UFO Conjectures

Thursday, December 08, 2016

Phoenix [UFOs] Rising?

A new book, by Joseph Nigg, about the mythical “bird” – the Phoenix – encouraged me to look at the mythical story, to see if it offered a UFO idea, and it does….

I have a number of books about mythology, but only a few had material on The Phoenix:
These two books provide ample “information” on the myth, as does Wikipedia:

The classic Bullfinch’s Ages of Fable or Beauties of Mythology by Thomas Bullfinch [Revised by Reverend J. Loughran Scott, David McKay, Publisher, Philadelphia, 1898] provides this from Tacitus:

“ … the miraculous bird known by the name of the Phoenix, after disappearing for a series of ages, revisited Egypt. It was attended in its flight by a group of various birds, all attracted by its novelty, and gazing with wonder at so beautiful an appearance …

“He [the baby phoenix] collects a quantity of myrrh, and makes frequent excursions with a load on his back … he takes up the body of his father [the Phoenix] and flies with it to the altar of the Sun. where he leaves it to be consumed in flames …the myrrh is compacted in he form of an egg, in which the dead Phoenix is enclosed. From the mouldering flesh a worm springs, and when grown large, is transformed into a bird … Herodotus describes the bird …Part of his plumage is gold-colored and part crimson …” [Page 387]

The New Larousse Encyclopedia of Mythology [Hamlyn, London, 1959/1983]  has this:

“The Bird Bennu … [which] the ancients did not doubt his reality … was … connected with the cult of Ra and was perhaps even a secondary form of Ra. He is identified … with the Phoenix … The Phoenix, it as said, appeared in Egypt once every five hundred years.” [Page 45]

Myths and Legends of All Nations by Herbert Spencer Robinson and Knox Wilson [Bantam, NY, 1950] tells [on Page 259] that the Phoenix, which lived for 500 to 1000 years, would build a nest, endowed with spices, and unguents, “sing a melodious dirge, flap its wings to set fire to the pile, burn itself ton ashes, and come forth with new life to repeat the cycle once again.”

Now what does this have to do with UFOs?

The Phoenix was a meme for the ancients, mostly the Egyptians, then, sort of, for the Greeks.

It was a “reality” – from which developed the mythos, not unlike the UFO mythos.

And, as we all know (or should), at the core of a myth is a truth from which the myth sprouts and evolves.

So, was a UFO (or many) seen by ancient humans landing and taking off in a cloud of explosive fire, something like Lonnie Zamora’s egg-shaped Socorro craft?

Yes, this speculation, has the taint of Ancient Astronaut theory, except for the idea that such observed phenomena was extraterrestrial alien beings.

The phenomenon could have been anything, even an actual bird, which is more probable than the vanguard of an alien species obsessed with this forlorn, backwater we call Earth.

No matter what evoked the Phoenix myth, it is a palpable example of how a myth survives, even if we have no idea what caused the myth to sprout in the first place.

[The Phoenix image, at page top, comes from: 



  • ``The planet Venus was called the "star of the ship of the Bennu-Asar" (Asar is the Egyptian name of Osiris). The Bennu was also sometimes associated with Upper Egypt.``


    And note the sun + water imagery. Sun = Illumination, and Water = Mind.

    ``The Greeks knew the Egyptian Benu Bird as the Phoenix. A legendary bird without parents and offspring it nurtured itself on sunlight and sea spray. Brilliant in appearance, its feathers were gold, red and white; its eyes were green as the sea. A semi-immortal being, the Phoenix had a lifespan of 500 years and when about to die, it drew new life from the primal elements of fire and water and was born again. It would build its nest in the form of a funeral pyre and a single clap of its wings would ignite it. Then, when consumed by the flames, a young Phoenix would arise from its own ashes. The Greeks considered the appearance of the Phoenix as a herald of important events to come.``


