UFO Conjecture(s)

Thursday, May 07, 2015

It really is time to move on…

A few comments here wonder where Anthony Bragalia is?

He’s fine and happy with the May 5th event.

He’s also had some input at Kevin Randle’s blog.

But most in the UFO community who’ve followed this slides story for about two years have had enough; the May 5th debacle clinching the matter for them, maybe once and for all time.

Nothing new was offered at the Mexican showing, obviously, and the show itself was laggardly and self-referencing for Tom Carey and Don Schmitt, who seemed to use the venue for an announcement of a new Roswell book they’re planning.

The coda of the presentation – those Kodachrome slides of an odd body-figure -- still resonates with some of the UFO/Roswell contingent, but sensible people have moved away and on, knowing that the body doesn’t prove alien visitation of the Earth or that the Roswell incident was an ET craft accident.

Suffused, myself, with the Bernerd and Hilda Ray aspect of the story, I’m not only disappointed but chagrinned: the Ray scenario was a trough of fluff.

There will remain chards of comments and postings about the Cinco de Mayo affair for a while yet, but we (my readers here) should truly drop the matter.

It took us nowhere and provides nothing to make Roswell relevant or offers any explanation of UFOs.

RR

38 Comments:

  • Amen to that!!

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • What happened to the issue of showing strong evidence of a link between the Rays and the Eisenhowers?

    What about the army blanket? Where is the analysis of 1940s-era military blankets and the blanket that lil' ol' Rozzy is on?

    Why did none of the DT ever think about that other head behind the body, the one with the hair, muzzle, teeth etc?

    Did it not occur - to any of the DT - that this extra head is strong evidence of some sort of historical display of oddities?

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • Yes RR...you are right! Its time to move and to accept that the Roswell Slides showing an alien Visitor.

    Why i have change my opinion you ask? Because ancient Mummys have no black Eyes and they have NOSE!

    The Being on the Roswell Slides have no Nose and have black Eyes!

    So http://cdn.meme.am/instances/25103267.jpg

    By Blogger Michael Mu, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • Somewhere I read someone suggesting that the partial human figure that appears standing up in the slide might be a woman in military clothes.

    Looking at the skirt, lower abdomen and sleeve of that figure, my bet it's that she's a nun and the image was taken at a museum or similar venue.

    By Blogger Patricio Abusleme, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • I get the feeling we're not really moving on.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • I think the potential connection between Silas Newton and H.Blair Ray is still interesting.

    By Blogger Zak McKracken, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • Me too, Zak.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • What is that connection? Where is the evidence for it?

    Lance

    By Blogger Lance, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • It's tenuous at best Lance, from a slight note that Jose Caravaca provided a while back, which Rudiak has dismissed as nonsense, maybe rightfully.

    But it's a little harmless project to see if there is an association in fact.

    We won't be holding a presentation in Mexico or anywhere else to gull the public as if we have something substantial or worthwhile.

    Again, it's a minor obsession with me (and maybe Zak and Nick too).

    Don't get worked up about it.

    It's ufological graffiti.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • Two points in the spirit of almost moving on:

    1. Has anyone else had an urge this week to go out for some Mexican food?

    2. My exclusive research has led me to posit that the gorilla head/mummy display case slides were actually taken in Professor Mike Swords basement personal collection of cryptotrash:

    http://thebiggeststudy.blogspot.com/2015_02_01_archive.html

    ...likely by his BFF Don Schmitt:

    http://thebiggeststudy.blogspot.com/2014/10/just-social-note.html

    ...now only if we knew a professional documentary filmmaker we could start our own world-changing expose' event!!!

    By Blogger Loki, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • This was like approaching a traffic accident on the side of the highway. Flares are out, tow truck in place, and the cops directing traffic: keep moving, nothing to see here...

    On to the next crap fest...

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • Sure, sure, time to move on, time to forget any accountability, forget any lessons that could be extracted from this protracted and shameful affair, time to prime the pump for the next set of ridiculous clams to be paraded out, lipsticked, and sold with vindictive diatribes against any skepticism and doubt. The cries for skeptics to "leave the slides alone" until May 5th are quickly being replaced with "Move along, move along." I have to say, this thing has turned out to be a litmus test for the credulity, critical thinking skills, and integrity of the participants. There is a lot to be pondered and turned over, not forgotten or swept under the rug. Will it? I have to wonder.

