UFO Conjecture(s)

Monday, September 05, 2016

The UFO-Nuclear Scenario (once more)

I’ve noted that, for me, UFOs looking at our missile sites, especially those containing nuclear warheads but not limited to nuclear facilities only, could be artificial intelligence machines (von Nuemann-like probes) reconnoitering Earth during their excursions through the universe (or galaxy) once instigated by an advanced alien or extraterrestrial civilization (now gone with the “machines” still destined to fill their missions or assuming the controlling dictum once maintained by their “masters” by way of an artificial intelligent (machine-oriented) manifesto.

That is, UFO machines are AI constituents. (Not all UFOs are AI machines but a few may be).

Or, as I recently opined, UFOs looking at nuclear facilities are not extraterrestrial emissaries but something “closer to home”: probes from a multiverse abutting ours, or insertions from another dimension that sometimes intersects with us, or time-travelers availing themselves of an opportunity to thwart nuclear technology that has adversely affected Earth’s future inhabitants.

That an advanced alien civilization located light years from Earth or just over the galactic horizon would be startled to discover an atomic blast which in the great scheme of cosmic events would be a paltry thing but, more importantly, imperceptible from an interstellar distance, is an astronomical absurdity, no matter what advanced technology is presumed to account for the possibility.

Earth, as I keep struggling to show, is a planet without cachet in our galaxy and a planet that is virtually non-existent in the universe itself.
UFOs have often been reported near and sometimes (allegedly) affecting nuclear facilities which has been documented by Robert Hastings (among others). 

That is a "reality."

But are the UFOs ET-sponsored. I don’t think so.

UFOs are not ET (alien) vessels, as such.

They are something mysterious and unknown. They haven’t crashed in Roswell. And Police Officer Lonnie Zamora, among others who’ve seen something odd in the sky or on the ground, even near a nuclear missile base, didn’t see an alien space ship.



  • Just for grins:



    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Monday, September 05, 2016  

  • Tim:

    Yours is a Zoam Chomsky stance.



    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, September 05, 2016  

  • Tim Hebert was never involved in a UFO-related incident while serving as a USAF missileer. Consequently, neither he nor the other persons commenting on his linked article, above, can offer *informed* opinions on the topic.

    On the other hand, numerous veterans who *were* involved in such incidents have now gone on the record. A few of them summarize their experiences at my new website:


    If one does not wish to rent my film, just scroll down the page to review those veterans' testimonies.

    --Robert Hastings

    By Blogger Robert Hastings, at Tuesday, September 06, 2016  

  • Let me cover skeptic Pilkington's "Mirage Men" witnesses, Carrion and Hastings together:

    Hastings makes the fundamental logical error of appealing to the authority of a few individuals who are sympathetic to, if not unwitting victims or outright believers in the "UFO" myth and delusion. And he thinks that presenting the testimonies of such people on video somehow makes a case for some extraordinary something. It doesn't.

    Tim Hebert, I and many other completely competent people have examined all the evidence and found it sorely lacking any extraordinary component. Surely, if there were such a component in all the evidence, we intelligent people would be able to see it. We haven't.

    Again, simply, Hastings, as Carrion and other conspiracy-mongers do elsewhere in books and films, mistakenly believe that having victims of the myth and delusion "witness" to their bizarre and demonstrably false beliefs--ET "UFOs" at various nuclear installations, or "mirage men," black helicopters, and cattle mutilation--demonstrates something extraordinary.

    Their premises are juvenile, the darkly paranoid stuff of the Shaver mystery and its reiterations; and their manners of argumentation are laughable--this could never make a case for anything! It's all just really stupid.

    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Tuesday, September 06, 2016  

  • Zoam:

    Tell us what you really think.

    (I luv ya, buddy....I truly do.)


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Tuesday, September 06, 2016  

  • Love you too, Bud!

    It was a nice vaco, thanks! Hope yours was also.

    But these guys with their videos. C'mon, who do they think they're fooling with this phony "direct interview of believers, crackpots and frauds" documentary stuff? A little exposition with a few cutaways to a missile base, a dead cow in a field, or "archival footage," and always with the fence and "restricted area and deadly force" warning sign... please!

    How about real evidence that would convince a panel of disinterested scientists? Never!

    As Samuel Rosenberg first noted in the Condon Report of 1968, endless repetitions of unverifiable, insubstantial and utterly inconsequential "UFO" fairy tales, mere claims at best, will never prove anything to anyone not predisposed to the myth, and certainly not to a skeptical or otherwise objective investigator. It's nothing but a matter of belief preceding purported evidence, a hallmark of simple pseudoscience, as is its repetitious quantity ahead of quality trick, which leaves the scientific skeptic mind-numbingly bored since its method fails to logically advance to a veridical conclusion. It already had its phony "UFOs are real" conclusion. Facepalm.

