UFO Contemplation

Monday, February 27, 2017

The Horde of Non-Convincing Ufologists

Copyright 2017, InterAmerica, Inc.
Where are the UFO aficionados, ET believers, UFO agnostics, and UFO skeptics who make their UFO case convincing?

Stanton Friedman has been pushing the extraterrestrial slant for UFOs since time immemorial it seems. Has he convinced anyone, really convinced them?

Has anyone in the anti-ETH camp countered his views that have convinced most of that Stanton is wrong?

Robert Sheaffer, Tim Printy, and Donald Menzel or Philip Klass before them, have they made a bona fide skeptical case that resonates with UFO buffs?

The erudite French skeptic Gilles Fernandez has provided reams of UFO material that offsets the vivid views of UFO fanatics, but has he convinced any of them, or those of us on the fence, that his (Gilles’) views are right?

What about the occasional Lance Moody? Has he offered an air-tight rebuttal to any of the UFO hypotheses floating around in his tight milieu?

Did (or do) John Keel’s obtuse musings straighten out the UFO mess?

What about Jacques Vallee’s control agent or Jose Caravaca’s “external agent” (Distortion Theory); have either made a case that convinces anyone that UFOs are presented to us by something beyond us?

And what of Zoam Chomsky’s “UFOs” are nothing but hot air, hot air from blathering UFO addicts? Has he won converts?

Then there are the lesser lights in the UFO community, me among them, have any of them made a good case for or against the  prevailing UFO attempts at explanation?

My point? There is no one voice, or any voice, that has shown up in the UFO world who has made a convincing case, one way or another, about the phenomenon that many of us bedraggle or lives with, no one.

And I don’t expect a UFO messiah to show up any time soon.

RR

38 Comments:

  • Having done "debates" both oral and written for almost 55 years (concerning government regulatory policy), I am more than convinced that positions firmly held are never dislodged by argument. People can always say "yes, but..." and nothing really changes. But we can still put out challenges in some important UFO cases and hope that professional skeptics will be honest enough to say "I just don't know about that one." My challenge: Provide a conventional explanation for the burned grass roots in the Florida Scoutmaster case back in the 1950s.

    By Blogger Dominick, at Monday, February 27, 2017  

  • If the messengers are lacking, which I disagree from the skeptics point of view, then perhaps the subject in total must also lay at fault. The lack of any convincing evidence to sway the majority is the tell.

    Yet, let's not downplay the important works of the following:

    Tim Printy's masterful work on the RB-47 case.

    Lance Moody's work with the Roswell "slide" debunking, or if you prefer, torpedoing.

    Gilles Fernandez's work from a psycho-social aspect...illuminating for most.

    Zoam's "in your face" challenging with the facts approach...medicine taken strait up.

    All parts and pieces, but when combined they present compelling arguments which should be given due consideration.

    There are no ufology "messiahs", never was [that I could ever discern] and never will be. The story is growing colder by the day...a dying cult perhaps.

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Monday, February 27, 2017  

  • Listen fellows...

    I think there have been some putative explanations, but have they convinced?

    That's my point.....no one is convinced of anything.

    The phenomenon may be the cause of that or the inherent ineptness of the arguments.

    The story is, indeed, moribund, despite the attempts at life-support.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, February 27, 2017  

  • "My challenge: Provide a conventional explanation for the burned grass roots in the Florida Scoutmaster case back in the 1950s."

    I would said: a rare natural electrical phenomenon. Please note that a luminous sphere similar to ball lightning was also observed. Technically this is not a "conventional" explanation as such phenomena need to be researched and proven, but this is an alternative hypothesis to the surnatural ones. Florida is renowned for its strong thunderstorms, but the sky was clear at the time of the sighting, it seems.

    Regards,

    Jean


    By Blogger Rare phenomena lover, at Monday, February 27, 2017  

  • I know Facebook drives you nuts, but it is a good window into why the field is so stuck in a quagmire. God only knows how many people have and use Facebook accounts, but of those many millions, only a handful post information that is original or of some note. The rest just 'share' this original content. "Yeah, what HE said", seems to be their mantra. So, UFO reports follow this pattern. Someone posts a tale, lemmings uncritically follow it, and careful analysis and healthy skepticism get buried.

    So, sadly, I fear the 'Messiah' you're looking for is the internet. Which means you (we) are the fringe minority - victims of the tyranny of the masses.

    By Blogger Vince R. Ditrich, at Monday, February 27, 2017  

  • Vince....