    By Blogger Ricky Poole, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • Nick's right, a lot was promised that wasn't delivered. Don Schmitt likened it to Superman: the Movie, indicating we were going to be wowed,
    "You'll believe a man can fly!"

    By Blogger Curt Collins, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • Ricky:

    Yes, scrutiny of the affair from beginning to end is okay with me and should continue, but in the context of better things to contemplate.

    We can't stay mired in this mess forever. That would be a waste of time and effort in the search for the explanation of the UFO enigma.

    Yes, looking for complicity in the farce and what it cost legitimate UFO aficionados should go on, but not to the point of psychotic obsession.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • RR,

    The only "psychotic obsession" I have seen in this has been the DT two year investigation of a pair of unremarkable slides depicting a mummy in an obvious museum setting.

    By Blogger Ricky Poole, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • Ah Heck,

    Nick told me this was a proven and documented fact but that the research was ongoing and results would be released later.

    By Blogger Lance, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • Rich, true we should not totally obsess, but we should not reward maladaptive behaviors. What?, "Better luck next time guys."

    I propose that we put an astrik(*) by the names of Dew, Carey, Schmitt, and Bragalia as a means of a scarlet letter.

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • Ricky......Hahaha, yes.

    Lance:

    Nick has better info than I do, and both of us have pursued FBI documents to cement a connection between Newton and Ray, Nick better at that than me obviously.

    Nick has found things.

    I have zeroed in on Hilda Ray but that is tangential I think.

    Nick can do a book on the matter whereas I'd just fritter it away here.

    So pay attention to what Nick says.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • Ha-okay-- he said you were the one with the info...

    Lance

    By Blogger Lance, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • Tim:

    I understand Jewish hunters seeking out participants in the Holocaust still.

    But to keep after the May 5th guys seems silly, although they deserve opprobrium for their folly and lack of proper research and presentation of what they found (those slides).

    Yet, to do more or think long on their "misdeed(s)" appears futile and wasteful of intellect and talent.

    But we're all sore and angry at being gulled, so I understand the psychological need (as do you) for resolution (or closure as the rabble has it).

    I found the presentation to be lame, and didn't spend a sou to see it, so I'm not as pissed as some.

    But I have spent (as we all know) a lot of time posting about the slides and their possible import.

    I did this as my friend, Tony Bragalia, insisted that the body in the slides was certainly unearthly.

    That it isn't, according to most, irks but there is no conclusive denouement yet about the alien or mummy explanation.

    However, I have come not to care very much and want to delve into other matters relevant to the UFO enigma (perhaps) and some of the UFO sightings that have persisted to nag my curiosity.

    The May 5th thing and those slides are but a memory (almost) for me.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • Lance:

    I have some info, but after being burned by a hoaxed court document, I'm cautious about presenting anything yet.

    Nick has much that I do not have, and has pointed me in proper directions, but I think he's thinking long-term, where he can do a book, when I falter at making a case, as Rudiak expects.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • Now now, Loki. As Curt Collins said, "a double standard is still a standard" ;-)
    http://saucerbeer.tumblr.com/post/117536877383/the-public-reveal-of-the-roswell-alien-slides

    By Blogger Timothy Brigham, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • To Adam Dew, Slidebox Media, or anyone "in the know"...

    We were told multiple times for months now that once the May 5th presentation was done there would truly be released the high resolution scans that were done of the two slides. When these digital scans were done, these were likely made each with a file size of hundreds of megabytes or even gigabytes for EACH scan per slide. It is now two days after this May 5th presentation, and the public needs to know what high resolution scans are you going to release???

    Anything less than 20 megabyte file size for each slide is just another scam to perpetrate on the interested public. It's time to release the true high resolution scans as seemingly promised to the public for months now. At least a 100 megabyte file size per slide would be reasonable, as this can be easily downloaded for free as a torrent.

