posted by RRRGroup at
Thursday, December 10, 2015
RR,[Had a bit of trouble with the link (blue but wouldn't allow a click on)] Great read. Almost certainly ball lightening. A quick search found a National Geographic piece with on the Naval Research Lab's top scientist's interest and interesting comment:"...Here's a real, physical phenomenon that's out there in nature, and we don't have the foggiest idea what it is—that's interesting," he added."I hope in my lifetime we find out what it is. It's possible that there's some very new physics in it and that could be very profound.""New physics" -that's what we're talking about.BD
By Bryan Daum, at Thursday, December 10, 2015
RR,Meant to include the link to the National Geographic article:http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/05/060531-ball-lightning_2.html-And a Hi to Zoam, -there certainly are UAPs out there.BD
Fixed link, Bryan.....thanks for the heads up.I'm going to head into the "new physics" next -- spurred from the book "The Soul of the Marionette" by John Gray (noted here a few times).RR
By RRRGroup, at Thursday, December 10, 2015
Such earth-like illustrations. Another fanciful visit to Mars from Mark Wicks.http://longstreet.typepad.com/thesciencebookstore/2010/01/advanced-utopian-martian-communities-1911.htmlThe frontispiece with "flying saucers" was sent to me by none other than Hilary Evans about 1995!You gotta love this new intraweb thing. (g)
By zoamchomsky, at Thursday, December 10, 2015
"-And a Hi to Zoam, -there certainly are UAPs out there."Thanks, Bryan! Your "New Plasmarians" membership card and secret decoder ring are being posted as I type.No doubt there are many rare types of electrical displays in Earth's atmosphere, many associated with geologic activity, but few if any have much to do with why people have made many thousands of wildly varied "UFO" reports over the last century.If only we could get pictures of these various floating orbs and plasmas. "There are many reports of such things but never the things themselves" seems for now to apply to rarefied plasmas as much as it does to extraordinary "flying saucer" claims.http://photography.nationalgeographic.com/photography/photo-of-the-day/calbuco-volcano-eruption-ngpc2015/
I knew "From India to the Planet Mars" (1900) with the aid of Albert Rosales ...I found this it is very similarhttp://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Alien%20Writing/Granchi.html
By jacarav@ca, at Thursday, December 10, 2015
Good evening,"No doubt there are many rare types of electrical displays in Earth's atmosphere, many associated with geologic activity, but few if any have much to do with why people have made many thousands of wildly varied "UFO" reports over the last century.If only we could get pictures of these various floating orbs and plasmas. "There are many reports of such things but never the things themselves" seems for now to apply to rarefied plasmas as much as it does to extraordinary "flying saucer" claims.http://photography.nationalgeographic.com/photography/photo-of-the-day/calbuco-volcano-eruption-ngpc2015/"Getting good pictures and videos of such phenomena as well as some preliminary electric and magnetic field measurementsis actually my own field observation project. I have no precise deadline for that project. Luck and patience is obviously required.Best regards,Jean
By Rare phenomena lover, at Thursday, December 10, 2015
"No doubt there are many rare types of electrical displays in Earth's atmosphere, many associated with geologic activity,"Indeed. The Marfa Lights are a good example as are other similar phenomenon. Oh, but wait,,,,if it's currently "unexplained" then it just has to be "aliens" making it happen! Right? Not.
By Brian Bell, at Friday, December 11, 2015
"Thanks, Bryan! Your "New Plasmarians" membership card and secret decoder ring are being posted as I type."And a thanks to you too, Zoam!Looking forward to my membership card and ring, I hope that I qualify. -I had to turn in my decoder ring when I left the Strategic Air Command.I have certainly not suggested that a “new physics” to explain ball lightning (and exploding ball lightning) suggests an ETH, but it likely explains some otherwise confused UAP sightings.I do believe that “new physics” is simply evolving physics in a similar fashion to alchemy and mathematics roughly evolving into chemistry. I find great joy in accepting that there are unknowns in our physics that, in turn, suggest explanations through new evolving physics of some of what is unknown incrementally over time. With that clear definition of (incomplete) physics being at best incomplete, especially where it accepts that we can account for less than 10% of what can be defined, my read and consideration on that leads me to conclude that you are clearly deserving of a deeded plot of sand in the ostrich farm in which you can bury your head amid company. Your gifts and mine may well cross in the mail.BD
By Bryan Daum, at Friday, December 11, 2015
