UFO Conjecture(s)

Thursday, May 05, 2016

The Roswell Kite?

This fair use excerpt from the copyrighted photo, owned by the University of Texas at Arlington, of the alleged Roswell "debris," shows Haut's "flying disk" (and Brazel's gathered materials) to be a kite:
Did anyone check to see if some (Proctor?) kids were flying a kite, near the Brazel farm, on that July day in 1947?



  • I have suggested, within the last month or so, that perhaps two balloon launches, instead of one, were responsible for the debris. This is based on the fact that Brazel did not check his ranch every day (maybe only once or twice a week). But even if he did cover parts of his ranch every day, I doubt he got out to the far corners every time. We cannot say with any certainty, for example, that the radar reflector necessarily came from the same launch as the balloon fabric. I admit this is speculative, but so is an awful lot else about this case.

    So yes, maybe it was some kids and a balloon. However, I would expect this to have been discovered at the time. But we can speculate forever on this.

    By Blogger cda, at Thursday, May 05, 2016  

  • Not balloon debris, CDA, but kite debris.

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, May 05, 2016  

  • Rich -

    As I told CDA, Brazel was in that particular field where he found the debris because it was the water source for the sheep. While he wasn't there everyday, both his son, Bill and one of his hired hands, Tommy Tyree, said that it was every other day at worst, and four or five times a week. It doesn't matter that he didn't get to every corner of the ranch every day, he did get to that important field...

    And, now we have two launches from two separate locations coming down at the same place at the same time. I'll let it go at that.

    By Blogger KRandle, at Thursday, May 05, 2016  

  • But did anyone of the kids, Kevin, fly a kite in the time-frame?

    I kid, of course, but the "debris" looks more like a damaged kite, to me, than a balloon.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, May 05, 2016  

  • Rich -

    If you wish to follow this line of thought, I will note that in some of the newspaper articles they talk about a kite. A search of them would provide some quotes so that you can keep this theory aloft... so to speak.

    By Blogger KRandle, at Thursday, May 05, 2016  

  • Did anyone, at the time, attempt to assemble the debris to see what kind of configuration it might have had?


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Thursday, May 05, 2016  

  • Hello Rich & all,

    "Did anyone, at the time, attempt to assemble the debris to see what kind of configuration it might have had?"

    Even if I dont "buy" its theory, yes it seems at the time they attempted to reconstruct the whole and assemble the debris and to a kite configuration.

    In the RDR (9 july 1947): According to Brazel they simply could not reconstruct it at all. They tried to make a kite out of it, but could not do that and could not find any way to put it back together so what it would fit.

    Kite was sometimes mentioned when witnesses or cases facing/involving radar-targets at the time of this 1947 mass delusion / social contamination regarding flying saucers.

    It doesnt surprise "me": a radar-target is finally a sort of kite, but the 3D real configuration - of a radar-target - is (imho) difficult to think or guess when you or me facing fragmented debris (you then maybe think and try to reconstruct a "2D" kite so to speack?). But you probably associate what you are facing (a or several radar-target(s) in reality) to a kite. Sort of direct cognitive association you make despite not identify the thing for what it is?

    You have Bessie too stating Kite-like sticks with rubber foil attached (affidavit 22 september 1993) or, concerning circleville incident its time (again a radar-target) It looked like a meteorologist’s balloon, with a six-pointed kite-like contraption suspended from the balloon.

    There are probably other examples, such ones comes to my mind at its stage reading you.



    By Blogger Gilles Fernandez, at Friday, May 06, 2016  

  • @ Rich

    Yes, Brazel and Marcel tried to reassemble it into something like a kite, as the newspaper reported. But they had no luck trying.

    I often wonder what Cavitt was doing when they were trying to build something out of it.

    If he had a cell phone I'm sure he would have been texting some friends about how dumb these two guys were.

    Of course he always claimed he knew it was a weather balloon and rawin target.

    So what was going through his mind?

    Maybe something like, "These nimrods are wasting my time - for cryin' out loud it's a FREAKIN balloon! Ah what the heck....I'll just go over here and take a leak while I wait for this nonsense to end..."

    By Blogger Brian Bell, at Friday, May 06, 2016  

  • I'm curious to know if there was an instrument package "recovered". There was no report of one [that I am aware of] after the AAF changed their story to the recovered debris being an balloon. Years later the cover story was this was one the remnants of the top secret Project Mogul.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Mogul was supposed to be lofting a special microphone listening package? I don't recall any mention [in the USAF report from the 90s] there being any mention of the instrument package being recovered. No photos were presented showing the Mogul package. Nor do I recall there being any mention of what the capabilities of that "microphone". Why? No one has mentioned exactly what it did, how it functioned, and what its operational frequency range was.

