UFO Conjecture(s)

Friday, April 29, 2016

Cave Art or an Ancient Astronaut presentation of UFOs (flying saucers) for your amusement?

I just finished he Bertrand David/Jean-Jacques LeFrère book, The Oldest Enigma of Humanity: The Key to the Mystery of the Paleolithic Cave Paintings [Arcade Publishing, NY, 2013] wherein artist David proposes that the paintings by Paleolithic man, found in several caves, mostly in Europe, were created by primitive artists using figurines highlighted by fire, throwing their shadows on cave walls, which were traced by the artists, the technique used for thousands of years, passed down from generation to generation.

(I'll go into the hypothesis more upcoming, but for now let me say it's wanting in my mind.)

David also listed various theories [Page 117 ff.], from others, for the paintings, which I'll touch on also upcoming:

The shamanistic theory (already noted here in my posting, a weeks ago, about Jean Clottes book What is Paleolitic Art and R, Dale Guthrie's The Nature of Paleolithic Art)

The magical and mythological theories of Abbé Breuil and Leroi-Gourhan.

The cosmogenic theory of Chantal Jègues-Wolkiewicz

And the extraterrestrial theory, which I took to the internet where I found this elaborate effort.


Whoever put together this site did so with élan and a belief, it seems, in the Ancient Astronaut theories of UFO sightings.

I discount the view, as you know, because advanced alien civilizations would be remiss in spending so much time surveying this lonely, backwater planet, but some of you might find the panoply of images provided by the web-site creator fascinating.

The cave art topic is another matter, unconnected to AA ramblings, but relevant to what mankind perceives and notes, artistically and otherwise, UFOs part of that madness....er, perception.



  • I've loosely postulated that art work that adorned record album covers (1960-1980s) are/were modern day versions of cave art. Some having deep meaning and others not so.

    With your permission from my blog: http://timhebert.blogspot.com/2016/01/sci-fi-album-cover-artkansas-1979.html

    I believe that I had high lighted other aspects of music/ET themes in other posts. But it underscores that modern man is basically doing the same sans cave wall. One can equally attribute the same to artwork adorning the walls of museums.

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Friday, April 29, 2016  

  • So, you're saying, Timothy, that we haven't evolved, artistically at least, since Cro-magnon?


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, April 29, 2016  

  • We act on impulse...

    Besides, art is in the eye of the beholder and interpretation is left to the viewer. I see no basic difference with interpreting cave art other than archaeologist and anthropologist standing in front of a cave wall scratching their heads contemplating the art's meaning and the artist's motivation.

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Friday, April 29, 2016  

  • A glib position, Tim....I hope you were grinning when you typed it.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, April 29, 2016  

  • The problem with whatever interpretation you make of cave paintings are is that the interpretation are shaped by the thoughts and cultural bias of a "modern mind" that lacks the connection to the "numinous" kind of subjective reality the cave artists experienced. [This is something I learned from my mother who had BS degrees in Religious Studies and Archaeology, and an MA in Anthropology centered on Native American culture].

    So is what you are seeing "art"? or is it "reality"? or is it "history"? or is it their idea of the "evening news"? [Stop the painting! This just in, a Bear has been sighted in the woods!"].

    A modern mind cannot tell because it fails to grasp the "zeitgeist" of the mind that controlled the hand that painted those walls. Any interpretation will more than likely be tainted by the cultural bias of the person doing the interpretation. Look at the brouhaha or Marija Gimbutas' "Goddess Culture" interpretation of prehistory. Are her ideas true or are they influenced by modern feminist thought?

    That's the kind of problem with interpreting the past in light of the present or interpreting a different culture in light of our own. A modern example of this was the assumption that America would be welcomed as heroes by getting rid of Saddam. We know how that turned out.

    To understand their cave art we must understand their "madness" as our own.

    By Blogger Joel Crook, at Friday, April 29, 2016  

  • But one can infer, Joel, some things, deduced from evidence found at digs and what we know about terrain, climate, et cetera.

    There is a cave man "alphabet" collected from the walls where art has been found.