Good morning,I forgot to add that for sprites and blue jets, there are plenty of pictures and videos of these phenomena. A simple Google search will show it.For earthquake lights, unfortunately many pictures and videos (submitted by non experts) taken recently just show iridescent clouds or transformer explosions. The best pictures of the phenomenon are the ones taken during the Matsushiro earthquake in Japan in 1966.There is also one picture taken at Tagish Lake, Yukon, Canada showing luminous spheres. While I am pretty confident that thispicture shows the "real thing", one may always say that it was not taken in controlled conditions.For Marfa lights, it has been shown that the majority (but not everything) of reports are caused by mirages (Fata Morgana or superior mirage) of car headlights coming from a nearby highway when the weather conditions are right. For the other cases, more research is still needed. Close range photography or videos of the phenomena would help considerably.The search for rare atmospheric phenomena is a very exciting field of research.Best regards,Jean
By Rare phenomena lover, at Friday, December 11, 2015
Bryan;You've misunderstood my friendly joke, I think."Plasmarians" was the name of Phil Klass' "UFO" skeptics group in the 1960s, after his ultimately dismissed Plasma hypothesis for "UFO" reports. So "New Plasmarians" was my humorously intended reference to your suggestion that ball-lightning and other sorts of undiscovered atmospheric plasmas might be referred to as "UAPs." Sounded like you were being funny to me by stretching the meaning of the word so that it seemed to have something to do with the subject of interest, "UFOs." So I joked back, you know, like reasonable people do.But now I find myself being called "close minded," with the ostrich visual metaphor and all. Yikes!And that undeserved--and contrary to all I say--straw-man caricature is contrasted with Bryan's generous self-congratulatory vision of his open-mindedness based in the "clear definition of (incomplete) physics being at best incomplete, especially where it accepts that we can account for less than 10% of what can be defined."Oh, Brother! I'll give you this, Bryan: That quote should be used in textbooks on logical falllacies and in Skeptic's Baloney Detection Toolkits as an example of Petitio principii and Argumentum ignorantium: Assuming the answer and Appeal to ignorance. It's also a confusion of categories because you're using physics (however misconceived), the domain of real-world positive evidence, to justify an assertion for which there is no evidence, a negative. In its very essence, you're recreated the phony rationale for belief in the "UFO" myth and delusion!The very first line of the Woo-Woo Credo: Ignore the obvious and appeal to ignorance. The mere failure to identify does not create an extraordinary identity; a negative is NOT a positive basis for a hypothetical "unknown." And simply because our knowledge is ambiguous and incomplete, it doesn't mean that anything can be true. Those are the basic ufoologists' tricks, Bryan, and exactly what you just did, however you try to disguise it or do as a matter of a lifetime of ingrained fallacious pseudoscientific thought processing.I certainly hope it was intentional and not natural. When skeptics say "it's dangerous to believe in nonsense," they mean it! A lifetime of falling for pseudoscientific baloney turns brains and critical decision-making skills to mush. Such bad habits foster a antiscientific neo-pagan worldview in this unstable and demanding climate. That "we can account for less than 10% of what can be defined" is choice, even though I guess it's some sort of reference to dark energy and matter, as Bryan uses it it's more like the laughable old paranormalist's saw: "We only use 10% of our brains."Appealing to ignorance, the negative, gets you nothing. Evidence is all that counts, Bryan, not phony rhetorical appeals.
By zoamchomsky, at Thursday, December 17, 2015
>> If only we could get pictures of these various floating orbs and plasmas. "There are reports of such things but never the things themselves" seems for now to apply to rarefied plasmas as much as it does to extraordinary "flying saucer" claims.<<Yes, Jean, thanks, at least in part to you and your special interest--which I applaud--I've revisited some of these reports of rare naturally occurring electrical discharges, those completely distinct from chemically produced ignis fatuus. My point, as many have observed about today's lack of convincing "UFO" photos given the ubiquity of camera phones, is that we've all heard the stories of floating orbs but where are the pictures? They are reported as softball to beachball sized, transparent pink or blue, translucent or glowing, steady or pulsing, moving through closed windows, walls and doors before disappearing or discharging explosively, sometimes with property damage and personal injury.Where are the pictures and videos of such objects?Orbs, Jean, what's your take on orbs? And please correct my misconceptions. Thank you!
