UFO Conjectures

Sunday, October 20, 2019

The Betty and Barney Hill “sexual” encounter

Copyright 2019, InterAmerica, Inc.

National Geographic, last night [10/19/19], presented a raft of UFO oriented programming, one of them on Roswell (where the Mogul explanation prevailed), one about Area 51, and one about the History of UFOs, et cetera.
In a recap of the 1961 Betty and Barney Hill alleged capture by aliens from outer space, the program played part of the hypnosis tapes during the Hill’s sessions with psychiatrist Benjamin Simon.

A few things from the sessions were unsettling to hear, one being Betty calling out for her captors to “take it out” – referring to a “needle” she said was inserted in her naval.

Another was the information that Barney had semen extracted from him.

National Geographic also showed Betty’s torn dress, with its purple stain.

There is little doubt that the Hills experienced something awful and had a traumatic aftermath because of it.

But I conjecture that the couple was assaulted on their way home from their trip, Betty Hill raped and Barney subjected to a sexual assault; the dress being evidence of the criminal act. (That the dress was never examined forensically is unfortunate.)

Who committed the act is left open to speculation, of course, but that a medical examiner or a more psychoanalytic psychiatrist wasn’t employed to speculate on Betty’s “take it out” plea or Barney’s ejaculatory episode is also unfortunate, as the session tapes are grist for a sexual overlay of the claimed “alien kidnapping.”

The Hill “incident” has been covered extensively and others have also suggested something “gang related” as the cause of their trauma.

But in a rush to pin the assault on biologically interested extra- terrestrials falls flat, despite the “star map” insert to the story.

The whole Hill event should be looked at from a criminal perspec- tive: it was a sexual assault, by persons unknown. More than that is science-fiction.



  • No more shared psychosis? I'm not sure how this new hypothesis is to make sense of the consciously recalled purported UFO sighting, prior to the hypnotic meddling.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at Sunday, October 20, 2019  

  • "Purported" is a key word in your comment Matty.

    There also are new observations about psychological anomalies.

    You're up to speed on them, yes? I'll be presenting correctives shortly of your views, especially about Folie a deux.

    Stand by, buddy boy.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, October 20, 2019  

  • "The whole Hill event should be looked at from a criminal perspec- tive: it was a sexual assault, by persons unknown. More than that is science-fiction."

    Agree with this theory, Rich.

    Just thought I'd back you up there - since no one else has.

    By Blogger Dvelys, at Sunday, October 20, 2019  

  • Thanks Dvelys:

    We smart people have to stick together.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, October 20, 2019  

  • @Rich - At a time when the notion of 'alien abduction' was practically unknown in the culture (indeed Betty & Barney Hill's experience is generally regarded as the first reported case to come to wider public attention) why and how would such a peculiar (and at the time, unique) concept come to form the basis of a purportedly shared 'false memory', constructed to conceal a 'sexual attack' (you allege), and why wouldn't some other, more mundane (and believable) scenario not have emerged?

    Also, under hypnosis (conducted by Dr. Benjamin Simon, of whom it is a matter of record, had no prior knowledge of the exact nature of the Hill's 'traumatic experience' before the separate, individual sessions began) wouldn't these false 'masking memories' soon betray themselves for what they were and collapse once the clinician began scrutinizing their experiences in-depth?

    Dr. Simon stressed the multiple sessions with Betty and Barney were always conducted separately, neither could overhear one another's recollections and at the end of each session, he 'reinstated amnesia'.

    How can two individuals, claiming to have undergone the same specific, traumatic incident, then recount separately under hypnosis, the same supposedly subconsciously 'fabricated' corroborative experience where 'reinstated amnesia' would make any 'comparing of notes' on this alleged 'falsehood', impossible?

    I understand 'trauma' can in some instances lead to 'memory-deficits' and experiments have shown how the creation of 'false memories' can be achieved through repeated positive/negative verbal & linguistic reinforcement which can influence and alter subjective recollections of specific details of an 'arranged' but nevertheless 'real-world' event (such as the relative speed and colour of the vehicles involved in a 'staged' traffic collision for instance) but this is a far cry from the wholesale creation of a detailed and corroborative account of an entirely 'fictive' event.