    No "UFO" for you!

    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Tuesday, September 06, 2016  

  • Zoam:

    I don't have a problem with Robert's witness testimony; it's all he's got to work with.

    But I am befuddled, as I told Tim Hebert, by his inclination to ascribe ETs to the UFO phenomenon.

    That's a real jump to errant logic.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Tuesday, September 06, 2016  

  • He already had his "flying saucer" conclusion in 1967 if we can take his anecdote at face value; the otherwise ambiguous "UFO" means "spacecraft from another world" to the true believer. It's not even a question, "UFO" reports ARE "flying saucers."

    He a real old-time ETHer. Simple.

    Again, he and his witnesses can believe anything they like, but they'll never prove anything to anyone merely by reiterating their beliefs--their demonstrably false beliefs.

    How many times in the last fifty years of continuous global surveillance has US Space Command observed ET spacecraft entering the Earth's atmosphere? None!

    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Tuesday, September 06, 2016  

  • Zoam:

    You must surely concede that SPACECOM may have observed ET craft and not recognised it for what it was, or another possibility is they DID know what it was but decided it was too 'hot' a story to inform scientists and the public.

    I am merely reiterating what the ETH & conspiracists keep telling us. I am NOT saying I accept either solution myself.

    After all, ANY truly unexplained UFO case has the potential for being an ET craft, particularly when the observer is convinced it was 'intelligently controlled' (marvellous phrase eh?)

    By Blogger cda, at Tuesday, September 06, 2016  

  • Robert Hastings, "Tim Hebert was never involved in a UFO-related incident while serving as a USAF missileer. Consequently, neither he nor the other persons commenting on his linked article, above, can offer *informed* opinions on the topic."

    The above is a classic example of Hastings' convoluted way of thinking. If I follow Robert's logic, then no one is allowed to formulate an opinion regarding his nukes/UFOs meme/mantra.

    If I were one of his flaunting followers, then my opinion would have some standing. That being I'd be in the club, initiated, christened and afforded the secret handshake and access to ufology's holy script.

    In another twisted example, I could have been an AF missileer who never had a UFO experience, but was a true believer in ETs and UFOs running a muck then I would certainly have good standing in Hastings' eyes.

    Better yet, I tell him a story that I had heard that flight security controller from a different wing entirely had heard from a facility manager working in a different squadron/flight had heard a maintenance team member state that they had seen a UFO hovering over a unidentified launch facility....then I would be invited to attend a national press club presentation telling the nation/world how traumatized I was and that our nation's ICBM forces were at the mercy of prying alien space craft.

    And that is how the nukes/UFO "sausage" is made behind closed doors.

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Tuesday, September 06, 2016  

  • Problem solved -

    If you consider that humans (us) managed to develop advanced electro gravitic aircraft in the 1950's, perfected its use in the 1960's, and deployed it in the 1970's, then these UFOs seen hovering over nuclear facilities are more like AI drones remotely controlled or otherwise, sent out by us (to reconnoiter the Soviets), and they us. Note the Cold War ended, and so have UFOs surveying nuclear missle sites.

    By Blogger Brian Bell, at Wednesday, September 07, 2016  

  • For grins...again.


    Film at 11

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Wednesday, September 07, 2016  

  • > Tim Hebert was never involved in a UFO-related incident, etc.

    Mr. Hastings, if only "initiates" have sufficient knowledge to comment on your claims, then you are no longer talking about events with an objective reality, you are talking about cultic rites.

    By Blogger Terry the Censor, at Thursday, September 08, 2016  

  • > when the observer is convinced it was 'intelligently controlled'

    Intelligently controlled...intelligently designed...oh, the projection!

    By Blogger Terry the Censor, at Thursday, September 08, 2016  

  • >> Robert Hastings says, "Tim Hebert was never involved in a UFO-related incident while serving as a USAF missileer. Consequently, neither he nor the other persons commenting on his linked article, above, can offer *informed* opinions on the topic."

    >> The above is a classic example of Hastings' convoluted way of thinking. If I follow Robert's logic, then no one is allowed to formulate an opinion regarding his nukes/UFOs meme/mantra.<<

    You got it, Tim. It's like this:

    In a time long ago and far away, Robert Hastings caught this really big fish but it got away. So he says anyway. Too bad.

    Now, after all these years of fishing and catching nothing, he's left devastated and all he and his friends can do is talk about the "big one" that got away. So sad.

    For the rest of us, it's all nothing but a few "big fish" stories told on video by some old fishermen, because having been told once as boys about the ghostly "big fish" they're obsessed with the IDEA. So What!


