UFO Conjecture(s)

Saturday, October 18, 2014

No extraterrestrial craft -- UFO, flying saucer, whatever -- would have a symbol on it.

We've provided these symbols as part of a much earlier posting here about UFO symbols.

My point in re-asserting the images is that I plan an upcoming piece on why visitors from outer space could not -- that is, could not! -- have symbols on any alleged craft they flew here.

The thesis is based on the human history of writing, which you can follow by first reading this article from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_writing

This means that Lonnie Zamora's craft could not have been an extraterrestrial craft, a point I've made many times previously.

(The supposed symbol -- no matter which one is the real one -- is the smoking gun that defuses any argument for Socorro being an alien event.)

RR

24 Comments:

  • do not understand why not? Does this statement mean aliens would not develop a written language or symbolism?

    By Blogger hrdcore, at Saturday, October 18, 2014  

  • Yes, hrdcore...

    In the way that our writing (and symbols) evolved.....something unique to Earth.

    An alien mode of "written communication" would be totally unlike anything on Earth.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Saturday, October 18, 2014  

  • do not understand why not? Does this statement mean aliens would not develop a written language or symbolism?

    By Blogger hrdcore, at Saturday, October 18, 2014  

  • still do not understand why. I can see Humans not understanding what the meanings would be, due lack of reference. But would think intelligence creatures would need and use some form of written communications, some way to express ideas beyond their own ability. (like are ability to speak or sign)

    By Blogger hrdcore, at Saturday, October 18, 2014  

  • Not in the same way as we humans have.

    Read the Wikipedia article. It will tell you why.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Saturday, October 18, 2014  

  • read articular and still do not see a reason why another race could not develop a written language. A future race of humans may no longer need a written one. But still find it hard to believe none would be used. symbolism is a media to convey ideas. I find it hard to believe it could not be a tool they would use.

    By Blogger hrdcore, at Saturday, October 18, 2014  

  • Of course there could be a kind of "communication" but it would not be like anything we'd understand.

    The evolutionary aspect of human linguistics and writing derived from it precludes another species from outside the Earth replicating anything recognizable to us.

    I'll be presenting a full "thesis" upcoming.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Saturday, October 18, 2014  

  • A shared database of symbols to retrieve information seems necessary although I could agree that since the premise is intraspecies communication a lot of what forms and construction it would take on would depend on biology which suggests a need to have a shared one in order to grasp what is written.

    In our case opposing thumbs, brain architecture, binocular vision and a developed memory. A cat or a horse cannot read and so an alien language whose purpose would be to transfer information to us is extremely unlikely for the same reasons.
    Any extraterrestrial language would require the use of a triad of semiotics to translate them.

    I once used the model of dolphin communications to suggest an extraterrestrial model that requires no written language. Three dimensional images produced by sound require no intermediary script and as an aside, sound is used as a defense and attack system without the need for arms or legs. They simply stun their victims into a stupor. What’s interesting is the use of pictographs or images of sound rather than words that is used to translate the dolphin language as a codex.

    Even if “spooky action at a distance” applied in a quantum manner where you could retrieve information without a written script comparable to remote viewing, ESP, precognition etc you still need a shared database in memory that matches what’s retrieved otherwise you end up with a received cipher that requires decryption if you are outside of the species who sent it.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Sunday, October 19, 2014  

  • ``Of course there could be a kind of "communication" but it would not be like anything we'd understand.``

    I think you might want to be more clear about what it is you're arguing, then. If you look at those Socorro symbols, do you find them 'understandable'?

    Or are you suggesting that the METHOD (a single point moving on a plane-like surface) itself would only occur within human societies?

    By Blogger Parakletos, at Sunday, October 19, 2014  

  • Parakletos...

    Let's not make this complicated.

    I'm saying that, as Bruce suggests, we wouls find communication by "aliens" to be like that of dolphins or some other Earth species: undecipherable.

    The Socorro symbol is an Earth-made symbol.

    (Have you been following my notes about Socorro all these years or not?)

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, October 19, 2014  

  • (Have you been following my notes about Socorro all these years or not?)

    You don't seem to recognize that you're making a one-off 'miracle claim'.

    And again -- you hinge on this word 'undecipherable' as though you have deciphered the Socorro symbols. Have you?

    By Blogger Parakletos, at Sunday, October 19, 2014  

  • ``From paintings and photographs to coins and credit cards, we are constantly surrounded by symbolic artifacts. The mental representation of symbols -- objects that arbitrarily represent other objects -- ultimately affords the development of language, and certainly played a decisive role in the evolution of our hominid ancestors. Can other animal species also comprehend and use symbols? New evidence demonstrates symbolic reasoning in tufted capuchin monkeys.``

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080610212404.htm

    Now I am fairly certain you're not going to claim that these monkeys learned this from humans....

