UFO Conjecture(s)

Sunday, July 26, 2015

Paranormal elements are real, tangible (including the Men in Black)?

Kevin Randle, at his blog, noted a 2008 Fortean Times piece by Jerry Clark [Experience Anomalies] in which Mr. Clark speculates on various paranormal experiences implying that, maybe, those experiences are not intangible, evanescent events but, rather, manifestations with a touchable, tangible reality.
Mr. Randle provides an extensive excerpt, and also pointed his readers to the whole paper (sending me an internet copy to use here):


And Tim Brigham, at his Facebook page, promoted a video about Gray Barker, whose 1956 book, They Knew Too Much About Flying Saucers, where Curt Collins asked me to elaborate on my comment about Barker:

“A matter of controlled paranoidal schizophrenia or an actual meddling by government agents.”

Mr. Barker’s books introduced the idea of The Men in Black, with which you are all familiar and Nick Redfern’s books and internet postings have delineated and explored better than anyone else.
I happen to concur, somewhat, with Mr. Clark (and Jacques Vallee, among others) that there is a reality with paranormal experiences which indicates that reality is not hallucinatory or illusionary, even though usually transient.

Lewis Spence, in his book An Encyclopedia of Occultism [University Books, New Hyde Park, NY, 1960, Page 199-200] wrote, “ …the sensory nerves produce(s) an effect of sensory vividness – normally, a true perception – the impulses thus diverted give to the memory images an appearance of actuality, not distinguishable from that produced by a corresponding sense-impression.”
Neurological doctor and noted author Oliver Sacks has dealt with such “effects” in his many writings, but hesitates to say that such effects are tangible.

The topic is confused and convoluted by the ongoing debates about consciousness; what it is and what it isn’t.

My impression is that hallucinatory images, sounds, and manifestations, while usually ephemeral, have a reality that is absolute in the same sense as that reality we can touch, hold, or interact with on a daily, regular basis.

In the case of UFOs, I don’t think they are paranormal but actual physical entities, either an unusual phenomenon or an intrusion of something odd from elsewhere (another dimension or possibly, not probably, from other galactic cultures – extraterrestrial civilizations).

But those entities that show up, for witnesses, in an interacting UFO event, nay derive from a mental, neurological glitch, or hallucinatory contrivance caused by food, drugs, or biological malfunction.

However, some interactions that UFO witnesses have, such as The Men in Black confrontations may be actual contact by real agents or duplicitous individuals operating within the UFO framework, or …
The Men in Black may be paranormal intrusions that become bona fide realities for a moment in time – as Nick Redfern’s accounts of them seem to indicate.

That is, The Men in Black come from a reality outside our normal one (as Jerry Clark’s thesis might have it) or are created by the mind of those afflicted by their intense involvement in the UFO experience.

The demons that afflicted or afflict Christians, removed exorcism(s), are similar in nature as The Men in Black, but removed ceremoniously whereas the MIB often go away with documents or substantive materials in a less vivid departure,

Those having a MIB contact may unconsciously remove or misplace documents and other materials as part of their created “reality” or the MIB actually take with them such “evidence” that subcontracts their reality.

Gray Barker’s experiences were a product of “insanity” by his intense association with UFOs or he was an actual recipient of visits by “agents” from his id or the government or some other concrete, hidden agency,

Either way, Jerry Clark’s “manifesto” should be read and dialogue exacerbated by it.

I thank Kevin Randle for generating links to Clark’s paper and thoughts.

RR

25 Comments:

  • ``Indeed, if as exobiologically inclined astronomers have argued, the galaxy harbors hundreds of millions of advanced civilizations, a visible ET presence is more likely than its opposite.``

    This non-sequitur really only demonstrates how incapable the author is of handling vast distances (and the overall vastness of space) in his model of reality.

    By Blogger Parakletos, at Sunday, July 26, 2015  

  • Yes.

    Jerry Clark is right in one respect. Given that hundreds of millions of advanced civilizations exist, it is indeed likely that in the passage of time at least one of them would visit the earth at some point. But how long must we wait for that 'some point'?

    But it is still a very big assumption that 'hundreds of millions' really do exist. And it is an even bigger assumption that any of them possess the means to travel the light years of space necessary to visit us. There is also the problem of them wanting to visit us (unless it was a chance visit). There is also the little matter that 'hundreds of millions' is but a mere drop in the ocean, literally, compared to the total number of stars and planets throughout the galaxies.

    Isaac Asimov's "Extraterrestrial Civilizations" is a good read on this, but even he cannot possibly know the answer. Frank Drake has his famous equation too.

    By Blogger cda, at Monday, July 27, 2015  

  • Parakletos said:

    This non-sequitur really only demonstrates how incapable the author is of handling vast distances (and the overall vastness of space) in his model of reality.

    But in contrast you Parakletos are so much capable of handling the 'vast' distances of space? Why don't you also try to handle the vastness of time? I mean, given the vastness of the time (age) of our universe (13700 My), one might expect sufficiently old civilizations to exist, which even if traveling slow, would have covered such 'vast' distances. Why don't you also try to handle the 'vastness' of technological possibilities that others might have explored, or are you going to be marooned at our current very likely 'non-vast' technological understanding?