    I get some delightful, educational material via Facebook, but my contingent of "friends -- news media people -- offer as much stupid stuff as some UFO people who move around the internet, leaving droppings of little worth.

    Your observation(s) about the UFO feeds on Facebook are spot on.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, February 27, 2017  

  • There has been evidence, of crashed craft, everywhere: [US. Russia.] just to mention a few, but Government agencies have scrupulously, cleaned up after the removal of such craft, and all you have left, are the REPORTS, and hear-say..
    Clean eh!..

    We will never have the evidence we want, because the powers that be, will not allow it, and is the reason, they get there first. Didn't they do a good job.... or did they?................?

    By Blogger Daniel, at Monday, February 27, 2017  

  • Crashed craft, everywhere?

    Those dorky aliens just don't know how to travel in space.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, February 27, 2017  

  • I don't think the human race does so well either...........

    By Blogger Daniel, at Monday, February 27, 2017  

  • "There has been evidence, of crashed craft, everywhere: [US. Russia.] just to mention a few, but Government agencies have scrupulously, cleaned up after the removal of such craft, and all you have left, are the REPORTS, and hear-say..
    Clean eh!.."

    It is then very funny that we spend billions of dollars to find life in the universe by building space telescopes, sending rovers to Mars and to study exoplanets when we already know the answers. It is also very funny that we spend other billions of dollars designing better rockets when we just have to reverse-engineer the crashed spaceships. If the alleged crashed alien spaceships stories are true, then we are assisting to the biggest waste of resources and money since the beginning of humanity.

    I consider this fact to be a strong argument against the reality of the crashed spaceships stories. Only conspirationists living in an "alternate reality" will argue against it.

    Regards,

    Jean

    By Blogger Rare phenomena lover, at Monday, February 27, 2017  

  • Dominick wrote: "Provide a conventional explanation for the burned grass roots in the Florida Scoutmaster case back in the 1950s."

    The late Karl Pflock wrote a piece about the case if you are interested or did not know. http://www.nicap.org/bhoax.htm

    Regards,

    Gilles.

    By Blogger Gilles Fernandez, at Tuesday, February 28, 2017  

  • Marvellous how the 'authorities' (of whatever country) always manage to clean up the debris after a UFO crash. Hence we, the public, can never handle the debris or analyse it in a lab. But presumably the 'authorities' have analysed it in numerous labs, and some of the analysts know all about it.

    But alas, they are sworn to secrecy and given death threats. Thus science can never learn the truth about the most important discovery of all time.

    At least that is what certain ufologists, such as Daniel above, would have us believe.

    70 years of UFOs and still the 'truth' eludes us.


    By Blogger cda, at Tuesday, February 28, 2017  

  • Hi Jean,

    I don't know if you remember some years back in the US. that: "2.3 Trillion dollars" went missing, and could not be accounted for. How could "2.3 Trillion dollars" not be account for? In my humble opinion, that is more than enough, to cover the money spent on all, that you've mentioned in your memo. There is much talk on the net, about a "Secret Space Program" from "reverse or back-engineering" of crashed craft, from elsewhere, and that NASA rocket technology, is only a front, as a distraction of what is really going on behind science. In other words, watch my left hand, while the right hand is doing somthing different! And yes! It can be understood, that Billions of dollars are spent, to keep people in the dark, from knowing what is really going on behind science...You can't tell your friends, without telling your enemy, so to speak:)..When people witness a UFO sighting, it is possible, it is from the "Secret Space Program" and not our ET visitors, as the Governments would have us think, but some maybe, who would know!?...

    Crashed craft everywhere:) is a huge place on Earth, and in "TIME" it adds up!...


    My opinion, on the burnt grass roots in the: "Florida Scoutmaster case, back in the 1950s" Is: Microwave radiation from that, which was above on that site. It is not likely that lightning would strike in the same place, were something was seen to be on that very spot?Lightning usually strikes on high points like,trees or high-ground
    and only on flat ground, if nothing else is around high enough to strike, but to strike in the same place,that something had been seen, is not likely in my view.....

    By Blogger Daniel, at Tuesday, February 28, 2017  

  • Good afternoon,

    To Daniel:
    "There is much talk on the net, about a "Secret Space Program" from "reverse or back-engineering" of crashed craft, from elsewhere, and that NASA rocket technology, is only a front, as a distraction of what is really going on behind science"

    Yes, on the net! But what about the reliability of these sources? Does that information comes from people who believe that we
    are controlled by reptilians or believe that we never went to the moon? See my remark about conspirationists who live in an "alternate reality".

