UFO Conjecture(s)

Tuesday, March 10, 2015

One question (for now) to the Roswell "sliders"

How do we know, for sure, that the two slides of the "alien body" were separated from the batch of other slides in the alleged Bernerd/Hilda Ray collection, and placed in a hidden cache in a trunk found at the Ray home?

The 400 (plus two?) slides were held by the finder for ten years, in a garage, unscrutinized or deemed interesting until recently.

What proof do the Roswell sliders have that the two "body" photos were separate and apart from the rest?

That is, the woman who found them and held them provided provenance for the two slides being apart and unique?

RR

30 Comments:

  • Good series of questions Rich.

    I've read different versions as to how the two slides were separated, in a envelope, wrapped in some other material.

    Also, photos found in an attic or garage? And I'm curious as who actually discovered the cache as this seems to be somewhat confusing.

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Tuesday, March 10, 2015  

  • Yes, Tim...

    How the slides were held and for how long is important.

    Why didn't someone think the body slides were significant when they first saw them?

    And how do we know that the two body slides were independently wrapped?

    Who was in on the rediscovery of the 400 slides?

    It's a matter of provenance as I keep griping about, but I'm not hearing and answers.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Tuesday, March 10, 2015  

  • I posted a "loose" theory on my blog concerning the possibility that the slides were viewed to various friends and family back in the 1950s and 1960s.

    It only stands to reason that someone went through the trouble and expense to mount the photos in a slide format...meaning that they were meant to be viewed...and were viewed.

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Tuesday, March 10, 2015  

  • And no one asked, "What the hell is that, a mummy? A deformed baby?, A thing from another world?"

    Odd that no one until 2012 or 2013 took notice of the two weird slides.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Tuesday, March 10, 2015  

  • Perhaps they were not weird back then as there was some degree of context supplied to the slides that appropriately identified the subjects and shown only as a morbid curiosity.

    But then again, this story is weird to begin with.

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Tuesday, March 10, 2015  

  • Maybe I'm wrong, but is it possible that they didn't find the 2 slides of the body until 2012? Maybe they saw the 40+ other slides in the box, and decided to keep them, looking through them 10 years later and finding the 2 slides hidden from the rest? Not trying to give the Roswell sliders an out here- but that is a possibility right?

    By Blogger Daniel Hurd, at Tuesday, March 10, 2015  

  • Daniel:

    A possibility, a slim one but a possibility, always.

    The point was Tim indicating that the slides were prepped for viewing and that is what one would think that the body slides were viewed in the batch.

    That aside, what were the slides sitting in a garage for 10 years, with allegedly two of them in a special wrapping, and those uniquely wrapped slides not looked at or examined before now?

    The devil's in the details, Dan, and nuance in research is everything as Conan Doyle taught us with his Sherlock Holmes tales.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Tuesday, March 10, 2015  

  • Hi, I have already said this a long time ago. If you take away the fact that these two slides were separated from the rest of the photos, it completely changes the perspective of this case, that is to say that there is no mystery. You are obliged to believe a woman who was alone when she discovered the photos.You may not rely on a single testimony, we need facts. To believe is not to know, do not forget it.

    By Blogger fridu, at Tuesday, March 10, 2015  

  • My great grandmother died in a small town in 1951. While doing family history in about 2002, I visited the unofficial town historian of that town and she revealed that she had a box of family photos that had been retrieved from under my great grandmother's bed in her abandoned house. I do not know when they were taken, how long the historian had kept them, or anything like that. I did not ask the town historian for proof that these were my relatives, or to sign an affidavit that her story was true. Nor do I ask for proof of anything when I buy junk at a garage sale. I predict that these alien slides will not be provable as real, nor will they be disproven. I think that what provenance does exist about these slides
    is very interesting because it roughly fits with either 1947 Roswell or 1948 Aztec.

    By Blogger charles tromblee, at Tuesday, March 10, 2015  

  • I agree with the details. I too want answers to all those questions. Some other things that interest me- what kind of box were the slides housed in? Wooden? Cardboard? Plastic? That could tell us a couple things. Were the slides ever moved from one storage container to another?
    Why did they deem these slides interesting enough to keep, yet not enough to go through them until years later?
    Plus, obviously they were set for viewing as the outer sleeves suggest- someone else must have seen these slides in the past.
    I don't know if there is any way to tell, but if they were prepped for viewing in the batch- is there any chronological order to a batch? If they actually belong to that supposed group of slides.

    Too many questions and zero answers.