    By Blogger Parakletos, at Sunday, October 19, 2014  

  • I'll wait to read your thesis before disagreeing :-)

    Back to symbols on craft, I always wondered why they were only seen on a few occasions. I would've expected them to be seen on all or none of the sighted craft.

    The Ummo symbol in your image is from a known hoax, and I've always been suspicious of cases where symbols are seen.

    My little theory for why there are generally no symbols is that it's possible the outside of these craft have to be completely smooth (no rivets or welding are ever reported, and exhausts are rare) for them to fly, thus precluding the use of paint or stickers that might otherwise blemish the metallic surface. If this is so, it would also provide some clues as to the means of propulsion the craft use. Paint might change the local electrical conductivity and affect the magnetic field, which might create an imbalance of some sort in the propulsion system.

    But I do look forward to reading how you justify your theory, Rich.

    By Blogger Anonymous Astronomer, at Sunday, October 19, 2014  

  • Parakletos...

    I get your point, but it is irrelevant, about the monkeys.

    Those animals were and are part of the Earth's unique evolutionary milieu.

    (I'll elaborate when I post my "thesis.")

    As for Socorro, I've presented the computer symbols used by Hughes' engineers on the prototypical helicopters and aircraft they built. Many very similar to Socorro's symbol.

    You can find my notes via Google or by accessing the postings early on here and at the RRRGroup blog.

    Others have determined that the symbol derives from Hughes' business card (Matt Gilleece) or from the paper company logo that the Indiana University engineer says was on a balloon that ended up, during a cross-country flight, in Socorro (as he read in a magazine in the late 1960s).

    The Socorro symbol, both of them, are fraught with human configurations.

    An alien culture, with a totally different evolutionary run, would have nothing near to what humans have endured and thus they would develop a mode of communication unique to their home planet.

    If, for some reason, their planet developed in the same way as the Earth -- the odds for that being astronomical (no pun)-- then you'd have a case.

    Otherwise, you're hoping against hope that alien culture and Earth culture are so much alike that the aliens would communicate like us (or your capuchin monkeys).

    Read Darwin, see the Wikipedia piece I've linked, and be sensible, rational.

    Extraterrestrials would not have similarities to us -- the Alien Astronaut hypothesis.

    If they do, then we've been seeded, but that's a whole other topic.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, October 19, 2014  

  • AA:

    You make some good points, a few touched on here a short while back.

    The linguistic/writing evolution for humans is complex, and as brilliant as I think I am, my suggestion will have to be plotted carefully, as I see persons are waiting to pounce.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, October 19, 2014  

  • ``Read Darwin, see the Wikipedia piece I've linked, and be sensible, rational.

    Extraterrestrials would not have similarities to us -- the Alien Astronaut hypothesis.

    If they do, then we've been seeded, but that's a whole other topic.
    ``

    I am being sensible and rational. If I didn't find your comment so laughable, I might be offended at the suggestion otherwise.

    I'll leave you be to your theology masquerading as epistemology. And I never suggested that every alien would communicate in such a way -- presuming there are more than one kind visiting. But it is certainly not unreasonable to think that there is an alien species which does use writing and 'words'. Those monkeys have an INNATE ability to use symbolic language. And all you're doing -- like a typical religious-person -- is pushing the goalposts out further. Now it's not just humans....it's apes and monkeys....wait....no.....it's all creatures on earth.... What's next? All creatures from our solar system? Galaxy?

    Science has burst this tendency of humans to see themselves as the center of the universe time after time. But in this one instance....you think we're unique... Nonsense.

    By Blogger Parakletos, at Sunday, October 19, 2014  

  • Parakletos:

    Of course we're unique, by virtue of our evolutionary track.

    But existence isn't unique and I haven't even been close to suggesting that.

    Humans (Earthians) are one of many kinds of life-forms.

    An alien culture would also be unique but in ways totally different than ours.

    As for the "innate ability" of monkeys to use symbolic language, the innate part is questionable.

    Try to stick to the nuances of my conjecture.

    Sure, an extraterrestrial race might have writing and language but the expression of both would be determined by their evolutionary progression.

    And if that progression followed that of Earth, highly unlikely, you might get symbols and speech similar to humans/us.

    That's the gist of my point: no extraterrestrial culture or life-form would evolve as we have and thus they would have linguistic or writing like ours.

    That would be "miraculous."