    To Giiles:

    Thanks a lot for the link.

    The interesting point is at the end:

    "an electrical conductor, and assume that a something that was generating a powerful alternating magnetic field was hovering over the ground, and you can explain how the grass roots were charred. To get an alternating magnetic field, some type of electrical equipment was needed. Electricity--electrical sparks--the holes burned in the cap "by electric sparks."...
    ...If this...field can heat metal, why didn't everything the scoutmaster had that was metal get hot enough to burn him?... The answer--he wasn't under the UFO for more than a few seconds.... He did feel some heat, possibly radiating from the ground.

    ...[F]urther..., the scoutmaster repeatedly mentioned the unusual odor near the UFO. He described it as being "sharp" or "pungent." Ozone gas is "sharp" or "pungent." To quote from a chemistry book, "Ozone is prepared by passing air between two plates which are charged at a high electrical potential."... Breathing too high a concentration of ozone gas will also cause you to lose consciousness.

    Ruppelt presented his "speculation" to a RAND scientist, who "practically leaped at the idea." When Ruppelt explained he thought his theory "just happened to tie together the unanswered aspects" of the Desvergers case, the scientist replied in some exasperation, "What do you want? Does a UFO have to come in and land on your desk at ATIC?"
    So, was this the best hoax in UFO history, or, as UFO historian Jerome Clark put it, "the ufologist's worst nightmare: a real experience which happened to an unreliable individual"? "

    Again, due to the poor reliability of the witness, it is impossible to draw proper conclusions.

    Regards,

    Jean

    By Blogger Rare phenomena lover, at Tuesday, February 28, 2017  

  • > professional skeptics will be honest enough to say "I just don't know about that one."

    Who is paying the professional skeptics, Dominick?

    And skeptics often say "I don't know," all the way back to Socrates.

    So are you paying these professional strawmen you frequently trot out?

    By Blogger Terry the Censor, at Tuesday, February 28, 2017  

  • > "2.3 Trillion dollars" went missing

    Daniel, you info is wrong, ergo, your theory based on that info is wrong.

    Debunked: Rumsfeld says $2.3 Trillion missing from the Pentagon
    https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-rumsfeld-says-2-3-trillion-missing-from-the-pentagon.t165/


    By Blogger Terry the Censor, at Tuesday, February 28, 2017  

  • Thank you, Terry,

    Never the less, Yes! Rumsfeld did say: $2.3 Trillion was missing. The point being though, Where did it go missing too? and how, or why? Was this elaborate amount, removed from the Pentagon, if you will!? for space-exploration, within the "Secret Space Program"? I'm not saying it was used on this Program, but you have to admit it is a huge amount,adequate for Space-exploration, and much more!? Yes?.............

    By Blogger Daniel, at Tuesday, February 28, 2017  

  • I believe, we did go to the moon, just "NOT" the way NASA had us thinking...........

    By Blogger Daniel, at Tuesday, February 28, 2017  

  • > Never the less...Where did it go missing too?

    Clearly, Daniel, facts don't matter to your theories.

    By Blogger Terry the Censor, at Tuesday, February 28, 2017  

  • Terry,

    A theory, is not a matter of fact, it is a speculation, Hypothetically.............

    By Blogger Daniel, at Wednesday, March 01, 2017  

  • So we agree: you will cite facts whose truth or falsity is irrelevent to your theory.

    By Blogger Terry the Censor, at Wednesday, March 01, 2017  

  • Hello,

    (very side note).

    Well, I suggest you to go in the street and ask the people: Do you know or heard about "Pick all the individuals you mentioned by their name in this thread". Or Ray Palmer, Keyhoe, Scully, Däniken, Vallée, etc.

    After, do the same, but this time: Do you know or heard about "choose mythical cases or ufological terms like Roswell, the Phoenix lights, Soccoro, flying saucers, airships, flying triangles", etc.

    You will maybe realize the "hiatus" between protagonists of this field (ufology) and the UFO (myth in the good/sociological sens of the term).

    "The alien spacecraft have or are visiting us" as for long time "transcended" or doesnt really care or have as need to be vehiculated the memories of the protagonists who vehiculated or counter-argumented it...

    Regards,

    Gilles

    By Blogger Gilles Fernandez, at Wednesday, March 01, 2017  

  • My theory is shared with others, Terry, it is not just my theory!

    A FACT! "can be" DECEPTIVE! or within CORRUPTION!...Who's truth? is what your left with...