    By Blogger Daniel Hurd, at Tuesday, March 10, 2015  

  • Yes, it roughly fits into either Roswell and/or Aztec, yet the same can be said of Kenneth Arnold's sightings or anything of importance (political or geopolitical) for that time period.

    I believe for details need to be fleshed out as far as to any specific connections.

    Perhaps more context will be shown when the rest of the slides or shown, if they are shown at all.

    This still does not answer as to proof as to who took them and as Terry the Censor commented on my blog...who processed the photos.

    A big canyon to jump, unless Dew and company are waiting to provide these details on the 5th of May.

    A side note, but relevant to the conversation: Tom Tulien provided a comment on my blog concerning a trip that he and Steven Greer had made to Mexico back in the 1990s. Greer apparently had purchased the "exoskeleton" of an alien only to later find out that it was the cranium of a shark.

    I've not personally heard this story, though others may well have. I've asked Tom if he might provide details. Hopefully, he respond or I'll ask via email.

    It appears that things are not always what they may seem.

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Tuesday, March 10, 2015  

  • I don't think the question is if this is a confabulated narrative at this point as there are more holes in it than substance.
    And so the question seems to be what is the actual back story?
    While your question is a good one somewhat related to the chain of custody, it is unanswerable. What is it's utility?
    Unfortunately no answers can be forced from the promoters and the intended vagueness regarding all this will remain, which serves to keep the fence sitters and believers permanently suspended.
    In the larger context, pulling back from delving into ( once again) minutia within a half century old rumor, I doubt any "justice" will be served to either side.
    I think the community of participants is just nailing the coffin shut from the inside while kicking a dead horse.
    Another prolonged detour that serves no purpose other than to have something to gab about since most cannot think of anything new or insightful to say about the actual phenomenon in present terms.
    The discovery of holes, or more holes ( more accurately) in the narrative is just back filling an empty space....that leads nowhere.
    Again we have personalities as the subject rather than the phenomenon all revolving around ancient history that's already been largely discredited.
    it seems to be the only game in town because it is.

    By Blogger Bruce Duensing, at Wednesday, March 11, 2015  

  • Very well said, Bruce Duensing.

    (I can only hope that his thoughts are given serious consideration by the true believers.)

    By Blogger Loki, at Wednesday, March 11, 2015  

  • Rich wrote:
    "The devil's in the details, Dan, and nuance in research is everything"

    Rich,
    I agree, so what are the odds of both the creature in the slides and the creature in the Alien Autopsy not having any teeth?

    Also for all who keep insisting that the AA is a hoax, I'd like to remind you that there's not a scrap of hard evidence for that belief.

    The UFO community made a serious mistake by not giving the AA the "nuance" it deserved.
    They're about to make the same mistake with the Kodak slides.
    Ed

    By Blogger edward gehrman, at Wednesday, March 11, 2015  

  • Ed...

    I luv ya, but you've got to get over the AA thing, just as the rest of us have to get over the Roswell thing.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, March 11, 2015  

  • RR-

    I'm still trying to get over the whole cancellation of "Firefly" thing.

    ...Shiny...

    By Blogger Loki, at Wednesday, March 11, 2015  

  • Loki:

    We're all, including The Big Bang Theory characters, are trying to get over the demise of Firefly.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, March 11, 2015  

  • RR-

    Bazinga!

    By Blogger Loki, at Wednesday, March 11, 2015  

  • I hope Ed Gehrman is not suggesting that the slides depict the same being as in the alien autopsy film, or that both beings arrived on earth in the same craft.

    Since one being has 6 fingers and the other has 4, I think we can assume they are not from the same planet, and therefore did not arrive in the same craft.

    The only way out is if the said craft did a tour of some distant solar system and picked up two ETs, each from a different planet. That way it would, just, be possible for the two 'beings' to have crash-landed on earth in the same craft.

    Oh, by the way, before I forget: didn't Stan Friedman suggest two separate craft crashed that day? Silly me, but that is the obvious answer to the 4- and 6-finger ETs.

    Phew!

    By Blogger cda, at Wednesday, March 11, 2015  

  • Or, perhaps two of the fingers broke off the same mannequin...

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Wednesday, March 11, 2015  

  • RR-

    After reading Hasting's careful evaluation:

    "I then asked Maussan whether he thought that Carey and Schmitt had really done sufficient due diligence on the matter. I copied Tom Carey on the message. The next day, an obviously annoyed Carey responded to me and agreed that the placard “holds the key” to the identity of the body, adding that he and Don Schmitt had been trying to find someone to read the sign, using various filters and techniques. Despite that, said Carey, “not a single word” had been deciphered on the placard thus far."