    By Blogger Don Maor, at Monday, July 27, 2015  

  • Wrong, CDA. Hundreds of millions of civilizations would still likely be entirely too far apart to see each other. Space is VAST. And 'hundreds of millions' is practically NOTHING compared to a septillion stars:

    ``And so, if you multiply the number of stars in our galaxy by the number of galaxies in the Universe, you get approximately 10^24 stars. That’s a 1 followed by twenty-four zeros.

    That’s a septillion stars.

    But there could be more than that.``

    http://www.universetoday.com/102630/how-many-stars-are-there-in-the-universe/

    By Blogger Parakletos, at Monday, July 27, 2015  

  • Don,

    I will not bite other than to say that many who are still alive grew up in a generation that had no comprehension of anything more than our own Milky Way. What they believed were stars turned out to be galaxies, or even clusters of galaxies. Their mental models of space are ENTIRELY too small to deal with questions such as these.

    We're not discussing the probability that ANY TWO OR MORE such civilizations would live near enough to each other to see evidence of each other. We're much more refined than that, as we're specifically singling out Earth as THE planet that must be visited. That changes the probability significantly.

    By Blogger Parakletos, at Monday, July 27, 2015  

  • Okay fellows...

    You're off on a tangent.

    Clark's paper and my posting have to do, essentially, with the idea that paranormal events are actual, not hallucinatory or illusional.

    The travel possibilities of ETs are interesting but not the point of the hoped for dialogue here or at Kevin's blog.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, July 27, 2015  

  • ``which even if traveling slow, would have covered such 'vast' distances``

    Wrong. The galaxies are moving apart from each other entirely too quickly to allow for that, unless you also allow for the very unscientific possibility of faster-than-light travel.

    By Blogger Parakletos, at Monday, July 27, 2015  

  • Parakletos
    "Hundreds of millions of civilizations would still likely be entirely too far apart to see each other"

    "Entirely"?. Without any calculation, this is pure bla-bla-bla.

    By Blogger Don Maor, at Monday, July 27, 2015  

  • RR,

    They could be actual. Or they could be simply shared evolutionary artefacts that exist in the 'hardware' of the brain.

    By Blogger Parakletos, at Monday, July 27, 2015  

  • Almost back, P....

    It's a bit more complicated than your brief comment has it.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, July 27, 2015  

  • Don,

    No offense, but you clearly don't know enough about cosmology. You don't know that the space is expanding between the galaxies, it seems. And if you don't know THAT much, then you are stuck. And it's not my 'job' to unstick you against your will.

    By Blogger Parakletos, at Monday, July 27, 2015  

  • Okay...

    Don, you can reply to Parakletos, if you like, but that's it.

    If I see more comments about intergalactic space travel, I'll delete the whole subset of commentary about it.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, July 27, 2015  

  • Paranormal events are actual?

    They may be or they may not be. It depends on the event.

    There have been a number of miracle cures at Lourdes that the medical profession accepts as true, but these are only a very small percentage of the total number who go there hoping for a cure. I would guess the true figure is well under 1 in 1000. This can be explained by the laws of probability, or they can be regarded as 'miracles'. Example: someone on crutches for many years visits Lourdes and can suddenly throw them away and walk normally. Do you believe that this person could have visited, say, the Taj Mahal and experienced the same effect? What is the explanation?

    Paranormality perhaps, but that is hardly an answer.

    By Blogger cda, at Monday, July 27, 2015  

  • Parakletos:

    No offense, but you clearly don't know enough about cosmology.

    I know enough about cosmology. That is why I said that your argument of the 'vastness of space' is 100% irrelevant.


    You don't know that the space is expanding between the galaxies, it seems.

    I know, but it is 100% irrelevant in the sense that the milky way has enough stars inside such as to potentially harbor hundreds or thousands of ancient and new civilizations. They could have reached the Earth long ago, even traveling at speeds slower than light.

    You don't know that the space is expanding between the galaxies, it seems.

    I know that, but so what? Space is expanding from the very instant of the Big Bang. Inflation theory tells us that the early universe expanded at rates HIGHER than the speed of light. This means that objects got separated each from other at faster speeds than that of light, so in principle, laws of physics (general relativity) don't really forgive objects to travel faster than light (much to the surprise of many people who thinks they know much about cosmology). So advanced civilizations might, after all, travel at speeds higher than the speed of light.

    By Blogger Don Maor, at Monday, July 27, 2015  

  • Don,

    Again, you clearly do not understand. And RR won't allow further discussion. I will simply remind you that it will soon be impossible to demonstrate that the galaxies are moving away from each other exponentially with time. And as Hitchens put it -- there's a whole lot of nothing, and it's coming our way.