    Where are the REAL HIGH RESOLUTION SCANS???

    Anything less than a 20 megabyte scan per slide is "a fraud" and slap in our face based on what was "promised". We need the real unmodified high resolution scans or at least this 20mb minimum size WITH NO MODIFICATIONS or ALTERATIONS from the original 2 slides.

    I'll "move-on" once you (Adam Dew, Slidebox Media, and Mexico Slide Team) keep that promise...

    By Blogger eBikesRC, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • Rich:

    Since we are now in the post mortem phase, I would have to say this little “Roswell Slide” episode has worked out rather well for all concerned. By that I mean that almost everyone got what mattered most to them out of the case (with one exception).

    For those of us who think of ourselves as active, skeptical, investigators or researchers (I put myself and probably Nick Redfern in that category) we got the emotional payoff that all researchers seek: we got to know something before anyone else knew it (even if for only a brief period) and then gave that knowledge away.

    The pseudoskeptics/debunkers/deniers in the crowd (Lance, Gilles, Zoam, CDA) probably made out the best of anyone in that they got a cheap win—they got to be right without having to be very smart. Their payoff is engorgement of their already narcissistic sense of self worth. They get to spike the ball in the end zone and do their victory dances. They get the unadulterated shots of endorphins that come from realizing that they are morally superior to someone else—hell, probably everyone else! Etc., etc……

    For the blogmeisters (Kevin and Rich) you guys got large surges in your blog site traffic. New blog posters abound. That has to be seen as a net positive.

    Carey, Schmitt, and Adam Dew each got their promised 15 minutes of fame.

    Only Jaime Maussan (if he is to be believed) was left standing without a chair after the music stopped—he claims to have lost $100,000. I guess we can’t all be winners.

    Judged by the social utility criterion (“the greatest good for the greatest number”) this was a big win. (Or, as Gilles would say, "That's UFOlogy!)

    By Blogger Larry, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • Thanks, Larry...

    That's a nice spin.

    And I have to agree.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • As for the easy win part, a disappointment.

    I, for one, really thought they might be holding an Ace or two...

    Not sure if they were bluffing, or just don't know the game.

    By Blogger Curt Collins, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • P.S.

    I agree with Patricio Abusleme. The garb that the woman in the background of the picture is wearing seems to be very very similar to a certain kind of nun's habit that I have seen in the past. (I can't remember exactly where, but one of the Andean countries would be a reasonable guess.)

    By Blogger Larry, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • I don't know if this has been clarified or not but the head in the background (the other display) is that of a primate, possibly a baboon or gorilla.

    Sorry I know we are supposed to be moving on.... :)

    By Blogger Daniel Hurd, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • Yah, Daniel, there are some niggling questions that need to be answered or should be.

    But they shouldn't absorb us inordinately, to the detriment of other UFO issues.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, May 07, 2015  

  • "Since we are now in the post mortem phase, I would have to say this little “Roswell Slide” episode has worked out rather well for all concerned. By that I mean that almost everyone got what mattered most to them out of the case"

    ...I was able to indulge my fondness for pithy Roswell-related smartassery, so yeah, I agree with this.

    Thanks, RR!

    By Blogger Loki, at Friday, May 08, 2015  

  • Larry did work very hard to help the hucksters sell this latest bit of nonsense.

    That he couldn't see what all of us could see from a presumedly much lower resolution image is a testament to just how "skeptical" he is.

    Just be what you are, Larry.

    Just be a believer.

    The "something" you knew before everyone else was worthless. You did help spread it and sell it. You get some satisfaction from that?

    Lance




    By Blogger Lance, at Friday, May 08, 2015  

  • As I posted this a.m. in the "Note the male hand in this photo...." thread, the woman in the background wearing what looks like a nun's habit (?), the sleeves have some similarity to this:
    http://abbey-roads.blogspot.com/2014_06_08_archive.html
    . . . so a religious connection seems possible. But the order could be from anywhere, visiting an exhibit, wherever THAT might be.