    As David points out in his book, using the method of deciphering Egyptian hieroglyghs by Champollion via the Rosetta stone, researchers might be able to crack what primitive (Paleolithic) man was communicating, giving something to understand what the cave art was about.

    One can set aside the modern mind-set and put oneself into the frame of earlier times, with caveats of course.

    But historians and writers do that all the time, some with success, some without.

    The "zeitgeist" can be approximated: struggle for food/survival, internecine conflict for territory (or food), and other conflicts with the state of existence.

    Those can be imagined rather rightly I think.

    After all, we (moderns) are not so removed from the mentality or consciousness of early man, and are actually a lot like him still.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Saturday, April 30, 2016  

  • Basically, cave art depicts an interest in the surrounding flora and fauna. Or an attempt to show or tell a story for future generations.

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Saturday, April 30, 2016  

  • I luv ya Tim but you are approaching the matter flippantly, yes?

    There have never, as David in his book points out, no artistic renderings in any cave, anywhere that depicts flora. nor birds or insects and not some of the animals extant at the time, warthogs, rats, for example,

    But you might guess at what story the artists were attempting to convey. That would be interesting.

    You might arm yourself with more from the literature.

    It's a fascinating topic, especially when looked at in the context of what was the mental (conscious) configuration intact, that one might discern from the art itself.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Saturday, April 30, 2016  

  • Well I guess that I'm coming from a totally simplistic approach as I've noticed numerous depictions of crude renderings of animals and humans spanning cave art and Native American art.

    I guess that I looking at this with the use of a broad stroke of the brush:)

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Saturday, April 30, 2016  

  • I would think the mind of Paleolithic man would be right up your alley, Tim.

    What were they thinking....can we ever really know?

    Are there clues in their art (and even their proto writing)?

    Were they influenced by outsiders (aliens as the AA crowd has it), or were they more advanced than we think?

    It's a fascinating topic, when one digs into it.....(yes, a pun).


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Saturday, April 30, 2016  

  • Rich,

    Sure, the thought process and content of Paleolithic man is indeed interesting. But frankly such interest is merely supposition. We simply do not know what he/she thought about other than to make inferences that survival was probably the utmost on his mind.

    We can make assumptions that somewhere along the way abstract thoughts appeared to over ride some of his concrete thinking. Much of this was gleamed through funerary customs such as burying the dead with personal possessions. This could imply that he may of thought of an after life and the dead would need this items, or it could have been due to the belief that personal items (tools/weapons) were strictly that of the original owner and not to be handed down to the rest of the clan.

    As far as the art work, from a concrete way of thinking, he merely used it as a way to communicate about his world...his interpretation...not ours.

    Perhaps we are to abstract in our interpretations ignoring a simple answer.

    Hopefully, the above demonstrates a less "flippant" approach.

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Saturday, April 30, 2016  

  • Oh, it's okay to be flippant, Tim, as we have no idea what the Paleolithic artist had in mind, as you note. We can only guess.

    But there is a "procedure" which could unlock, somewhat, what actually transpired 25,000 years ago.

    I've wanted to post about that procedure for some time, which I did for The Enquirer (yes) a long time ago, using my newspaper name.

    It's a matter of finding my submission to that paper and the notes that belong to it.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Saturday, April 30, 2016  

  • If I recall correctly, those cave paintings were done for different reasons:

    1) Religious symbolism and worship to gods

    2) Commemoration of significant events in tribal history

    3) A journal documenting the typical life of the community

    4) A visual aid to help in story telling of legends and myths

    Interestingly not one seems to represent a sort of "field manual" for step wise instruction of tool making, starting fires, or how wheels might be construction. I suppose those things were conveyed by hands on instruction rather than illustration.

    Even so not one of these cave paintings represents extraterrestrial contact.

    By Blogger Brian Bell, at Sunday, May 01, 2016  

  • Brian...

    There are various hypotheses for cave art: the Paleolithic renderings, the earliest.

    One can't take a cavalier look at the art and come away with suggestions for why or how they were done.

    Like UFOs, the art needs serious rumination and research.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, May 01, 2016  

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