    By Blogger Parakletos, at Monday, July 27, 2015  

  • As for the math -- it is a simple matter of scale. 100 billion (10^11) stars in the Milky Way vs. 10^24 stars in the universe. If we assumed that all galaxies are similarly sized, that means there are 10^13 other galaxies out there. 10^13 is significantly larger than 'hundreds of millions', meaning that the odds of just ONE of those galaxies having intelligent life would still be low. That's NOT to say that there COULD not be one or more in the Milky Way, but only that it is not PROBABLE.

    By Blogger Parakletos, at Monday, July 27, 2015  

  • All right Parakletos. Instead of "forgive" I should have written "forbid". My bad there. Now let's return to the main topic, to avoid RR's wrath :)

    By Blogger Don Maor, at Monday, July 27, 2015  

  • His wrath can be extreme. And now he is armed with telepathic ants, it seems. Now that's scary! =P

    By Blogger Parakletos, at Monday, July 27, 2015  

  • And Jean (Rare phenomena lover) and I hope to communicate with the little beasts.

    They surely can provide a more accommodating dialogue than that which has appeared above.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, July 27, 2015  

  • You want to speculate on what it's like to peer through the glass darkly, without the glass. And I'm simply saying that the glass will always be there -- although you may make it a bit less dark.

    You but tease us, RR, with what you want in the comments. You said that it was a 'bit more complicated than that', in response to my comment. But you went no further. I try to limit my mind-reading to Saturdays...

    By Blogger Parakletos, at Monday, July 27, 2015  

  • Limiting your "powers" to just Saturday is a slap at psychic heroism, Parakletos.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, July 27, 2015  

  • RR,

    "Clark's paper and my posting have to do, essentially, with the idea that paranormal events are actual, not hallucinatory or illusional."

    Amid liars, fakers, and mistaken-identifiers how are we to know? It's back to looking for the small signal in the great noise.

    Just what would it take to identify an "actual paranormal event?" Precognition wins lottery weekly and ends lottery? etc. ... Or our favorite: UFO lands on White House lawn or anywhere public and ET gets out and ends this blog.

    Bryan

    By Blogger Bryan Daum, at Tuesday, July 28, 2015  

  • Bryan:

    Clark, in his wisdom, calls for procedures (experiments?) to test the hypothesis.

    But I rely on testimony pretty much, accepting that most people, outside of the UFO creeps, are honest and trustworthy.

    For instance, Gray Barker may have been a hoax operative, but his actions seem more attuned to actually being harassed by men in dark clothing (the MIB).

    Whether those MIB were a delusion of his or real "agents" from somewhere in the government or ethereal underground is yet to be proven....and we are too far away from the time-frame to determine anything.

    However, even if Barker were delusional or hallucinating because of the mental stress that the UFO topic may have caused or exacerbated, the MIB he experienced seemed to leave sensory evidence that they were really present in Barker's life.

    That's a reality unto itself.

    This gets us into consciousness....what is it and what is it not?

    (I have a blog that deals with the matter.)

    My point is that tangibility is not just Newtonian but quantum, and there we are in a situation that becomes iffy, intellectually.

    I'm not a big fan of ESP, despite my longing for ant telepathy, but as Shakespeare noted (in Hamlet), "There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

    An insight, I think, that has merit.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Tuesday, July 28, 2015  

  • RR,

    I can appreciate you notion of tangibility having a quantum aspect -but with all things "spooky" we must walk down that road hesitantly. Repeating, we are searching for a signal -but we don't want build desire into any epistemology. On the other hand, looking over the horizon for new light is not desire, it exploration.

    BD

    By Blogger Bryan Daum, at Wednesday, July 29, 2015  

  • When I was a teenager, I was taking my sisters puppy outside to relieve itself, one early winter dusk. As I placed him on the ground, he began to frolic amid the few inches of snow. It was then that I noticed the peculiar footprint in front of me. It looked like a bird's, except it was about the size of my hand. Only seeing the one print, I lazily scanned the ground in front of me. I had to jump to make it to the second print. Looking at it, I could now make out little claws or toenails at the tips. There were three toes in front and one in the back. Only then did it truly dawn on me that something 'real' had been or still was nearby. Images of an ostrich or a raptor flitted through my mind, as I slowly looked up from the ground... to see It in the corner of the yard, standing near and taller than the new 8 ft privacy fence my mother had recently installed. It was a Tall White 'alien'. Large head, skinny body, gangly arms. No dicernable clothing. It was just standing there, looking at me. Needless to say, I grabbed the dog and ran.
    The snow was gone the next day. And its the only 'alien' I have ever seen. There was no UFO. I would have dismissed the whole thing as a hallicination years ago, if it hadn't been for those damned footprints..
    So, yes, I definitely belive there is something physical or real about paranormal/metaphysical phenomenon. I am not a fan of the popluar nuts and bolts spacecraft theory, but admit it is possible.
    The best theory I can come up with, is an multidimensional one, where 'other dimensionals' may manifest physically into our world, albeit for a limited time, generally.

    By Blogger Hipnomads, at Monday, August 03, 2015  

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