UFO Conjecture(s)

Tuesday, May 10, 2016

The back story about Frank Scully's book on the Aztec "incident"

Kevin Randle, at his blog [kevinrandle.blogspot.com], has a small piece on JP Cahn, the journalist that unmasked the Newton/Gebauer scam that was The Aztec incident.

I looked up JP Cahn via Google and came across the Reality Uncovered website [http://www.realityuncovered.net/blog/tag/jp-cahn/] with this insightful article by Stephen Broadbent.

The Scully tale was the first book I read about "flying saucers" [Behind the Flying Saucers, 1950] and my first oral book report in high school.

Today, some people see the Aztec story as a derivative of the Roswell tale, used by Silas Newton and Leo Gebauser to bilk investors in a fake oil business.

Others see Aztec as a total confabulation from the get-go by Newton/Gebauer.

And a few others [Scott Ramsey/Frank Warren] insist that the Aztec incident is a real event.

No matter what, we can very likely set aside the alleged 1948 flying saucer crash as a well-told tale that is even more useless when it comes to the UFO phenomenon than Roswell.

(But, like Roswell, there are elements of the story that intrigue, and some, including me, will continue to ruminate upon those elements, because that's ufology, as French skeptic Gilles Fernandez so often adroitly tells us.)



  • Referencing Frank Warren's views on the Aztec story, I had posted a blog article:


    This was during the time of near "hysteria" circulating about a possible link to the Rays and the Aztec story.

    Frank Warren was kind enough to provide a comment:

    "What prompted my commentary was that your description of Aztec is incorrect; it had nothing to do with geologists. The narrative is that oil workers went to check on a brush fire near some oil drip tanks; this is when the unconventional craft was discovered.

    More oil workers arrived on scene as well as local ranchers and finally law enforcement. The military was contacted and or was aware of the craft; they arrived in short order and removed said craft and covered up same (ala Roswell).

    When Aztec was first injected into the slides saga back in 2013, I asked for any supporting evidence . . . an iota, anything that would connect Aztec or its supporting cast to this new alleged evidence. What was given as an answer was just more anecdotes and interpretation of events. That was almost two years ago, and here we go again.

    I said then I say now—without any supporting evidence, or any evidence for that matter what we have is a campfire story."

    I believe that this is still Frank Warren's view on the matter. Perhaps he may comment on you site to elaborate further.

    Tim H.

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Tuesday, May 10, 2016  

  • Rich,

    I believe that Frank's reference to "campfire story" was the Ray/Aztec link. I should have made that clear in my previous comment.

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Tuesday, May 10, 2016  

  • Frank Warren is angry with me, Tim, because I dissed his web-site I think -- or because I made fun of Aztec.

    My view, which he may have been referring to, was that Newton remembered or heard the story of Roswell -- or was told of it by his Army buddies -- with whom he worked in the oil business -- and concocted the Aztec tale using the scrim of Roswell.

    Either way, it seems Aztec is a contrivance, although I am sad to say so, as the Scully book was, for me, a "revelation" I accepted as true and interplanetary in essence way back when.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Tuesday, May 10, 2016  

  • Forgive the off topic comment, but since I had brought up Frank Warren, I noticed that the UFO Chronicles site has not had any activity since 19 April...same for the Facebook site. Frank doing OK?

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Tuesday, May 10, 2016  

  • Frank and I were very close for many years, until a short while ago when he took down my listing at his site, and provided no reason why when I wrote to him,.

    He has had some health issues, so I wouldn't be surprised to hear he's taking it easy.

    I hope it's nothing worse than that.

    Maybe someone reading here can enlighten us.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Tuesday, May 10, 2016  

  • My take on Aztec (a 2012 article):


    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Wednesday, May 11, 2016  

  • Thank you, Nick.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, May 11, 2016  

  • @ Nick

    I read your post and your Mysterious Universe article from 2012.

    I think in many ways you're on the right track.

    I believe the military has been purposely using the UFO phenomenon to obfuscate something they want to hide. What that is I don't really know but there are plausible earthly suggestions:

    1) Human engineered advanced flight technology used for advanced surveillance...

    2) Psychological warfare testing and research...

    3) Counter intelligence for duping belligerent foreign nations...

    By Blogger Brian Bell, at Wednesday, May 11, 2016  

  • Brian:

    There may be multiple reasons, rather than just one. Of course, that doesn't take away that - in my view - there's a genuinely unknown UFO phenomenon. But, it's a phenomenon that can be conveniently used for a wide variety of reasons.

    By Blogger Nick Redfern, at Wednesday, May 11, 2016  

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