    Surely it would be impossible without the collusion of the clinician involved to deliberately construct such a detailed and corroborative account of a phenomenon unknown to Simon (and the majority of other people) at the time and of which he asserts he had no prior knowledge nor vested interest in delineating?

    P.A. Budinger (who undertook an analysis of Betty's dress in 2003 - full analysis report here: https://www.theblackvault.com/casefiles/analysis-dress-worn-betty-hill-september-19-1961-abduction-new-hampshire/) notes that whilst 'the analysis did not confirm an alien presence, it did support her story of the event' in particular, her apparent physical struggle with her captives which resulted in rips/tearing on one side of the dress and their alleged 'difficulties with the zipper' which led to the dress 'ending up on the floor “in a heap”.

    Budinger further notes the 'pink stains were most prominent where the aliens purportedly touched the dress' and 'the lining on the right side of the dress was torn from the waist to the hem' with the 'top of the zipper...ripped'.

    The analysis is largely 'inconclusive', noting the presence of some 'externally applied' 'ester-like' oily substance with an acidic pH value and some 'water-soluble' naturally occurring proteins, none of which appear to have been conclusively identified.

    By Blogger DrDee, at Sunday, October 20, 2019  

  • Interestingly, there is some evidence of a human genome present on the dress that derives from neither Betty nor Barney's genetic material. The sample is an 'amplified' partial mitochondrial sequence deemed to be of the same genetic structure as the 'Hmong-Mien Speaking Populations in East Asia'.

    [I'll refrain here from raising the spectre of the oft-reported pale, hairless and generally 'Asiatic' appearance of the 'otherworldly' type of Meninblack (usually not the guys in military uniforms) check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OazmYsrF3HE and the Asiatic 'almond-shaped' eyes of the diminutive 'Greys' - just sayin'!] ;)

    I don't buy that the Hills experienced something that whilst evidently 'traumatic' was nevertheless 'mundane' in origin (and again, I don't rule out the deliberate involvement of your 'brave' Homeland 'Security' operatives in this - they've definitely got FORM!)

    I also don't accept that a detailed and corroborated chronology of events relating to an allegedly shared 'real-world' experience (and their genuinely distressing and nightmarish responses whilst reliving this supposedly 'non-existent' event) could be so convincing and consistent were this some type of 'screen' or 'masking' memory.

    Surely any clinician worth his salt would have probed further to 'get to the bottom' of this seemingly incredible and irrational account, especially one of whom it is repeatedly and steadfastly claimed (including his own assertions of the same) that he had no 'agenda' to push, nor any prior knowledge of, or interest in 'UFOs' or the 'Abduction Phenomena' particularly at the time (the early 60s) when such things were, as previously stated, practically unheard of.

    By Blogger DrDee, at Sunday, October 20, 2019  

  • As the originally sceptical John Mack, late Prof. of Psychiatry at Harvard, noted - "When I first heard about this phenomenon in 1990, I was very doubtful. I thought it must be some kind of mental illness."

    One of the aspects of the phenomenon which convinced Mack something was genuinely taking place was the unchanging and consistent nature of the 'abductions' almost to the point of boring repetitiveness whereas, by contrast, truly delusional fantasies invariably display unique, personal elements that are characteristic hallmarks of the individual 'psyche' experiencing them.

    None of this appears evident in 'abduction' cases. Indeed, Mack noted some key peculiarities of the 'abduction' phenomenon (whatever it is) which are:
    1) 'Experiencers' are not suffering from delusions or any other discernable symptoms of psychosis.
    2) The 'abduction' is experienced as and is largely indistinguishable from, other 'real-world' events and
    3) The 'abduction narrative' rarely, if ever, differs to any significant degree.

    Like Mack, I can't accept the Hills experience was just a straightforward (if indeed, there is such a thing) 'delusion' or even a consistently detailed, corroborative shared 'false memory' masking some other traumatic event. Again, as Mack suggests, surely Betty & Barney's own individual 'masking memory' would be a psychic construct peculiar to them, not one with a shared, detailed narrative and chronology that remained consistent and unaltered even under forensically investigative hypnosis.