    By Blogger Parakletos, at Friday, December 09, 2016  

  • Maybe the same thing we today experience as a UFO encounter was experienced as a phoenix (or maybe giants or gods) by ancients? (You knew I was going to say this.)
    According to Oxford Companion to Classical Literature, Phoenix is also a "Latin poem in elegiacs -- on this mythical Arabian bird, whose resurrection to life from death appealed to Christians and to pagan believers in mystery religions. -- The phoenix is described by Herodotus (2.73), Tacitus (Annals 6.28) and others with varying details. In general it was thought to resemble an eagle but with red (phoinix) and gold plumage; every 500 years it makes a nest and dies; from the nest arises a new phoenix which carries its parent´s body to Heliopolis in Egypt for funeral in the temple of Helios (Sun). The version that has become popular in modern times has the new phoenix arising from the funeral pyre which the old phoenix has made for itself."
    Yes, I love classical mythology : )


    By Blogger Jerry Cornelius, at Friday, December 09, 2016  

  • Thank you fellows....we all have sources from which we get the gist of the Phoenix myth.

    I was trying to tie to how the myth came about comparing that time-line and story-line to how the UFO myth developed.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, December 09, 2016  

  • Yes,

    maybe those egyptians saw something that they understood to be a flaming bird (an immortal flaming bird)but what it could be? Maybe an ancient alien encounter, why not?


    By Blogger Jerry Cornelius, at Friday, December 09, 2016  

  • No, Jerry....

    Not an alien encounter. (Didn't I make myself clear about that? Guess not.)

    Something was seen -- not an alien craft! -- that provoked, eventually, the Phoenix myth.

    What might it have been?


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, December 09, 2016  

  • Rich

    Yes, I think you´re right. I don´t really believe in alien encounters. Your question is good -- what was really seen? My answer, of course, is that whatever was seen is today observed as a flying saucer not a phoenix or a god or any supernatural being.


    By Blogger Jerry Cornelius, at Friday, December 09, 2016  

  • Rich

    You did say that the Phoenix was UFO related, your precise wording were:

    [The Phoenix-encouraged me to look at the mythical story,to see if it offered a UFO idea, AND IT DOES....]

    Jerry's comments were "applicable" as a suggested idea, to an Ancient perception viewed in that time period, as maybe or possibly a UFO sighting, or what have you? in comparison to what is viewed in to-days time.

    A UFO does not create or make its self, "I think? "It would need a maker,a manufacturer
    call it what you will.Some of us might call it ETs or AIs (Artificial intelligence) and I think an AI would still be thought of as: "Extraterrestrial"this meaning: "Outside Earth" and if we are talking about "AI controlled craft" they are outside earth coming in! and "some" are earth bound! All of which are ET and/or Alien related.

    So how would the Ancient ones, know all this?..We assume they didn't!..so they tell their own store..............

    By Blogger Daniel Yang-Clark, at Friday, December 09, 2016  

  • Just thinking

    I recently read the Robert Kirk classic, The Secret Commonwealth of Elves, Fauns and Fairies and it was interesting (yesterdays elves = todays aliens?). Could it be that these strange phenomena will always stay with us, without an explanation?


    By Blogger Jerry Cornelius, at Friday, December 09, 2016  

  • Jerry...

    There are a few new books about fairies,elves, and the wee people (plus witches) that I'll be touching on upcoming.


    I'm all for UFOs, obviously, but predicating the appearance of such "things' (which grinds a few sensible skeptics: Zoam Chomsky, Gilles Fernandez, et al.) on alien creatures is just goofy....as I keep trying to convince.

    AI machines may account for a few probe-like visitations ,but a wholesale onslaught of alien beings in crafts, innumerable as reports would indicate is a view that is delusional in the extreme.

    No advanced civilization is going to by-pass all the wonders of our galaxy or the Universe itself to dote on Earth in the numbers indicated by the extant reports of UFOs, That's just ego-centered nonsense.

    My note about the Phoenix puts the mythical bird in the UFO (unidentified flying thing) category only because it flew and remains unknown to explanation.

    There wasn't meant to be, as I thought I made clear, no attempt to ET the mythical bird.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, December 09, 2016  

  • Daniel

    I´ve said this before but maybe (at least some) UFO encounters are AI probes gone mad after a thousand replications?
    And why no-one has made a joke about Phoenix lights? (Sorry, I just couldn´t resist.)