    The FACT, that the Earth was once thought to be FLAT, was a FACT, at that time, but now we all know the Earth is round, and that too, is a FACT!
    The "Inner-Earth theory" is believed by some, to be a FACT. Do you believe in that?
    Do you believe in the FACT that UFO actually do exist? Some do not believe in that FACT! Is your name really Terry, an actual FACT?.. don't answer that. I'm just making a point...When we're done with everyone's FACTs, we only are left with theory, shared by some, and some not!.. Your postings are appreciated by most, I'm sure..in some facts, not all...............

    By Blogger Daniel, at Wednesday, March 01, 2017  

  • If facts don't matter, Daniel, why did you site them to support your argument?

    By Blogger Terry the Censor, at Wednesday, March 01, 2017  

  • Look Terry,

    Facts ARE important to some people, right? What I'm saying, is not all facts can be trusted as accurate or truthful.. You are going around in circles, be more pacific, in your question..............

    By Blogger Daniel, at Thursday, March 02, 2017  

  • it might be better, if instead of conspiracy theories, false flag beliefs, ufos, bigfoot, alien hybrid babies, and on infinitum, people thought about and acted on the "real life, life of life" (to quote Katya) things might improve. peoples lives might actually improve, and the world could be a safer better more respected place.

    By Blogger patty gallagher, at Friday, March 03, 2017  

  • Putting aside arguments about whether they exist or not, I can understand why science is reluctant to study ufo's. Science being mainly weights measure experiments and record keeping, ufo's only leave record keeping. Not much traction for a scientist. What I don't understand, is millions of people believe they see things that science claims doesn't exist, and they seem to have no interest in studying that! Now there seems to be a phenomenon You can get your hands on, and science is content to say "millions of people hallucinate lights and objects in the sky" and just let it go. I find that stranger than flying saucers.

    By Blogger esp.philbrook, at Friday, March 03, 2017  

  • @esp

    Science does not say "millions of people hallucinate lights and objects in the sky." There are lights in the sky (every clear night).

    What might be difficult to study is why people assume these lights are extraterrestrial craft instead of airplane and helicopter lights, RC gliders, chinese lanterns, Venus, meteors, etc., though some have tried to do so. I recommend you start with David Simpson, Conclusions from Controlled UFO Hoaxes (2005).

    > I can understand why science is reluctant to study ufo's

    Here are a few more academic papers on UFOs that I have read (not a comprehensive list, by a long shot. These are PDFs I have in just one folder; the list does not include many articles and book chapters I photocopied, or have yet to print out). Most of these were published in academic journals or were presented at academic conferences.

    Abrassart, 2015, UFO phenomenon and psychopathology: a case study
    Bader, 2003, Supernatural Support Groups: Who Are the UFO Abductees and Ritual-Abuse Survivors
    Ball, 2010, UFO-Abduction Narratives and the Technology of Tradition
    Barbeito, 2005, Body as Battleground in Accounts of Alien Abduction
    Bartholomew, 1991, Quest for Transcendence, An Ethnography of UFOs in America
    Bartholomew et-al, 1991, UFO Abductees and Contactees Psychopathology or Fantasy Proneness
    Bynum, 1993, KIDNAPPED BY AN ALIEN: Tales of UFO Abductions
    Clancy et-al, 2002, Memory Distortion in People Reporting Abduction by Aliens
    Cowlishaw, 2004, Aliens in the Academy
    Cross, 2004, The Flexibility of Scientific Rhetoric: A Case Study of UFO Researchers
    Dégh, 1977, UFOs and How Folklorists Should Look at Them
    Dewan, 2006, "A Saucerful of Secrets": An Interdisciplinary Analysis of UFO Experiences
    Drysdale, 2008, Alienated Histories, Alienating Futures: Raciology and Missing Time in The Interrupted Journey
    Eghigian, 2014, A transatlantic buzz, flying saucers, extraterrestrials and America in postwar Germany
    Eghigian, 2015, Making UFOs make sense
    Enns, 1999, Alien Abductions: A Return to the Medieval
    Flaherty, 2010, These Are They: ET-Human Hybridization and the New Daemonology
    Forrest, 2008, Alien abduction: a medical hypothesis
    French et-al, 2008, Psychological aspects of the alien contact experience
    Hackett, 1948, The Flying Saucer: A Manufactured Concept
    Hague, 2011, Before Abduction, The Contactee Narrative of the 1950s
    Kelley-Romano, 2006, Mythmaking in Alien Abduction Narratives
    Laycock, 2012, Epistemology of Sexual Trauma in Witches' Sabbaths, Satanic Ritual Abuse, and Alien Abduction Narratives
    McNally, 2012, Explaining “Memories” of Space Alien Abduction and Past Lives
    Otgaar, et-al, 2009, Abducted by a UFO: Prevalence Information Affects Young Children’s False Memories for an Implausible Event
    Partridge, 2004, Alien demonology
    Patry and Pelletier, 2001, Extraterrestrial Beliefs and Experiences: An Application of the Theory of Reasoned Action
    Peckham, 1950, Flying Saucers as Folklore
    Sanarov, 1981, On the Nature and Origin of Flying Saucers and Little Green Men
    Schwarz, 1968, UFOs: Delusion or Dilemma
    Stothers, 2007, Unidentified Flying Objects in Classical Antiquity
    Stupple and Dashti, 1977, Flying Saucers and Multiple Realities
    White, 1994, Alien Nation: The hidden obsession of UFO literature: race in space
    Wittmann, 1968, Flying Saucers or Flying Shields