    By Blogger Ron, at Friday, May 08, 2015  

  • Moving on, Rich. :)

    By Blogger Ron, at Friday, May 08, 2015  

  • Oh, Boy!

    Our friend Larry wants to spin this into a circle jerk. It's nothing like that. Not Even!

    Skeptics know that nothing extraordinary crashed at Roswell or anywhere else, so whatever the "Roswell slides" were, they weren't pictures of a dead alien.

    We said this from the get-go. I repeatedly said that I couldn't care less about the "slides." I knew it was just a load of crap that had nothing to do with a healthy interest in the "UFO" myth and delusion. And once a slide was leaked we knew that as fact. It was obviously a mummy.

    Now our friend and Internet "UFO" crackpot--since he insists on talking like one instead of being mature and civil--Larry says, "pseudoskeptics/debunkers/deniers...got a cheap win—they got to be right without having to be very smart."

    Good one, Larry! What did we win?

    I win every day! As long as you fail to falsify the Null hypothesis, I Win! Skeptics Win! Reason Wins!

    Larry likes to think he's smart because he believes in flying saucers. That's "smart!" (Yeah, right.) And he just happens to be a space engineer. You've got to be smart to be a space engineer.

    The only flaw in this formulation is that we just had a real-life demonstration that understanding the real world, disbelief in the "UFO" myth and skepticism isn't so much about being smart. It's about being rational.

    "Houston, we have a problem."

    Being severely rational is the mental ability that Larry has lost to uncritical belief in a juvenile fantasy. So much so that he's angry and kooky, saying things that inaccurately describe reality and are just plain nutty--like nearly every other old ETHer I've ever encountered.

    And that's really too bad because I'd like to have Larry on the rational side, and it's not too late! The Null and PSH are your friends, Larry. Seriously.

    I believe I heard our friend Larry on C2C years ago. He was on with another--much more famous--space engineer and major "UFO" skeptic.

    I never laughed so hard as I did that night. And then again the next day when that skeptic was IMing me about it! What Fun!

    "Shut Up, Larry!" (LOL)

    We "winners" get to do that.

    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Friday, May 08, 2015  

  • Zoam:

    "You've got to be smart to be a space engineer."

    But you've got to be smart to be an astronaut too. Edgar Mitchell was an astronaut. And he is convinced ETs are here, the US government knows it and that he was let in on the secret (a pity other astronauts were not).

    Anyway, Mitchell is another guy who 'knows'. Got it?!

    By Blogger cda, at Friday, May 08, 2015  

  • Yeah, Chris; Mitchell's a former astronaut and he's got a PhD in astronautics from MIT too, and he knows.

    Another astronaut, the late Gordon Cooper was also in the know on the ET presence; as well as the late astronaut and scientist Brian O'Leary, another believer, like Larry and his crackpot friends at NARCAP, in the know.

    We could make quite a list of highly educated people in aerospace and out who are in the know on the ET presence. The sad thing is though, that having an alphabet soup of degrees will never make a false belief true.

    They can believe in earnest, they just can't show it. And that's the entire issue.

    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Friday, May 08, 2015  

  • "But you've got to be smart to be an astronaut too. Edgar Mitchell was an astronaut. And he is convinced ETs are here, the US government knows it and that he was let in on the secret (a pity other astronauts were not)."

    just a friendly suggestion cda, but using astronauts as a touchstone for absolute truth may NOT be such a good idea:

    http://www.denverpost.com/sitemap/ci_5167528

    #LisaNowak

    #diapers

    P.S. Mitchell graduated from high school in Roswell in 1947, so what?

    By Blogger Loki, at Friday, May 08, 2015  

  • Most of us should move on, but this fiasco does need a definitive write up for posterity, as an example of how not to do UFO research. Or as an example of how UFO "research" too often is just "product" for the UFO entertainment industry.

    Our chronicler would be someone influential enough to get all the players answering questions on tape, but is also seen as an honest broker of information.

    How about the FBI or the FCC? Or a lawfirm representing the plaintiffs in a class-action suit? (Such an investigation would probably require subpeona power.)

    By Blogger Terry the Censor, at Tuesday, May 12, 2015  

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