    By Blogger Jerry Cornelius, at Friday, December 09, 2016  

  • Hokey humor for such a serious [Haha] blog as this, Jerry?



    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, December 09, 2016  

  • Rich

    yes, we shouldn`t take these things too seriously, right?


    By Blogger Jerry Cornelius, at Friday, December 09, 2016  

  • Tis OK, Jerry, Had thought about the "Phoenix lights story" good pun,Jerry! but we didn't think it that pertinent, to this discussion, in point of view.

    My point is, UFO ARE HERE! and have been for some time, "evidently!?"...

    Being sceptical,does not make the reality of this, cease to exist,but only doubtful of its existence.

    We read nothing, of "who or what" made UFO; which would lead to the Alien/extraterrestrial
    or people making these craft,and also where they come from.

    You call them creatures, but they are here,with their craft,be it with AIs or other wise, and we are not yet,where they come from, so whom, is the smartest,to be calling them creatures, when in time, it might dawn on someone, that they could be Humans from elsewhere, coming here,and living in amongst us..could even be your next-door neighbor.this WOULD explain, many sightings, don't you think!?

    We don't know this, believe or disbelieve, this is what we hear & read! and this is PART of the reason for a call on Government, For..[Disclosure]..of UFO/ET/Alien..

    You can say what you will..This is NOT my belief. only my understanding,

    By Blogger Daniel Yang-Clark, at Friday, December 09, 2016  

  • Daniel, buddy...

    You're creeping up on "belief."

    UFOs, for me, are not alien vehicles, although I accept the possibility that a few von Neumann-like probes may have shown up here or are showing up here, but not in the numbers indicated by UFO reports. (I hear Zoam Chomsky screaming.)

    I wish you would step outside some night and look up at the night sky, to see the vastness of the galaxy we inhabit, which is a very small part of the known universe.

    That Earth would be a venue for ET visitors is ludicrous to the point of madness. There is no understanding in ET visitations.

    And give up on "Disclosure." That's the siren call of maniacs. The government has no secret knowledge that alien beings are among us or have visited: time travelers, maybe or inter-dimensional intruders, perhaps....perhaps. But that's it.

    I'll be presenting, upcoming, the fairy tale insights of Bruno Bettelheim, which might explain why some people (ahem) look to the ET fiction for comfort or solace.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, December 09, 2016  

  • Your a tryer Rich, very trying!:)..But we respect your opinion.

    [UFO,for you,are not: "alien/extraterrestrial" vehicles]..So what are they to you, Rich?


    So who or what,makes the "AI,UFO/Craft"? other,AIs yes? and who or what made them? & so on, until you can take it no farther,but to agree that extraterrestrial, must be behind the makers of UFO. If not, what?..................?

    By Blogger Daniel Yang-Clark, at Saturday, December 10, 2016  

  • Daniel:

    AI probes can be cited as ET vehicles; they do not contain humanoids but are self-contained.

    They are self-replicating and "immortal."

    You, I think, want to give UFOs extraterrestrial beings piloting them.

    No advanced extraterrestrial civilization would spend as much time visiting and probing our pathetic planet, as UFO reports seem to indicate.

    Such ETs would be more insane (madder) than we humans.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Saturday, December 10, 2016  

  • No,don't get me wrong, Rich. It is irrelevant to me, whether the craft are piloted or not,and the AI Craft speak for them selves, excuse the pun. Its NOT that we want to believe in UFO/ETs, its about if they do exist,and it seems, they are here,we need to know,whats behind it all,and why? That's the interesting part.The UFO is "only a tool" of the maker,to view through.What do they see? They see us chasing them,to shoot them down, its no wonder they're faster than us.We say HELLO, with a stream missiles,they're
    gone! We're a friendly lot,aren't we?................

    By Blogger Daniel Yang-Clark, at Saturday, December 10, 2016  

  • Of course, Daniel...

    All of us (UFO buffs) have been absorbed by the UFO enigma, and want to know what the "phenomenon" is, where it came from, its sine qua non, as it were.