    The modern nuclear detection network is based on "infrasound" detectors which are ground based devices designed to detect frequencies from 1 Hz to 20 Hz. Nuclear explosions, meteor strikes / fireballs, and even thunderstorms transmit sound in this frequency range. The detectors are spread around the world so after an event the location can be "triangulated" much like a seismic network does when there is an earthquake.

    My father told me that in the early 1960s he had met an Israeli geophysicist, Uri Fehr, while working on a USAF satellite VLF experiment [which flew on 1964-45A see http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/rds196618939/full ]. Fehr had proposed an infrasound detection network to the USAF/AEC. Given the launch date he heard about the infrasound proposal in 1963/1964. Several years later (1967) my father suggested I might try building an infrasound detector as a junior high school science project as the circuitry to build one was very simple.

    Even if what was recovered was just a weather radiosonde balloon there had to be an instrument package. No photos of that package have surfaced. What happened to it? If there was no instrument package then the debris [as captured in the photo] seems to be a bit of "sleight of hand".

    What the other hand was hiding is a mystery but it seems now that with that 1990 report they should have shown the smashed up instrument package. They did not [so far as I am aware]. Why? So now we have both the mystery of the actual days Mogul flew but what happened to the instrument package if that was a Mogul or radiosonde flight?

    By Blogger Joel Crook, at Friday, May 06, 2016  

  • Thanks Kevin, Gilles, and Brian...

    I'm not a Roswell devotee so the reported kite arrangement wasn't known by me, but confirms that the stuff looked more like prosaic or mundane material than something exotic (from elsewhere, ahem).


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, May 06, 2016  

  • Joel...

    Let's not get into the Mogul thing here.

    I don't want a protracted interaction about that or Roswell either.

    I think I regret posting my little aside.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, May 06, 2016  

  • In one press report (Roswell Daily Record) it talks about Brazel & Marcel trying to form a kite out of it, and failing. So it is strongly suggestive of kite-like material, but don't tell that to the ETHers, will you?

    By Blogger cda, at Friday, May 06, 2016  

  • Joel...

    The wreckage looks like a radar reflector which was attached to a balloon for recording upper winds. Only the balloons launched at 0000 and 1200 GMT also carried radiosondes which recorded pressure,temperature and relative humidity.

    By Blogger John Harney, at Friday, May 06, 2016  

  • Okay balloon guys...

    That's it.

    I don't want to rehash Roswell balloons here.

    I have gotten the kite answers I was looking for.

    (Any other balloon comments coming my way will be ignored.)


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, May 06, 2016  

  • Rich -

    Cavitt first told me, in person, that he and Bill Rickett were too busy to go out on any balloon recovery. Or, in other words, Cavitt didn't always claim it was a balloon. This idea first appeared in the Air Force report.

    And I thought I was the one that first pointed to the newspaper articles that suggested it was a kite. I just didn't bother to look up the specific articles because, frankly, I was too lazy to do it and new that someone else would do so.

    By Blogger KRandle, at Friday, May 06, 2016  

  • Thanks, Kevin...

    I wasn't about to go looking for the Roswell kite stuff either, as Roswell is not a topic I'm obsessed with (although my postings about it would indicate otherwise).

    Gilles and Brian provided comments that satisfied my meager curiosity.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, May 06, 2016  

  • Rich, before weather balloons there were weather kites. Google "meteorological kites" for pics. There was no mention of balloons in the earlier news stories, but a weather instrument or device. In getting everyone from Ramey on down on the same page, there appears to have been confusion as to what the device was supposed to be (the confusion is evident in Ramey's description of the 25ft disk in his office -- no mention of a balloon). The idea of a weather device, weather kites, and the rawin "target" or "kite" requiring a balloon got mixed up. Having decided on rawin, the balloon became necessary in order to get it aloft (weather kites didn't need balloons).

    Kellahin's AP story is all about the kite and there is no mention of a balloon (rubber strips are there, though). This is the news story that gives the Ft Worth version accurately: The disc was a rawin (not a weather balloon), but the press and the public latched onto the balloon as the disc and that is now embedded in our culture. So, Ramey failed to convince anyone the disc was a rawin.

    The Roswell Daily Record version of the Brazel interview has a chunk of description at the end of its account which is about a balloon. It is not in Kellahin's article. In the RDR Brazel denies it was a weather balloon. In the Kellahin story he denies it was a kite.

    Much of the confusion about Roswell is due to the principals being confused, not knowing exactly what they were supposed to be describing.

    or, in a nutshell: kites do not need balloons.

    Best Regards,


    By Blogger Don, at Sunday, May 08, 2016  

  • Thanks Don...


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, May 08, 2016  

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