    "Given Carey’s non-response to my questions and suggestions, I can only assume that he will ignore my advice. That’s his prerogative, but when this whole affair blows up in his face—after the “alien” is identified as a human mummy, as I believe will eventually happen—Carey will not be able to honestly claim that he and his associates pursued every available avenue to identify the text on the placard."

    ...we must conclude that creative marketing genius Tom Carey (TCarey1947@aol.com)
    behind the creation of "The Roswell Dream Team" will be eager to clear the air, right?

    By Blogger Loki, at Wednesday, March 11, 2015  

  • CDA said:
    "I hope Ed Gehrman is not suggesting that the slides depict the same being as in the alien autopsy film, or that both beings arrived on earth in the same craft."
    No, while it is clear that they are not the exact same creatures, they certainly are similar. Yes I think they arrived in the same type of craft.

    cda said:
    "Since one being has 6 fingers and the other has 4, I think we can assume they are not from the same planet, and therefore did not arrive in the same craft."

    I don't think the number of fingers counted is relevant at this time. The creatures came from this planet. The are evolved monotremes, the first mammals. They have the ability to send electronic impulses via the cells on their skin.
    Haven't you read any of my
    speculations? You imply the AA is a hoax. Prove that it is.

    cda said:

    "The only way out is if the said craft did a tour of some distant solar system and picked up two ETs, each from a different planet. That way it would, just, be possible for the two 'beings' to have crash-landed on earth in the same craft."

    Since this isn't a possibility, why don't we discuss the slides and the AA in a serious way?

    This is a serious question to you or anyone: How would you feel if you knew that we share the earth with an advanced civilization millions of years older than us,
    and all that implies?
    Ed

    By Blogger edward gehrman, at Wednesday, March 11, 2015  

  • Ed:

    I've allowed your comment as it responds to CDA's, but that's it.

    I don't want to go off on the AA tangent here.

    My posting is pertinent to one point about the Kodak slides and you would take us elsewhere.

    So the AA tangent ends here.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, March 11, 2015  

  • Now I've seen Michael Mu, Rudiak, and Gehrman try to use slides comment sections to promote their unrelated and nutty pet theories. Each time the blogger has deleted comments (or threatened to).

    I predict we'll see a lot more of this type of hijacking if we don't get fresh topics between now and May 5.

    By Blogger Terry the Censor, at Thursday, March 12, 2015  

  • RR:

    Thanks for saving me from a very awkward position, partly caused by my own lack of understanding.

    By Blogger cda, at Thursday, March 12, 2015  

  • Yes I am taking the word of my friend's sister about the two body slides being separated from the rest of the collection. Her version of the story is that she didn't look closely at the slides at first (around 1998) but thought they looked interesting so she kept them. She didn't take the time to look closely at the collection again until around 2008. The bottom of the box started to come apart and as she moved it she noticed two other slides, wrapped separately, tucked flat under the rest of the slides which were slotted into the slide box normally. She unwrapped them and took a closer look at them and thought they looked very unusual. She wasn't alarmed but discussed the collection with her brother who eventually scanned them properly. He didn't tell me about the collection until mid-2012 (as memory serves). She had no incentive to lie so far as I can tell.

    By Blogger SlideBox Media, at Thursday, March 12, 2015  

  • Thank you Adam...

    That clarifies the matter, somewhat or mostly.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, March 12, 2015  

  • What proof do we have that the images on the 1947 era slide film were made at that time?

    Photographic film can be stored for years and still accept images when exposed to light, if the film is stored properly.

    So who is to say that the images were made in 2014 and not 1947?

    Just asking what others should be thinking.

    By Blogger rroffel, at Friday, March 13, 2015  

  • rroffel...

    I think your query has been addressed at Kevin Randle's blog and other UFO web-sites.

    The matter of the slides' dating was debated a week or so ago, all over the place.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, March 13, 2015  

  • Why cannot Adam (if that is his real name) call himself Adam?

    If this in not his real name when are we, the public, going to be informed of his real name? After all, he is supposed to be the discoverer, or presenter, of the first ever confirmation of intelligent life outside planet earth. But maybe this is not something for which he desires publicity. Ha!

    'Slide Box Media'. What an appropriate name! Just another anonymous personality in this never-ending rigmarole of the 'Roswell slides'.

    People can draw their own conclusions.

    By Blogger cda, at Saturday, March 14, 2015  

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