    For me, the ET hypothesis is possible but improbable, for all the reasons listed here (at this blog) for years now.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Saturday, December 10, 2016  

  • Palingenesis:

    ``In the Gospel of Matthew[6] Jesus is quoted in Greek (although his historical utterance would most likely have been in Aramaic) using the word "παλιγγενεσία" (palingenesia) to describe the Last Judgment foreshadowing the event of the regeneration of a new world. Palingenesia is thus as much the result of, or reason for, the Last Judgement as it is directly the Judgement itself.

    In philosophy it denotes in its broadest sense the theory (e.g. of the Pythagoreans) that the human soul does not die with the body but is born again in new incarnations. It is thus the equivalent of metempsychosis. The term has a narrower and more specific use in the system of Schopenhauer, who applied it to his doctrine that the will does not die but manifests itself afresh in new individuals. He thus repudiates the primitive metempsychosis doctrine which maintains the reincarnation of the particular soul.``

    ``The 17th century English physician-philosopher Sir Thomas Browne in his Religio Medici (1643) declared a belief in palingenesis, stating,

    A plant or vegetable consumed to ashes, to a contemplative and school Philosopher seems utterly destroyed, and the form to have taken his leave for ever: But to a sensible Artist the forms are not perished, but withdrawn into their incombustible part, where they lie secure from the action of that devouring element. This is made good by experience, which can from the ashes of a plant revive the plant, and from its cinders recall it into its stalk and leaves again.[7]

    Palingenesis is the subject of the Argentine author Jorge Luis Borges's last ever short story, The Rose of Paracelsus (1983)``

    There's also some discussion of it as a motif within Fascism:

    ``Moreover, Griffin's work on palingenisis in fascism analysed the pre-war Fin De Siecle Western society. In doing so he built on Frank Kermode's work The Sense of an Ending which sought to understand the belief in the death of society at the end of the century. As part of this death and rebirth Fascism sought to target what it perceived as degenerative elements of society, notably decadence, materialism, rationalism and enlightenment ideology. Out of this death society would regenerate by returning to a more spiritual and emotional state, with the role of the individual core. This built on the philosophy of Friedrich Nietzsche, Gustave Le Bon and Henri Bergson's work on the relationship between the mass and the individual with the individual's actions necessary to achieving a state of regeneration.``


    By Blogger Parakletos, at Saturday, December 10, 2016  

  • Parakletos

    good timing, I was just reading Thomas Browne, Relicio Medici and Urne-Buriall (New York Review of Books edition), wonderful.
    Although I admit I got a bit lost, what this palingenesis (a fascinating concept itself) has to do with anything?


    By Blogger Jerry Cornelius, at Saturday, December 10, 2016  

  • Rich

    "For me, the ET hypothesis is possible but improbable, for all the reasons listed here (at this blog) for years now."
    My sentiments exactly. I mean, I can´t say that the UFOs aren´t from another planet but I think it´s pretty improbable. It would mean that hundreds or thousands of species have visited Earth, how probable that is? Actually it would be great if there were real ET contacts, what would be more exciting?


    By Blogger Jerry Cornelius, at Saturday, December 10, 2016  

  • A 500 year event happens, by definition, twice in a millennium. So does that mean there is likely to be two fascist events in that 1000 year cycle, or might the gold phoenix be different from the crimson? Might not the anti-fascists have their own phoenix as well, of the opposite color?

    By Blogger Parakletos, at Monday, December 12, 2016  

  • Hi,

    I must say that nowadays I think that there´s some strange phenomena (we can call it UFOs or ghosts or whatever) that just won´t go away. I think that it´s still there in the future, say after 500 years, but it won´t probably be experienced as UFOs but something else.
    And as for what it really is, well (to quote my favourite tv-series), how the hell should I know?


    By Blogger Jerry Cornelius, at Monday, December 12, 2016  

  • Jerry...

    UFOs, exotic UFOs surely, have gone away.

    UFO reports nowadays are blips of light, doing nothing, just cavorting over a few cities. They're gone.

    What's left are misobserved things.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, December 12, 2016  

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