    Anyway, make of it what thou wilt (as I'm sure you already have!) :)

    By Blogger DrDee, at Sunday, October 20, 2019  

  • DrDee:

    As usual, you stun with your insights and references.

    I don't doubt that the Hill's had an odd experience that turned traumatic (yes, turned) and developed its own story-line, some of it fictive in nature.

    Unfortunately, we're well past the time and event, so probing further seems futile.

    Two things:

    I liked Betty Hill. I liked when she talked and recounted her "story." It seemed truthful, to me.

    (I got to talk with John Mack shortly before he was killed by that accident. He contacted me, thinking my MediaWatch was the MediaWatch that slammed his published book. It wasn't of course. We ended up having a few e-mails, which are on a hard drive here somewhere. And we shared one phone call. We did talk about abductions, me telling him my trepidation about the alien aspect; he filling me in on his belief that there seemed to be something tenable about them.)


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Sunday, October 20, 2019  

  • Rich,

    You've correctly observed that perhaps the most ridiculous thing about the Hill account is the "book" allegedly encountered on the craft. The idea of highly advanced space-faring aliens using paper books is farcical. Such details lead one to think that if there's anything to abductions, as well as many CE3s, beyond psychopathology, hoaxing, etc., then it is paranormal as opposed to extraterrestrial in nature.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at Sunday, October 20, 2019  

  • Nothing happened to the Hills that wasn't the result of their own foolishness. In their poorly planned trip they ran out of money, couldn't afford to eat much less pay for another motel night's stay and so were hungry and sleep deprived as they beat it back home from Canada.

    Betty was completely predisposed to the flying-saucer myth even claiming in her confabulation that when she saw the ambiguous light in the sky she immediately thought she might be seeing a "flying saucer" since her sister had claimed to have seen a "flying saucer" years before in the 1950s.

    This is much like the sleep deprived "UFO" believer JAL Captain Terauchi referencing the Mantell case to traffic control as he has his own "flying saucer" scare over Alaska! It couldn't be more obvious what is happening in these cases: Hardcore "UFO" belief precedes a "sighting." Believing is Seeing!

    The normally pliable Barney was simply pulled into and joined in Betty's ongoing confabulation that went on for years in repeated tellings, expansions and enhancements. So it's no wonder that after years of this mutual confabulation that they would tell basically the same story even if apart.

    The "alien abduction" trope had existed in popular-culture science-fiction fantasies for decades. And Betty and Barney's years of confabulation had finally recreated and included nearly every aspect of the classic 1953 movie "Invaders from Mars" only in an even more nightmarish version of a film that itself is "all a dream." (Funny stuff, huh?)

    Finally in the hypnosis sessions, where he had described "the leader" as a "NAZI" with black hair and a leather jacket, Barney suddenly switched to the distinctly different face and unmistakable "eyes that speak" motif of the Bifrost alien from an episode of "the Outer Limits" that had aired less than two weeks before the session. Betty objected but Barney insisted and had his way in the final version of their joint confabulation.

    Every real-world bit of their tale, lights in the sky are just airplanes and an aircraft warning beacon can easily become a "flying saucer" to those entirely predisposed to the myth.

    And if DNA analysis of the stains on Betty's dress showed it was some sort of SE Asian--which I very much doubt--but IF it does, then maybe Betty got some fish sauce on her dress. Or the dress had been cleaned at a Chinese laundry. Hahaha! (That's how seriously I take such suggestions.)

    The ET book shown to Betty is a scene straight out of IFM, and the star-map is worthless.

    Nothing happened to Hills that was in the least bit ET. They made the whole thing up over years!

