme transience
    5. Semi-solid materiality
    6. Nonsensical behaviorism
    7. Mimicry
    8. Creates burns, scars, illnesses
    9. Ability to transit solid materials at will
    10. Manifests in wave forms of probability
    11. Prefers manifesting in remote or isolated localities
    12. Can synthesize vocalizations
    13. The presence of magnesium and \ or sulfurous residue
    14. Physiological and somatic effects, the sensation of freezing and \ or burning
    15. The accompaniment of vivid dreams

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Thursday, September 18, 2014  

  • The similarities are a stretch, Bruce...

    One example: "Can synthesize vocalizations"

    Another: Manifests in wave forms of probability

    And another: Mimicry

    You're trying hard to make a case, but I'm not seeing it.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, September 19, 2014  

  • On Mimicry:
    In both cases, the phenomenon has no coherently stable appearance or form. Both borrow semiotic associations or identifications that are best characterised as quantum information, which if you examine brain theory represents dream consciousness
    On Vocalisation:
    You either have creatures who are identically evolved with a larynx, tongue etc with the requisite biology ( physicality) to produce sound by the medium of atmosphere or you dont. If this is the case, you have the somewhat remote possibility of an extraterrestrial although the odds are stacked against this. Again, in brain theory we synthesize our inner voice..in the case of ITC, the same principle is involved, wherein synthesized voices are replicated on electronic media without a physical source.
    On Wave Forms
    Wave phenomenon is well known regarding UFOs. The same applies to other categories of so called “ghost “phenomenon wherein it appears after being absent due to the the disturbance of the physical environment, and \ or psychological factors that are deconstructive to individual stability much in the same manner as UFO phenomenon in a social milieu ( WW2, Cold War, Nuclear Threat ) They appear and vanish in accordance with the state of the environment in relation to the state of the observer.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Saturday, September 20, 2014  

  • BTW..
    I suspect neither dead individuals nor extraterrestrials are involved in either side of this. There are a series of unknown relationships all of which defy current thinking.
    I am sort of a minority of one in this. The whole of the scene is effected by a Catch 22 sort of feedback loop driven by appearances, which lead to arguments or contentions that are beside the point in my view.
    Again these are strong suspicions but no beliefs are set in this. I have no desire to evangelize the subject but rather suggest how the subject is characterized represents a straw dog.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Saturday, September 20, 2014  

  • Bruce...

    You've created a set of UFO criteria that is a crock...with all due respect, as they say.

    Your list above would appear to an outsider as a compilation from a UFO newbie or worse.

    It's a pile of intellectual crap, forgive me, but it is.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Saturday, September 20, 2014  

  • Your reaction is well...reactive and as an iconoclast why should I expect otherwise? Your opinion is one opinion and frankly I am not steered by opinion unless someone presents a convincing counter-theory. The whole of the scene is founded on opinion and so why should I expect otherwise? You can certainly work both sides against the middle which up to a point is useful. Where we disagree is the debate is over a straw dog, whereas we frame the issues differently.
    No offense taken.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Saturday, September 20, 2014  

  • On intellectual crap versus crap basis...
    1. The Kodachrome slides will resolve anything.
    2. Parsing decades old cases will resolve anything.Drilling them into the ground has been fruitless.
    3. Stereotyping the question in Extraterrestrial or not?
    4. Conspiracy theory.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Saturday, September 20, 2014  

  • Bruce....

    I am in no disagreement with you about the slides.

    We have lost Anthony Bragalia over them; he finding the slides more important than friendship or sensible research.

    As for UFOs, those things are so corrupted by silly shit no one, in their right mind, should continue spending time on the topic


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Saturday, September 20, 2014  

  • My interest is peripheral compared to other hobbies or interests and I think disagreement over speculations leading to resentment ridicule etc is ridiculous especially between friends.
    This subject is contentious over essentially zero substantiation of anything which resembles a good meal, family or a peaceful evening reading a good book.
    Go figure...

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Saturday, September 20, 2014  

  • Indeed Bruce...

    As for my slides postings, I brought up the matter and feel obligated to wrap it up if possible.

    Bragalia doesn't like that, even though he is out of the slides loop altogether.

    Go figure that too


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Saturday, September 20, 2014  

  • Did you say Bragalia is now lost to us?

    I am a bit surprised he never added his weight to all the recent debate over the McMinnville photos on this site and Kevin's site.

    If he is now concentrating solely on those elusive Roswell slides, he certainly needs to (or will do so very soon) take a long vacation from UFOs. Either that or risk losing his sanity. Many years ago the editor of FSR told me I could, like others he had known, lose my own sanity if I pursued the topic much longer!

    I gave it a short rest, but did eventually return.

    By Blogger cda, at Saturday, September 20, 2014  

  • Bragalia, aftet seeing Ross Evans comment in my slides post, since deleted, went ballistic.

    We are deciding if his posts with us - Bragalia's - will remain online.

    Tony seems to have forsaken good sense when it comes to those slides, even though he is, for all practical reasons, no longer involved with them.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Saturday, September 20, 2014  

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