Good afternoon Zoam,"My point, as many have observed about today's lack of convincing "UFO" photos given the ubiquity of camera phones, is that we've all heard the stories of floating orbs but where are the pictures? They are reported as softball to beachball sized, transparent pink or blue, translucent or glowing, steady or pulsing, moving through closed windows, walls and doors before disappearing or discharging explosively, sometimes with property damage and personal injury.Where are the pictures and videos of such objects?"I am aware of a few pictures and videos:Here are some examples:Ball lightning that fells from the sky:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9SrGOma5YEPicture of ball lightning taken in Japan new Nagano, 1988:http://www.weatherstock.com/lightning-gallery/slides/L07.htmlFootage of ball lightning taken by scientists in China:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2542615/Scientists-capture-footage-ball-lightning.htmlPicture of possible earth lights taken at Tagish Lake, Yukon, Canada.http://www.ufobc.ca/yukon/tagish.htmThis picture has been criticized by Robert Sheaffer because one luminous sphere was in front of the trees. In myopinion, there is absolutely no problem with this. These luminous spheres has been observed near the ground.The only problem with the picture is that the photographer has passed over now and it is not possible to get furtherinformation. Pictures and videos showing point-like light sources having the sky as the background are pretty useless because they may be anything.You are asking why there are so few pictures or videos of such luminous phenomena.First, we must define what constitute a good picture or video.1- The picture must be taken in controlled conditions: we must know everything from the photographer and the conditionswhere the picture was taken. That exclude most videos from Youtube.2- The picture must be in focus and exposed properly. Many people doesn't know how to operate a camera properly, especially for taking night pictures. Cell phones cameras operating in automatic mode only are particularly poor for night photography and videos. 3- We must of course be able to exclude common artifacts such as lens flares and dust.4- Ideally, the background must not be the clear sky.Very few pictures or videos meet these requirements.The pictures taken at Hessdalen show very distant light sources and this has been (rightly) criticized.Many people (I would said most) doesn't even think to take pictures when they observe something strange, particularlywhen the luminous phenomenon occurs near them. They simply stare at it. For example, I have investigated this year a case in Quebec where a luminous blob of changing shape having a fluo green and red color occurred on the ground only 18m from the witness. The sighting lasted about 4 minutes until the luminous shape disappeared suddenly. The witness never had the idea of running at home to grab a camera.An even more surprising example was reported by Raymond Piccoli who works in the French Laboratoire de Recherche sur lafoudre ( French Lightning Research Laboratory). French police officers were patrolling on the road when lightning strucka tree near them. A ball of light the size of a small calf emerged from the tree and remained stationary on the road for about 50 minutes, gradually contracting in size until it disappeared. No pictures were taken at all!That's why I expect very little from the general public and started an observation project. I will use reports of luminous phenomena observed near the ground that occur repeatedly (there were such cases in the past), to define observation sites.Best regards,Jean
By Rare phenomena lover, at Friday, December 18, 2015
Part 2 (because of the limitations of the message system):"Orbs, Jean, what's your take on orbs? And please correct my misconceptions. Thank you!"There is a number of reports of luminous spheres (and other various shapes) observed near the ground. Getting properpictures and videos is part of my field observation project.Most pictures claiming to show the "real thing" on the web show only dust or insects close to the camera lens that reflect simply the flash. As they are out of focus, they take a circular shape. Example:https://www.google.ca/search?q=orbs+dust+particles&biw=1395&bih=696&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiswaCUxObJAhXDmh4KHfOdBi0QsAQIHg#imgrc=PhPxnAhPIRbn1M%3AYou mentioned ignis fatuus or will-o'-the-wisp. Surprisingly, there are no known pictures or videos showing the true phenomenon where the gasses ignite spontaneously (except one video that I am currently trying to obtain). I havetherefore started an observation project for ignis fatuus as well.Best regards,Jean
Zoam,"You've misunderstood my friendly joke, I think."You clearly missed mine too. You gave a humorous condescending "gift" and I thought you deserved one too. As you deny almost everything presented here as anomalies the image of ostrich with head in ground fits your unending denials. The null ad nauseam. You sure dish it out but can't take it. I won't get into a flame war with you but will note publicly that your lengthy insults and impinging character and motives puts me off.You shotgun diaitribe of condescencing terms and phrases must be clearly listed: logical falllacies, Petitio principii and Argumentum ignorantium, phony rationale,Woo-Woo Credo,appeal to ignorance, a lifetime of ingrained fallacious pseudoscientific thought processing,lifetime of falling for pseudoscientific baloney, a antiscientific neo-pagan worldview,a antiscientific neo-pagan worldview.[sic]This isn't my blog but it's my favorite. Our topic here is conjecture. There are UAPs, and that doesn't mean little green men. I do believe in open mindedness but I'm actually quite skeptical. Not a physicist but I enjoy reading of physics and astrophysics (APOD read daily) although my math education ended with calculus and differential equations many years ago before even calculators (good grief). I find the enigma of dark energy and matter most intriguing and material to our discussion. I do believe that our physics (and science) is incomplete.While skeptical, I'm yet hopeful for SETI's opening the bottle of Champagne in my lifetime. That doesn't make me and idiot, it says I'm hopeful. Bryan Daum (my real name)
By Bryan Daum, at Monday, December 21, 2015
Bryan claimed: "there certainly are UAPs out there."I say, So What?!Bryan;Nope, no condescension involved, you were trolling for disagreement. You're just a closeted believer or "skeptical in name only" believer who insists there are "UAP." Which doesn't mean much if anything at all. And you employ two old very familiar tricks to maintain belief or the pretense of belief in the face of the failed "UFO" hypothesis: disingenuously confuse and conflate terms and definitions and appeal to ignorance.And that ridiculous hypothetical appeal to undiscovered cosmic physics as a pseudo-rationale for continued consideration of the very earthly failed "UFO" hypothesis is the very definition of pseudoscience. The "UFO" myth is history! Get over it, Bryan.I've been doing this for decades on the Internet alone, and decades before. I know that the subject is composed of myths, delusions, pop-culture history and social movements, phony "UFO" stories, rhetorical fallacies and just plain irrationality.There's no science in this utterly inconsequential pseudoscience! Think about it.I'm willing to learn anything about this subject someone can teach. What do you have to offer besides a bad attitude because you fell for the phony "UFO" myth? I said, "No doubt there are many rare types of electrical displays in Earth's atmosphere, many associated with geologic activity, but few if any have much to do with why people have made many thousands of wildly varied "UFO" reports over the last century."I'll stand by that.
By zoamchomsky, at Monday, December 21, 2015
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