    Happy reading.

    By Blogger Terry the Censor, at Friday, March 03, 2017  

  • Wow, thanks, maybe I should have phrased it differently. But apparently I am getting a little behind in my reading. I think I'll start with Stupple n Dashti. You can never have too many realities.

    By Blogger esp.philbrook, at Saturday, March 04, 2017  

  • There is no one voice, or any voice, that has shown up in the UFO world who has made a convincing case, one way or another, about the phenomenon

    By Blogger Shamus, at Saturday, March 04, 2017  

  • Hi Shamus,

    Suggestion; Google, if you have time:...[The Disclosure Project National Press Club Conference - May 9th. 2001 - Headed by Dr.Steven Grear, pushing for Free Energy].....ALSO

    [ National Press Club, Citizen Hearing on UFO. Disclosure April 29th.2013 - Headed by Steven Bassett. A Political Activist, pushing for Disclosure]...

    Watch all those videos if you can, and then see what you think. What are you missing?............

    By Blogger Daniel, at Saturday, March 04, 2017  

  • "Headed by Dr.Steven Grear, pushing for Free Energy"

    This guy organizes skywatching nights where each attendee has to pay several thousands dollars. He also organizes field trips to alleged UFO hotspots and asks tens of thousands dollars for each person who joins him in the expedition. Of course, nobody ever reported seeing anything.

    Sorry to break your dreams, but Steven Greer is a charlatan:

    http://www.theangryufologist.us/dr-steven-greer-fraud-heres-proof/

    As I mentioned before in this thread: Daniel, check your sources carefully.

    Regards,

    Jean


    By Blogger Rare phenomena lover, at Saturday, March 04, 2017  

  • Daniel, you mentioned Steven Bassett,

    Unfortunately, he is also not very credible:

    http://www.theangryufologist.us/steven-bassett-wants-ufo-disclosure/

    Regards,

    Jean

    By Blogger Rare phenomena lover, at Saturday, March 04, 2017  

  • We disregard your comments, because the focus, is on the witnesses reports, in the videos, and that has always been controversial, with people labeling others, such as what you are doing now.....

    The witnesses, from what I could see, were good upstanding citizens, in positions of trust, with compelling reports of what they had experienced.You would put your life in their hands, such as Pilots, Doctors & others. These are not the kind of minds that would make up these stories,they are serious minded people in responsible positions of trust, and tell their story with confidence..Witnesses are the focus!!............

    By Blogger Daniel, at Sunday, March 05, 2017  

  • Evidence, Daniel, not off-the-shelf, well-worn rhetoric.

    By Blogger Terry the Censor, at Sunday, March 05, 2017  

  • It depends on what side of the fence your on, Terry! when it comes to the so-called evidence, you speak of!?...

    This whole discussion on UFO is a well-worn rhetoric, on the facts & evidence. There is no evidence, other than reports,for 70yrs.now!?Some say there is evidence
    of crashed craft in varying places, only that its been cleaned up, leaving no evidence, what so ever, other than the reports. So what do you make of this?...

    Cover-up, or not!?............

    By Blogger Daniel, at Monday, March 06, 2017  

  • @Daniel

    I would say to UFO proponents, "Give us evidence, not excuses."

    By Blogger Terry the Censor, at Tuesday, March 07, 2017  

  • Political deception is in deed, a bad excuse, knowing there is no "evidence" of UFO except, for those whom have seen them, and report!...

    We all would like evidence, "especially" those who have not seen! Keep your eye on the sky, Terry, you never know your luck................

    By Blogger Daniel, at Wednesday, March 08, 2017  

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