    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Monday, October 21, 2019  

  • @Zoam - Again, with the 'ET' nonsense *yawn* and non-evidentially based suppositions. (Betty's dress was apparently new, had not been laundered and was never cleaned again subsequently - it hung untouched in a wardrobe for decades)

    Oh and before we go any further, I've often 'run out of money, couldn't afford to eat much less pay for another motel night's stay' - it's called unjust, exploitative 'capitalist economics' and in the UK many people, including professional nursing staff and other supposedly 'gainfully employed' individuals are becoming reliant on food-banks as they are technically destitute, yet supposedly in 'full-time' work, and on 'wages' which increasingly don't even cover their basic living costs. A friend of mine is a full-time, homecare nursing assistant who works 6 days a week for up to 60 hours, yet their take-home wage is so ludicrously low, they are entitled to the same amount again in State Benefit 'top-ups' because their earnings alone don't provide them enough to live on.

    Perhaps the Hills were just 'poor', (like Calvin Parker, Betty Cash and Vickie Landrum) which in your eyes seems to render such individuals not only 'unworthy of your regard' but also some sort of 'loser', 'lower order' who are seemingly beneath contempt, judging by your previous pejorative comments on what you perceive to be their social standing and status (and thus somehow, their credibility as witnesses).

    If the Hills had 'run out of money' due to 'bad planning' why didn't they just withdraw some more money from their bank accounts? It's not as if they were stuck in the backwoods of Kyrgystan or somewhere is it?

    I think something strange happened to the Hills and if they'd entirely constructed this 'fiction', it would surely have been a simple task to 'deconstruct' this once Simon had regressed them back to the date in question and asked them to relive exactly what happened.

    Their shared, corroborated narrative emerged from the initial separate sessions, the exact details of which both were initially unaware - a state which Dr. Simon maintained for some weeks by 'reinstating amnesia'.

    Obviously, later on, the two were made aware of each other's account but that doesn't explain their initial corroboration or how they were able to maintain a willed, 'conscious' adherence to this supposed joint 'fiction' whilst in an induced and 'uninhibited state' with significantly reduced capacity for 'conscious volition', both states which presumably, would facilitate the emergence of the uninhibited 'truth' of the actual event which was the stated aim of the sessions in the first place.

    Interestingly, Dr. Simon (contrary to popular belief) NEVER accepted that the Hills actually experienced an 'alien abduction' but also stressed they were neither 'lying' nor 'deliberately hoaxing' this narrative either so SOMETHING happened to them and both genuinely believed their accounts to be truthful and NOT the result of some deliberate 'confabulation' as you put it.

    By Blogger DrDee, at Monday, October 21, 2019  

  • The 'book' and 'star-map' are indeed peculiar and incongruous elements (common to many 'High Strangeness' encounters) which of course raises the question 'why would a 'high-tech' intergalactic 'spacecraft' have paper maps and books?'

    It wouldn't, of course, any more than such a 'spacecraft' would have an apparently 'low-ceilinged, brick-built basement' as Whitley Strieber describes often being in during his experiences.

    Whatever these anomalous experiences are, they're almost certainly NOT 'extra-terrestrial' in origin.

    This doesn't then mean something strange and real didn't happen to these people (as both Mack & Simon note), people who invariably are neither prone to nor have any prior history of constructing elaborate fantasies in their everyday lives nor are they the subjects of delusional psychosis.

    By Blogger DrDee, at Monday, October 21, 2019  

  • @Matty - I agree entirely!

    By Blogger DrDee, at Monday, October 21, 2019  

  • @Rich - Mack came across as a thoughtful and intelligent chap whose academic credentials obviously made many rethink their previously unquestioning acceptance of the dominant discourse 'verdict' on such matters.

    His untimely passing was a great loss and his measured and considered wisdom is sadly missed.

    By Blogger DrDee, at Monday, October 21, 2019  

  • DD:

    He was the complete gentleman (with me) and I was deeply saddened by his untimely death.

    Here's a link to an earlier posting here about Mack, with an aside about Will Bueche, a cohort of Mack and a board member of the John Mack Institute:


    Will is an "experiencer" and such a straight arrow guy, brilliant and "normal," that he gives me and others pause when it comes to alien abductions. He is an example of "proof" for some.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, October 21, 2019  

  • Rich,

    I had no knowledge of Will Bueche prior to seeing your comment above. I can't find much at all about his experience(s) anywhere else online, and your posts that include his name don't provide details. Is there a writeup about his "abduction(s)" anywhere?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at Monday, October 21, 2019  

  • Matty:

    I don't recall seeing any account of his "abduction."