    So calm down, read more, and don't take my slurs about your thinking as assaults.

    They're merely observations over the years I've known you.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, October 19, 2014  

  • ``Sure, an extraterrestrial race might have writing and language but the expression of both would be determined by their evolutionary progression.

    And if that progression followed that of Earth, highly unlikely, you might get symbols and speech similar to humans/us.

    That's the gist of my point: no extraterrestrial culture or life-form would evolve as we have and thus they would have linguistic or writing like ours.``

    Pretty soon, you're going to be arguing for more senses than the ones we have -- presumably used by these hypothetical aliens...

    Space is a very big place. And I am not buying your argument that 'monkeys can do it because they're from earth too' argument. You're just taking a specious argument to a much grander scale -- pushing it out further and further in some desperate need for identity.

    It seems far more reasonable to me that -- given the enormity of space -- there would be all sorts of forms of communications found among life. Some of it would be recognizable to us on Earth. Some would not.

    And you're arguing that if one of them makes it here, they're in the 'some would not' category by default.

    By Blogger Parakletos, at Sunday, October 19, 2014  

  • ``So calm down, read more, and don't take my slurs about your thinking as assaults.

    They're merely observations over the years I've known you.``

    I did quite well in my logic classes. And I am telling you, your logic here is faulty. You might have the workings of a probability (as opposed to certainty) argument, but even that is suspect given that we only really have knowledge of 1 out of 1 planets with life on it. It's extremely difficult to extrapolate from such conditions, yet you're doing it with certainty.

    But it's your way. And 'in all the years I have known YOU', I know you're not about to change.

    By Blogger Parakletos, at Sunday, October 19, 2014  

  • ``That's the gist of my point: no extraterrestrial culture or life-form would evolve as we have and thus they would have linguistic or writing like ours.

    That would be "miraculous."``

    And now you're hinging on 'like'. I agree that it would be 'miraculous' if the writing itself was UNDERSTANDABLE by humans. But I disagree entirely that written words and symbols -- as I described about a point moving across a plane-like surface -- are uniquely human. They are simply strokes of an appendage -- and I would expect much of that life out there to have appendages of some number (likely an even number) or other.

    By Blogger Parakletos, at Sunday, October 19, 2014  

  • Ah, Parakletos...

    You seem to have dipped in my direction.

    Anyway, the topic is rife for debate, as you've proven.

    And as dopey as you sometimes are, I remain in awe of your philosophical fortitude, and love you still.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, October 19, 2014  

  • ``And as dopey as you sometimes are, I remain in awe of your philosophical fortitude, and love you still.``

    Well if that wasn't just.....disarming.... =P

    By Blogger Parakletos, at Sunday, October 19, 2014  

  • Why do we mark our own aircraft? Because we have X amount of countries flying them and we can identify one country's craft from another. Do you have the same issue navigating in light years where the odds of someone recognizing your craft's designation is zero? The symbol would tell them nothing. Do all planets divide themselves into tribal countries on a single planet? A more sophisticated identification system that is internal ( software driven ) makes more sense to tell one craft from another if you have several. Painting symbols on a craft seems primitive...for a civilization centuries advanced from us.

    Another basic question is the intent of any visible language. That is to say if it is intended for communication and designed to be understood by another species which then means you have to know a great deal about to whom you are communicating with. Do they read left to right, up to down, down to up? Then you have to keep in mind how they make sound to create pronunciations, local "colloquialisms" and\or qualifiers that are attuned to comparable behaviors that arise in their environment lest you create an unintentional mistranslated message. Mathematics if they live in the same dimensional environment makes more sense and geometric symbols would make this
    fairly universal but nearly impossible to make a sentence of it.That is if they use a linear language..but then you run into even more complex issues. What symbol in the string is the qualifier, which is a verb, which is the noun? This seems to me very similar to issues we have right here with many languages..some words of which have no translatable equivalence.
    I have my own views on this but I will wait for your thesis.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Sunday, October 19, 2014  

  • You raise interesting points, Bruce.

    A common sense evaluation of modus or purpose strikes at an explanation but does anything to do with UFOs make (common) sense?

    The few odd reports I added recently tell us that something erratically strange seems to be at the core of the phenomenon, either by witnesses or by the phenomenon itself.

    In Teilhard de Chadin's cosmology of the (Jesus) Universe, one might conclude that the things seen are a kind of medical or mental fluke and we are normal cells in the Body of Christ (Teilhard) coping with the "illness" or viral intrusions.

    The matter is complex, and I'd like to see your views, as long as you keep them in Hemingwayesque style, and not your usual Joycian vocabulary.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, October 19, 2014  

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