    Look, as had happened many times at various nuclear installations across the US, out on the lonely northern prairie someone saw some lights in the sky at night, got spooked, and imagined he was seeing one of those ghostly "UFOs" he'd heard about.

    It's almost as if it happened in another world, a sort of dreamtime or twilight zone, since all these purported "UFO" events are without context, exist only as anecdotes, memories, and are unsubstantiated and completely inconsequential.

    I don't think that it's possible to test or falsify the insubstantial and inconsequential so it's almost as if it didn't happen at all. No, it's just like it didn't happen at all. Not in the real world anyway.

    And that's where Scientific realists and "UFO" skeptics live, not in Robert Hastings and others' "UFO" fantasy world.

    You've got to sympathize with such people, they've spent nearly their entire lifetimes suffering under the most intense sort of modern delusion, a delusion of the third kind: that Earth is being regularly visited by ET spacecraft.

    So far there is not one bit of evidence to support such a belief. And sadly, the belief that one possesses such evidence and that it can be presented convincingly on video is an even more intense aspect of the delusion.

    Once one begins acting out his delusion it has clearly become something much more serious than a benign false belief. And this psychological territory is one of which Tim Hebert has an uncommon level of expertise.

    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Friday, September 09, 2016  

  • Cultic rites, indeed!

    The cult of those suffering under flying-saucer CE3K PTSD:

    "Tim Hebert was never involved in a UFO-related incident" is the same as


    and every bit as worthless as an argument.

    A factual argument being a concept foreign to the mind of Robert Hastings, like all old-time flying saucer nutters, for him it's all unquestioning appeal to his own authority and that of his like-minded friends.


    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Friday, September 09, 2016  

  • "ANY truly unexplained UFO case has the potential for being an ET craft"

    Chris, I think you've made your views on the subjects we discuss very clear.

    ANY truly unexplained UFO case has the potential for being anything at all--NOT the default "flying saucers" of hard-core ETHers.

    And an "ET spacecraft" explanation is the "least likely" to those of common good sense, serious amateurs and professional astronomers, and in a NAS review of the Condon Report.

    I think the absence of evidence of visiting ET spacecraft as revealed by decades of global surveillance is real evidence of their absence, which dictates that "UFOs" of any kind, as the subjects of reports, must be a wholly terrestrial in origin--even wholly psychological, not real.

    It's something for Robert Hastings to address. How can "UFOs" be ET spacecraft if decades of global surveillance hasn't detected even one? The greatest discovery of all time is being hushed up? Not only is the idea ridiculous because it would never happen in the real world, it would be impossible to even attempt to keep ET visitation a secret, impossible to manage a worldwide conspiracy.

    Such conspiracy-minded nonsense is juvenile Shaverian paranoia, a brain-dead fantasy of a descent into the fiery rings of hell inside the hollow earth. That's all it has ever been.

    "particularly when the observer is convinced it was 'intelligently controlled'"

    Yeah, we're hardwired to see every ambiguous moving dot on the horizon as a potential threat, now--thanks to science-fiction, aerospace and la guerre éternelle--our imaginations have projected that disposition onto the sky.

    Only individuals entirely predisposed to a modern social delusion can make the would-be momentous arrival of mysterious otherworldly spaceships out of bright planets and stars, meteors, falling space junk, common aircraft and sundogs. An unfortunate fact about the world that happened in our lifetimes; a subject worthy of study by social psychologists and documentation by writers but an unfortunate waste of human minds and time--displacing real knowledge and beauty--for those infected by this dumb IDEA, this stupidity, the "flying saucer" myth and general "UFO" delusion.

    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Friday, September 09, 2016  

  • Re: UFOs disable missiles and nukes?

    Post by James Carlson » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:52 pm

    Please note the ongoing discussions on the RU blog. The evidence very clearly insists that both Robert Hastings and Robert Salas are a couple of liars when it involves their discussion of Echo Flight. We have proven this on numerous occasions in the past. I can personally list a number of verifiable lies they have both told. In any case, please examine the blog entries at RU detailing the alleged UFO incidents at Malmstrom AFB in March 1967 if you're interested in examining actual evidence. The only two individuals who were actually at Echo Flight on March 16, 1967 have asserted not only that there were no UFOs involved, but that both Hastings and Salas have been told this by both men, and they were ignored. The whole Echo Flight/Oscar Flight myth is nothing more than a poorly wrought UFO hoax.

    For an exhaustive examination of this case, you are encouraged to check out the arguments at http://www.scribd.com/doc/26641522/Amer ... es-Carlson and at http://www.scribd.com/doc/42303580/Echo ... es-Carlson ; I don't accuse men of lying without being able to prove the charge completely -- they are both liars, and they have both been caught in numerous lies, even at the September press conference in Washington, DC that they organized. This is not an insult -- it is a fact, one repeatedly proven and one that neither man can defend.