    I think, maybe, his "experience" was mentioned at UFO UpDates long ago.

    I've exchanged e-mails with him, mostly about John Mack.

    I'll scrounge my various saved UFO files to see if there is anything in them about his claim.


    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Monday, October 21, 2019  

  • "Dee" says, "Again, with the 'ET' nonsense"

    That's why it's called the "alien abduction" syndrome. Betty thought she was seeing a "flying saucer" that is by definition in popular culture a spacecraft from another world piloted by extraterrestrials, ET. Okay, "Dee?" ET is what the witnesses believed, not something I'm adding.

    The stains on Betty's old dress are worthless as evidence of anything.

    Then "Dee" says, "If the Hills had 'run out of money' due to 'bad planning' why didn't they just withdraw some more money from their bank accounts? It's not as if they were stuck in the backwoods of Kyrgystan or somewhere is it?"

    Actually it was as if they were in some remote location because they were! And Barney stated that he was determined to make the marathon drive through the wilderness all the way home to Portsmouth.

    East from Montreal to the US and State of Maine border and then south through New Hampshire and the White Mts is forest with an occasional small town. It was late night when nothing would be open anyway. And in the year 1961 few people in the US had credit cards and they were limited to use in bank systems in metro areas. There were no debit cards or ATMs in 1961. The only thing they might have had was a check. And no one was going to accept a check in the wilderness of Vermont in the middle of the night.

    So there's no way they could just "withdraw some more money from their bank accounts" as you so naively suggest.

    Ignorant of the facts of the Hill's story apparently, "Dee" says, "Their shared, corroborated narrative emerged from the initial separate sessions, the exact details of which both were initially unaware...."

    No! They had been confabulating, talking to each other and telling and retelling, enhancing and expanding their "flying saucer/alien abduction" story for friends and public groups for TWO YEARS before the sessions. Geesh!

    Finally, he says, "SOMETHING happened to them and both genuinely believed their accounts to be truthful and NOT the result of some deliberate 'confabulation' as you put it."

    No, "Dee." The definition of confabulation does not include deliberation, these two troubled people did genuinely believe the "flying saucer/alien abduction" fairy tale that they had made up over the course of two years.

    "Confabulation, false memory, or less often pseudomemory is a term in cognitive psychology defined as a recollection of something that never happened."


    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Tuesday, October 22, 2019  

  • @Zoam - Deliberately NEVER mentioned 'debit cards', 'credit cards' or 'ATMs' did I? Then you patronisingly 'point this out' like it's some sort of revelation. I said withdraw money from a BANK ACCOUNT!

    As I also said - if they'd known they were running out of money they could have arranged to visit a bank (which would OBVIOUSLY be in a populated area) beforehand (they were both in full-time employment), obviously not in the middle of the fucking forest on the drive home ffs!

    I'm completely familiar with the Hills case - you just seem to pull convenient 'facts' out to back up your agenda, like the 'fact' the Nimitz objects were 'explained' 15 years ago, cos the 'skeptic' sites say so - LIES!

    'They had been confabulating, talking to each other and telling and retelling, enhancing and expanding their "flying saucer/alien abduction" story for friends and public groups for TWO YEARS before the sessions. Geesh!'

    Ok, where's your evidence for this? I referred to Dr. Simon's own take on it (who wasn't a 'believer') and the forensic analysis of Betty's dress - to what sources are you referring? - and don't give me links to 'skeptic' sites who as we've all seen - just blatantly make shit up.

    I want sources and NOT the agenda-skewed skeptic 'confabulation' type of 'evidence' which you're fond of supplying.