    For further in-depth examinations and interviews, the RU URL is at http://www.realityuncovered.net/ -- the top seven articles all detail the events in 1967. There are numerous ongoing discussions in the forum as well.

    For proof of lies, one has only to watch the film clips of their press conference, specifically where Robert Salas claims that his UFO fable has been confirmed by both CAPT (Ret.) Eric Carlson and COL (Ret.) Walter Figel, both of whom were the only men actually on duty at Echo Flight, and both of whom have very strongly insisted that there were no UFOs and that Salas and Hastings are lying. Three days prior to the press conference, both men again insisted that no UFOs were involved, and yet Salas and Hastings continue to insist otherwise, and insist that these two men themselves have confirmed it. There are numerous other lies as well, many of which can be proven by an examination of the 80 pages of FOIA documents that they have neglected entirely to discuss.

    You should also examine Tim Hebert's blog at http://timhebert.blogspot.com/ -- he is an ex-missileer himself, and his analysis of this event is very authoritative.

    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Sunday, September 11, 2016  

  • I've had a copy of "Mirage Men" for about two years I suppose and finally watched it because "Bad UFOs" covered the idea. It's mostly the sad Bennewitz and Doty story.

    Bennewitz was just a mentally-ill person and Doty was merely a military policeman doing his time and learning an occupation, and afterwards he is nothing but an ordinary NM state policeman of course and a big "UFO" liar and fraud.

    And that nutty-as-a-fruitcake LMH and her "cattle mutilation" schtick has to be the one of the strangest diversions in the entire history of ufxxlery. She claims that Doty took her onto Kirtland and showed her SECRET documents that revealed the worldwide ET presence. She has made this claim for years. LMH is easily deceived.

    Watching the video I was transported back twenty years at least to the days of "black helicopters" and "underground bases," Area 51, the sad sagas of Bob Lazar, Bill Moore, Bill Cooper, John Lear, and the "alien abduction" fraud and hysteria. It was horrifying. But no, I never even asked myself, "How did anyone ever take one word of this putrid crap seriously?" I had asked myself that at the time, I knew the answer.

    Admitted "crop-circle" hoaxers Lundberg and Pilkington's thesis--true to their Magonian PSHer associations--appears to be that belief in a fiction precedes the manufacture of a cargo-cult "reality."

    With this, they, somewhat ironically, have recreated Ray Palmer's original idea behind the creation of FATE magazine: the Amazing Stories of the Shaver mystery are Reality! And the Shaver-mystery social phenomenon became flying-saucer hysteria when Ken Arnold reported that he had seen something real but unexplained. Could he have seen the spacecraft of the DERO as Palmer suggested immediately and repeatedly?

    As many times as the mythery is busted by world events and Scientific reality, the fundamentals, the archetypes of Shaver's "racial memory" remain. And instead of understanding the world as it is, the juvenile, fantasy-prone minds of the world and of conspiracies recreate the myth endlessly. The hollow earth of the DEROs is recreated as Area 51, Dulce, Hanger 18, and in the many missile-base "UFO" yarns. [ Larry Warren even claimed there was a complete base under Rendlesham inhabited by aliens. Now Penniston is receiving telepathic binary code messages from the future! ]

    In a particular expression of this: First he heard a rumor about flying saucers over nuclear missile installations and coincident systems shutdowns, and then it actually happened, and then again elsewhere. Then there was a giant red and green spacecraft, much like the fictional Starship Enterprise, but it was sitting on the prairie! And as the years go by he remembers more and more about the "reality" of ET spacecraft over nuclear missile installations--even though none of it ever really happened.

    Will these "wonders" never cease? Believing is Seeing. Or "remembering" or just making it up, there's no difference. Fiction is still fiction.

    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Sunday, September 11, 2016  

  • Todd Hjallmark left this comment, which I expurgated as it contained material that bumped up against libel, or was just extra-offensive:

    "You were never even in the military Robert, so quit acting so goddamn arrogant. You [also] neglect research and know nothing of military culture. Fact is, Figel has stated on many occasions that your take on Echo Flight is a complete lie, and that every time he corrected your many errors, you ignored him. You ignore most of the evidence placed before you."


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Saturday, October 01, 2016  

  • Todd Hjallmark leaves another comment that I've adjusted, as the original is harsher than I allow here...

    "Offensive? Absolutely! It was intended to be. But libel? To prove libel, Hastings would first have to prove that he's right, and he can't.do that! Why do you think he's always threatening to sue his critics but never does? "


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Tuesday, October 04, 2016  

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