    By Blogger DrDee, at Tuesday, October 22, 2019  

  • It's potentially significant that the Hills were awake for an unusually long time before their experience. Sleep deprivation can cause bizarre and vivid visual hallucinations. Nonetheless, sleep deprivation typically must be far more severe than what the Hills experienced to cause such hallucinations: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6048360/. The apparent shared quality of the experience would not have a straightforward explanation even if one were to invoke hallucinations from sleep deprivation.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at Wednesday, October 23, 2019  

  • The fact is that the Hills, in their poor planning, failed to visit their bank and withdraw cash and left for Niagara Falls with about $70, which was exhausted by the time they were in Montreal. My point was that in 1961 there was no way for them to access their bank account until they were back in Portsmouth. And Barney knew that.

    So your question, "If the Hills had 'run out of money' due to 'bad planning' why didn't they just withdraw some more money from their bank accounts?" makes no sense.

    The vacation was in September 1961, their Simon sessions began in January 1964, over TWO YEARS later. The chronology is well established. Betty and Barney had plenty of time to confabulate their flying saucer/alien abduction nightmare by talking to each other, talking to investigators, and in private and public "UFO" talks before their hypnosis sessions with Simon.

    It took quite some time for Barney to accept Betty's contention that they had been abducted by aliens in a flying saucer. And it's significant that in the sessions Barney changed the appearance of the aliens from NAZIs with black hair, big noses and leather jackets to the kabuki-mask face of the Bifrost alien with the unique "eyes that speak" motif from an episode of "The Outer Limits" that had just aired.

    Barney screamed, "He's speaking to me with his eyes!"

    >> Confabulation is a memory error defined as the production of fabricated, distorted, or misinterpreted memories about oneself or the world, without the conscious intention to deceive. People who confabulate present incorrect memories ranging from "subtle alterations to bizarre fabrications", and are generally very confident about their recollections, despite contradictory evidence.<<


    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Wednesday, October 23, 2019  

  • Sleep deprivation and other stressful factors set the psychological condition in which the entirely disposed Betty and compliant Barney began to create their "flying saucer" fantasy from mundane stimuli, a mere ambiguous light that Betty immediately insisted was a "flying saucer." And then it was over more than two years of confabulation that became what after-the-fact is judged "the apparent shared quality of the experience."

    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Wednesday, October 23, 2019  

  • @Zoam - You're avoiding the issue again (as per usual). I want a credible, factual source for this assertion:

    'They had been confabulating, talking to each other and telling and retelling, enhancing and expanding their "flying saucer/alien abduction" story for friends and public groups for TWO YEARS before the sessions. Geesh!'

    By Blogger DrDee, at Thursday, October 24, 2019  

  • @Zoam - also if, as you allege, they had been 'enhancing and expanding' this 'story' for friends and public groups over the preceding two years (which sounds like an accusation of 'deliberate fabrication') what on earth would the motivation be for them to then visit a clinical practitioner in order to try and learn exactly what went on that night (via hypnosis sessions) which would undoubtedly uncover the 'fictive' aspects of this 'story' you accuse them of inventing and adding to, once they were regressed?

    If they wanted to maintain the credibility of their 'story', this would make no rational sense and Dr. Simon himself concluded the Hills were neither 'lying' nor 'deliberately hoaxing' their accounts.

    By Blogger DrDee, at Thursday, October 24, 2019  

  • 'But answer, came there none...'

    By Blogger DrDee, at Sunday, October 27, 2019  

  • I don't think I've ever avoided an issue, on anything. I've just been doing other things over a long weekend, like enjoying my real-world friends that I've known for decades.

    You seem to fail to comprehend the nature of confabulation. Believe what you like. The Hills' story is utterly unbelievable and is wholly explicable in simple terms. It was a flying-saucer fantasy they created together over the course of two years. None of it ever really happened. It's just a STORY without one bit of veracious evidence.

    Again, nearly every bit of their story was taken directly or was greatly influenced by 1953's "Invaders from Mars"--though changed, as if in a dream. Betty's dreams. These were two very troubled people who were entirely predisposed to the "UFO" myth.

    They visited a doctor for help in dealing with Betty's flying-saucer fantasies and got better. Even if they both still believed their story, they had "talked it out."

    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Monday, October 28, 2019  

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